06-11-2003 19:42									#1
	This is ridiculous. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So?

Who's left?

We gonna play this out?

I am in for the long haul. But let me clue you in, boys and girls... I am NOT one of our insanely great players. I'm pretty f*cking good, prolly the next tier down, but I don;t have the attention (or the time) to do everything right. AAAANNNDDD, as Shiber pointed out, we've been making DUMB mistakes. The point here is that team effort, especially given the quality of our membership, should produce outstanding if not *unbeatable* gameplay.

Is the Zip thing I've been doing counter-productive? Is it the public forum thing? Is it just burn-out?

What bugs me is that the current in-game situation is well nigh DIRE, and thus a challenge for all of us... a challenge that I would have thought engaging to us all.

Fer Chrissakes, faced with this in SP I'd be on the edge of my seat!

We are friggin' GATHERING STORM!! I don't know about you guys, but as far as I can STILL tell we are the best group of Civ3 players in the world... yeah, I have the same misgivings as Nathan, that it is just a game, but SO WHAT, it is our chosen hobby and passion... and, that being the case, we should KICK *SS!!

* Theseus is getting seriously worked up

The Civ world is about to be invigorated. C3C looks awesome. People are going to jump onto the I-net... and many (not as many as I'd like) will end up at 'poly. When they get here, I want them to know about the PTWDG, and know that GS is the creme de la creme!!

D*mn it!!

Our forum being dead is INEXCUSABLE! We have so much to do... building, war, diplo, etc.

Sorry to say it, but we have been getting smacked around... I am embarassed beyond words. Further, we are being totally outmaneuvered... I have no idea what nastiness awaits.

ARE YOU OK WITH THAT??!!

I am not.

	06-11-2003 19:58									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm here, Theseus. I always will be, no matter what I may say in public. I will chime in my advice as needed. But I'm reluctant to play turns right now, because we have war and most jobs to be done are military. Playing by orders sucks, I just fear again to misinterpret something. So I leave the playing for those in charge for the military. If my time allows, I will take over again in the next phase of economic buildup.

	06-11-2003 20:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm still around, not that I've ever been able to contribute that much in details. I don't see the save (and don't have time to anyway, except on an extremely irregular basis) so the amount I can do to help in planning this war is pretty minimal.

BTW shouldn't we have some info from RP by now, since they've played their turn. Or is it idling in the inbox of somebody who isn't around?

	06-11-2003 20:57									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As the team newbie I'm cagey about too much making a fool of myself whilst in the company of experienced, seasoned GS-ers - except that most of the team seem to have disappeared.

Yes, we need a show of hands to see who is ready, willing and able. FWIW, my hand is up, but if those senior players who can be active could assemble a leadership structure, it might help reinvigorate this dying team.

	06-11-2003 21:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'm ready and willing.

I can do diplo stuff as I like that best, but I need instructions on what to do. And perhaps some sort of overall aims/policy.

I spoke to BF briefly in IRC a few days ago when he had recieved the turn but not played it. He confirmed that no cities had changed hands or been disbanded, and that there was a ND musketman visible. I can probably get some screen shots and turn reports from him if the save doesn't get here first.

On a side note there are now 2 members of team ND in team MAST who I seem to be getting on ok with. I don't know how much they figure in ND but I think it's a good point of contact.

	06-11-2003 21:40									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Some of those "dumb mistakes" are my fault too. As your Co-General, I've been involved in our troop movements just like you, and I can think of a couple of mistakes I've made right off the top of my head.

I am also not one of our very best players, and my attention to detail is one of my primary weaknesses. That's hurting us.

I'll keep trying Theseus. But every time I make a tactical recommendation, I have a sinking feeling that I'm missing something, and a couple of times now it's been true. We are, in fact, in deep and serious ****. The Bobian (mis)adventure isn't going well at all, and we're falling behind in tech. We need to resolve this conflict one way or the other and relatively soon. We have been outmaneuvered, repeatedly. Some of that is the 3-move UUs, but some of it is due to our own mistakes.

I think I see this thread for what it is (a cry for help, from those who have gone silent), and I have been feeling the very same way.

-Arrian

	06-11-2003 21:57									#7
	I'm in AND some thoughts/ questions Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Much like Cort Haus, I was very reluctant to step forward too much. This is partially due to RL and partially due to the fact that I've never played an MP Civ 3 game before. Nevertheless, I refuse to let the hard work of others fall to ruin. I'm willing to do what I can.

(That said, I'm out of the country for part of the week of 11/16, so not sure how useful I'll be after this turn.)

I agree with OPD that some form of overarching policy is needed. Here are my thoughts about topics which I've heard snippets about since I came here. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. (All is based strictly on the screenshot Theseus has provided over the past two turns and the discussions here.)

Current Situation:

- Fighting war with both ND and GoW. Southern front is a meat grinder, with little hope of a decisive change in either direction. All we can do there is lose or stand still.

- Looking at the map, GS control of a significant portion of Bob is critical to being able to win the game.

- Lego's position/ role in all of this is a mystery. They may be playing the historical role of the UK in European wars: keep everyone divided and balance against the strongest power (Don't know them, but that's how I'd play if I were them.)

Based on that assessment, some questions and thoughts:

Overall, how would we like to win this game? Are we serious about an eventual build-off against GoW and Lego? Or is that just what we're feeding them?

At this time, it sounds like we would very much like to end our current war with GoW and ND. My understanding is that the Yellowknife landing was designed to force a choice on GoW: either face a new battle on a new front which they could very well lose, or make peace under more advantageous terms.

I have heard several people insist that we can not trust or deal with GoW. Since I don't know anyone from GoW and was not involved in whatever the great unpleasantness was between GoW and GS, I can not agree with or dispute such a judgement. However, I CAN ask what our alternatives are. Eliminate GoW from the game? Don't know if we have the strength, and I would be very surprised if Lego would ever stand by and allow this to happen. I'm quite sure we can not militarily defeat ND, GoW AND Lego at once.

I've also heard discussions of eliminating ND. Great, but we'll need backing from either Lego or GoW to do it.

	07-11-2003 03:55									#8
	Suffering from ads?

I am here. I'm having a rough round of real life right now, but i'm here.

	07-11-2003 07:59									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks for the responses, guys!!

(Even sleepy from the his hospital bed... "Aaaah, lemme at'em" then grabs a nurse )

This thread has cheered me up.

New guys: JUMP IN!!

I'll assume for the moment that the people that have posted thus far are our active complement... fine. I am pressed for time during the week (including all the other fora and threads we all like to participate in , man, full-time job), so I am going to dash off some thoughts per person... everyone PLEASE feel free to add some organization to the chaos (although not the political insanity that we've seen elsewhere):

SR: Continue being a floater. Focus on the economic issues. I'll play the turns, but for the moment I'll look to you as the primary alternate. And don;t forget that you are a heckuva a warmonger yourself!

vulture: How often are available to spend a couple of hours on this game? Once a week? If yes, competitor analysis would be invaluable... even if that is only, say, one report per every two turns.

opd: Ready to go into full-on diplo mode? The Henry Kissinger of our times? Unless the team disagrees, I think your goals are: 1) GoW backstab of ND, 2) RP agreement to departure from Bob (maybe not permanent), 3) Lego cooperating and NOT attacking us, 4) Vox participation. If you can pull all of that off... jesu, I'll talk to some peeps about getting you a position on the UN Security Council (no sh*t, met with the UAE rep today).

Arrian: You and I are a bit too much alike in our playstyles and military thinking. Can you be my critic? Especially re the 3 move thing...

Cort Haus and Tall Stranger: Are you guys kidding? "Newbies"? From what I've seen in the Strat forum you guys rank with any players, any where. Tell me where you want to jump in! TS, rather than responding specifically to your last post, would you like to start a thread and shepherd a discussion as to meta-strategy?

sleepy:

[music from final Star Wars scene, Leia presenting medals]

You are awarded the High Panjandrum Cross for performance above and beyond the call of duty.

Further, you are hereby made the Gathering Storm Lord of Nurses, with all of the duties and responsibilities thereto appended."

[/end music]

	07-11-2003 14:16									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Theseus, I've been feeling the same the past weeks... I can't help it though. I raked up nearly 3000 posts in this forum in the past, but simply can't spare the time right now to get so involved again.

I do think one of the problems we face is that guys with not so much time (like myself) can't form new plans easily, and there is no master plan laid out to comment on. The situation with rl will probably not change fast, so maybe it is a solution to become more formalized, cfr ISDG. Make turn threads in always the same format, note every unit move, etc. This way, comments like "we need galleys" can be transformed into orders which do not get forgotten.

The problem is, that someone has to do it. I'm pretty sure that someone will look into it once it's up. Not everyone has the MM capabilities of Nathan, so let's split this effort, and do it as a group... but we need some point to start on.

The same with the war: the loose discussion on where we want to go is ok, but as long as there is no specific plan laid out, and written into posts, it is extremely hard to comment on it if you can't follow the day-to-day runnings of GS. So, please, formalize the plan as you got it, again see ISDG on how. Use screenshots in threads so nobody has to open the save (I haven't open any GS save yet, nor am I planning to), so that people can comment from their work.

It pains me I can't help in any of these recommendations, I simply do not have the time anymore. Maybe in a few months time, if things settle down a little with my g/f, but I doubt it. My internet addiction is dwindling, 'poly is about the last thing I keep looking into (and then only the 2 PM DGs). I want to comment, and will continue to do so, but someone has to take the lead and make a framework where it's easy to comment on things...

DeepO

	08-11-2003 01:36									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, you are entirely correct... some more turn discipline and MM would be welcome.

But I just can't be the one to do it.

Tell you what: Let me keep the format I've been going at this with, but I will add an overall strategic plan to the beginning. You (and everyone) feel free to make structural suggestions to help the less frequent visitors keep up and on top of things.

OK?

Also, a BIG THANKS again to everyone for responding to my rant!!

	18-11-2003 04:31									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Here's a summary for anyone who wants to help their team and can spare a bit of time, but doesn't know what's happening.

1. We are getting closer to our get-out-of-jail strategy of allying with GoW to destroy ND.

2. The 'Dealing with GoW' thread has the full-ish story - and a whole bunch of posts from me highlighting specific issues needing discussion. There's also a first, and incomplete, draft of a possible deal with GoW - which an active forum would be pulling to shreds now. Other diplo threads are active with messages which people can read and analyse without viewing the turn.

3. We have very little time and a lot to do. This isn't just unit deployment or build order and MM tactical stuff that's difficult to follow without the turn - it's about new ideas, new alliances, new deals and hopefully a new war with the balance of forces in our favour this time. Read the
Dealing with GoW thread and make a comment on something. Check the the contact logs especially the GoW Contact Log for diplomatic correspondance.

	18-11-2003 04:32									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

4. If you want the turn, get on Vondrack's list.

	18-11-2003 05:48									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks, CH... I got stuck with personal stuff yesterday and then a monster day at work today.

Catching up now...