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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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The reply from GF: recieved on 16/2 15:56
quote:
Oor goal is primarily psychological, ND declared war after Trip first attempted to hunt down one of their undefenced settlers with a Warrior, chasing it halfway across the continent before it escaped.
Lux then moved Warriors into ND's cultural area and fortified them. Then they founded a city 1 tile away from one of ND's cities in an attempt to steal their Horse resource.
Finally, they invaded ND with two Warriors simultaneously and declared they were "scouting". ND then marched on the Lux city of Regio which Trip promptly abandoned.
What we know is:
ND has 3 cities, a stack of 4 Swordsmen and 1 Spearman plus additional troops in its cities.
Lux has two cities, 1 Spearman, and 3-4 Warriors, period.
Of all the units only one of ND's Swordsmen was a Veteran while all the rest (to our knowledge), both ND and Lux were either Regular or Conscript.
We are very interested in trading you Horseback Riding and helping you acquire any techs you do not already have. At that point we would like to coordinate tech research with you so that no civ is researching the same one thus speeding up research.
Vox is currently researching Polytheism, ND - Mathematics/Construction, Roleplay - Literature?, and we are researching Mapmaking.
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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Our CoL for MM proposal:
quote:
GhegisFarb of the Glory of War.
Thank you for your offer, now it is time to talk business.
Our team is quite interested in obtaining Map Making, and trading it for Code of Laws. However, we are not interested in obtaining Horseback Riding.
I would like to offer you the following deal, regarding the Code of Laws for Map Making trade:
1) GS will hand the Code of Laws technology the in the turn after the deal is signed.
2)In return, GoW will give the GS a 150 gold guarantee. This amount will be returned to the GoW with an addition of 30 gold- a total of 180 gold. when the GoW supplies the GS with Map Making, in the turn it finnish researching the tech.
If the GoW cannot allow a 150 guarantee, a reduced amount would also be accepted- but a decent amount, that would reflect the temporary imbalance between the two sides of the deal- between the time that we hand CoL to you, and that you hand us with MM, several turns after.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Zeit of the Gathering Storm
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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a cofusing, and contradictory message from Panzer32:
27/2 22:15
quote:
Zeit,
Thankyou for your proposal.
The GoW has an unblemished record with regard to negotiating deals. Many of our transactions have been made whereby we provide a tech in advance, for another tech later.
All of our deals have been made on time and in the appropriate manner. Thus we believe the requirement for us to pay 150gold an unnecessary requirement. Once a deal is agreed to, we will honour our part. Our word is our guarantee.
However, for whatever reason it seems the GS team is wary of the GOW. As such, as a measure of faith on our behalf, we are willing to offer some gold, which you can hold in trust, until we can provide you with MM. 150gold is unfortunately beyond our means. We can offer you 100 gold. We realise our recent actions against Lux may of seen aggressive to some teams, however we are willing to let you know the full story if you can guarantee confidentiality. We offer this to strengthen the relations between our two civilizations.
In addition, we would like you to consider the following additional clauses.
We understand that HBR is of little value to GS, however you will eventually need the technology. As such, we would like to become your preferred supplier. We can set the price now at say $30 gold or world map or another tech of GS's choice. These are bargain basement prices, and you get to choose the timing of when you would like to buy the tech.
We would also like you to consider a condition which limits your use of MM. The Northern part of our continent was cramped by 3 civilizations. Good land is at a premium and there was always going to be a war. Lux chose a very aggressive play style, and has obviously paid the price. The Northern part of our continent is barely enough for ND and GOW, and we would like you to agree to not to settle anywhere in the North. This is to ensure there is just enough land for ND & ourselves, and also for your own protection. We had arranged a peace settlement between Lux & ND, however Lux kept on disbanding their cities. ND was becoming furious, and our last minute negotiations, which was agreed to in principle by ND, fell through when Lux Disbanded their capital. We do not think we could hold back ND if you decided to settle North.
As such, if you insist on sending a galley to our continent, please do so below the central jungle area. We will provide maps to you.
Thus, the final contract between us will be.
1) GS will hand the Code of Laws technology the in the turn after the deal is signed.
2) In return, GoW will give the GS a 100 gold guarantee. This amount will be returned to the GoW with an addition of 30 gold- a total of 130 gold. when the GoW supplies the GS with Map Making, in the turn it finish researching the tech.
3) GS will agree to purchase HBR from the GoW team for the price of 30gold. The timing of this purchase is up to GS.
4) GS will agree not to settle the Northern half of GoW continent until the year 10ad.
5) There is a standard no tech-whoring agreement for 10 turns after any tech is transferred between GoW & GS. This will ensure each team is given the best opportunity to sell their tech to all other teams.
Thank you,
Panzer32
Foreign Affairs consul for the Glory of War
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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Another message from Hot_Enamel, another consul:
1/3 15:43
quote:
Good Day Zeit,
Panzer is getting swamped with some of his foreign affair duties, so I have offered to give him a hand. He asked if I could look after your team.
Panzer remains my boss, and I have no authority to make deals. But I am one of the few active members in our team, so am up to date with our current situation. So I can let you know if I think my team will agree to something.
I believe we have sent you a counter offer for COL. You can unofficially let me know if you think your team will agree. I had a large part in drafting our response.
We would also like to explore the option of trading world maps or territory maps immediately after we give you map making. It will make it easier to understand why the Northern Part of our continent is full....it is the only place with good land.
Finally, I would like to discuss the rumors that are circulating about Lux. There is a possibility that they have purchased a city on your continent. Certainly we cannot find any trace of them (other than abandoned cities) on our continent. We are still searching for roaming settlers, but ND is quite certain Lux abandoned their last one to avoid them taking it.
If they are on your continent, then they are truly magicians. We will never admit this on the main board, but Lux has been very impressive in avoiding conflict. We had almost negotiated peace, but Lux disbanded their capital which infuriated ND. After that, ND would not accept our plan.
If Lux purchased a city from yourselves then please let us know. We have little interest in hunting them down...they are simply too evasive.
I am also willing to trade you some intelligence. Perhaps the full political story on our continent and the real reasons for our war. Perhaps this would allow some of your members to trust us a little more, so there is no need for $$ guarantees in future deals.
Out of your members, Conqueror knows me. I have a PBEM game with him. (I am unfortunately stuck on an island, but I believe he is having some fun with some romans)
And finally, you should note that I live in Australia, which puts me in the worst possible timezone. You can PM me, or email me using my home or hotmail address
hot_enamel at optusnet.com.au
hot_enamel at hotmail.com
Regards
Hot_Enamel of the GoW
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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My reply (sorry for running, late, i was on vacation, of sorts...), to Hot Enamel
quote:
Honorable Hot_Enamel, consul for the Glory of War
I am sorry for not replying, i was on a vacation for this weekend, and have just returned, so pardon my lack of manners, and hastiness.
Regarding the CoL-MM deal: I have recieved a message from GhengisFarb, that was sent on 27/2 03:22, and here it is:
quote:
My team seems to find your offer acceptable, so all you would have to do is offer it to us on when you finish researching it and we will give you the 150 gold. |
Then to my suprise, i find, a few days later, a message from Panzer32, that says you can't pay us 150, and also setting a few conditions- which you probably know (as the one composing the list of proposals/demands...)
I suppose you could say the first sentence (in GF's message) means your team only seem to agree. But then again- he also said we should give you the tech and you give us 150 gold. I don't know how you strike deals, but we usually negotiate first, and sign deals later, not the other way around...
But then again- this was probably just a misunderstanding. It's not that the GS is not willing to discuss these issues, its just that GF message made us consider the issue a done deal.
As for the proposals given to me by Panzer32: 100 gold instead of 150 can be acceptable, but the team must decide- the flexibility was given to your team, and our willingness to compromise on this matter has not decreased, but the acceptance by your team (or at least as GF puts it) certainly makes things more complex.
As for the other issues- those seem like worthy for further discussion and negotiation- why involve these in a simple matter of technology trade?
To dissipate your concerns, i can tell you this- for now, the GS has no intentions of settling the northern territory of your continent- we are occupied with our own land for the time being.
Nonetheless, all that you and Panzer32 had sent me will be presented to our team, and will be brought to discussion.
I hope this matter can be resolved quickly, and the original tech deal (we give CoL, you give guarantee, you give MM, we return guarantee+30) can go on, as only two days ago it seemed this was the case.
Hope to hear from you soon
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm.
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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Hot_Enamel's reply:
2/3 11:35
quote:
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm,
Damn... A regular problem within our team is the left hand not talking to the right. It is simply that we have only a small active team, and agreements sometimes do not get posted.
GF's acceptence was not posted on our forum, so Panzer and I were not aware that an agreement has been made.
Firstly, I need to confirm with GF that his intention was to agree to your proposal...he is away this weekend, but I should get a response reasonably quick when he returns.
I would like to point out, that the GoW takes its tech trading very seriously, and has never, and never will break a deal. Once GF confirms that he sent the message, then I will do everything in my power to ensure we follow the original agreement.
Just some further comments... I disagree with GF's analysis of our financial situation, and would ask if the GS team would consider accepting 100g instead. You are within your rights to decline, and in which case, the full 150g will be provided. (It will substantially eat into our reserves..)
And finally, I would like to continue with our negotiations on all the other points.
We would certainly like to be your preferred supplier of HBR (and all other techs for that matter). We understand that it is not a priority for your team, but would like work out an agreement now which can be completed when you are ready to enter the next age.
Your comments about not settling the North are good enough for us. Again, we only inserted this for your safety as much as ours.
We certainly would like to swap world / territory maps once MM is provided to you.
And finally, we are always interested in intelligence regarding yourself and your neighbours. I can certainly offer you similar information from our continent.
In particular, there are the 2 rumors of
1. Where did Lux go ?
2. Will there be a war with yourselves and Vox ?
I can tell you that the GoW team is concentrating on REXing, and filling the void left by Lux. We never took the war against Lux seriously (in fact when we declared, we did not even have 1 offensive unit available)
I can also tell you that peace with Lux could be close at hand. We are still on talking terms with them and are close to closing a tech deal which includes peace.
And finally, I would like to ask what the iron situation is on your continent. We have a supply, but it is close to the ND border, and we could lose it. Our team is looking at trying to secure a safe 2nd source from another civ.
Kind Regards
Hot_Enamel of the GoW
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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My reply:
quote:
Hot_Enamel, consul of the Glory of War.
I thank you for your quick reply. The time has come for this deal to be done, so i'll save you the time of double checking with GF and working out that misunderstanding.
GS is willing to accept a 100 gold guarantee, according to the same principle of the first deal. We also agree to allow a 10 turn period of no-whoring, both for CoL and MM.
Regarding the settling and WM issues, i'll quote a proposal made by our Chief Economist, nbarclay (Nathan):
quote:
We find it ironic that you are the ones complaining about a limited land area when, especially after your joint campaign against Lux, you and ND probably share more land than we and Vox do. Nonetheless, we recognize that your reaction to a Stormian city near your lands would most likely be just as negative as our reaction to a foreign city on our continent would. So assuming your representation of the situation proves to be reasonably accurate, we agree not to settle on northern Bob if you agree not to settle on our continent. We are not, however, interested in exchanging maps; we are willing to accept your word unless and until we have reason not to, and we have nothing to prove that would necessitate giving up our own map.
This issue is not yet final, but his words on this matter reflect the majority's opinion on the matter. For the issues besides the details of the technology deal, like the "no-settling" agreement and WM- as well as other issues you have presented- they certainly seem worthy of further discussion and negotiations.
For now, let us sign this trade deal as a show of good faith, and when all sides are once again satisfied, sit and talk on those heavier issues.
I'll repeat the details of the deal, as agreed by the team:
1) The GS gives CoL for a 100 gold guarantee.
2) GoW gives MM for 130 gold.
3) Both teams agree not to trade the techs it has recieved through the mentioned deal, for a period of 10 turns.
I will gladly sit around the negotiations table with you once this deal is carried out- i'm sure you can understand the sour taste in our mouth right now- as we considered this a done deal. Please accept this offer, and let us carry on with the trade.
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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HotE sent his reply:
quote:
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm
Thankyou for your response.
As I mentioned before, sometimes my timezone does not allow me to get back to you immediately.
I posted your previous message on the board with my recommendation that we approve the original agreement, as it did seem GF had already sent our acceptance. But in the end, it was unnecessary, as GF returned from his RL duties and posted that he had accepted the deal, but forgot to post it on our boards.
I thankyou for allowing us to reduce the guarantee to 100g, and once again apologise for the confusion. It was not the first and unfortunately, it may not be the last. Contact us immediately if it happens again.
I believe ND has sent us the wrong game file again, so once we have to correct file, GF will accept the CoL offer.
I am hoping that we can forge a profitable relationship with your team, and develop trust in each other so that $$ guarantees will be no longer needed in the future. To do this, I wish to be able to be given the opportunity to address any concerns your team has with the GoW.
Your response below indicates that we have inadvertently given you a "sour taste in your mouth".
The fault lies completely within our own administration of the team, and again I apologise. A simple forgotten post was the cause. I would request that if anything like this happens again, please do not hesitate to contact me for clarification. As I have told you, the GoW team has made many tech deals that involved "tech now for tech later", and our reputation cannot be faulted. We will not back out of a deal, and in this case, once you showed me GF's PM, I had every intention to ensure we followed through.
With regards to my request that the guarantee be reduced to 100g...it this has caused any problems, then let me know and I will try to increase the payment to 150g.
Finally, if our request that you do not settle the Northern part of Bob has caused anger within your team, then please inform them that it was done to ensure both of our safety. ND is certainly making a land grab, and we have yet to come to any sort of border agreement with them.....i.e. the political situation is volatile.
RP on the otherhand has been blessed with half the continent.
I need to correct one comment you made in your response below...."your joint campaign against Lux"
Please note, that the war against Lux was not a joint campaign. The official reason for our war was that Lux backed out of an agreed tech trade. Lux was warned a number of times, and chose to ignore us.
As you are aware however...war is normally a last resort. There were other reasons that left us little options but to declare war.
The GoW team is aware that other teams may of perceived our actions as opportunistic, however this is far from the truth. There ended up being some co-ordination between us and ND, but that was more of an attempt to try an negotiate a peace with Lux rather than quicken their destruction. Perhaps once this CoL deal is done, I can share additional information with your team.
Some more information I can share with you...
Roleplay offered us CoL today...I assume you traded it to them and hope you got a good price.
It seems we and possible ND are close to signing peace with Lux. We still trade with Lux, and are communicating with them often. (Of course it is all done with pigeons, as their exact location is unknown 
And finally, we are still keen to deal with your team on the below issues.
1. Map Trade.
2. An Iron deal that will allow us to have a backup source. Our current preference is to import this from another civilisation, rather than establish a vulnerable colony.
3. The Location of Lux...although the importance of this is quite low.
4. The trade of HBR to your team.
5. Sundry other "Intelligence" trading
Kind Regards
Hot_Enamel of the GoW
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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my reply:
quote:
Dear Hot_Enamel, consul for the Glory of War.
I have read your response- it has made me quite satisfied. First of all i'm glad the deal got through, and secondly, that the acceptance issue has been resolved. I accept your apology, and understand what you're going through- being a consul and handling diplomacy, as well as inter team discussion under time pressure is never easy. Since no real damage was done, and the deal goes through as planned, i think the team as a whole will not hold any grudge as a result of this small incident, as it seems there was no ill intent.
The issue of settling on northern BOB has not raised any anger, it was just accepted with lack of understanding- we did not expect such request/demand, and its integration within the tech deal raised some eybrows. At first, we did not want to commit ourselves- we did not have knowledge of the situation- an obligation is an obligation, after all. After further explaination and reading, considering the situation on our land as well as the tension in the region your refer to, that we will not settle in that region in that timeframe you mentioned. Our members would have rather this to be a mutual no settling agreement, but if this was only a matter of precaution, i am sure you are already relieved- from reading my last response.
Thanks for sharing information regarding the situation on the continent- i thought things were heating up, but the way land is divided between the teams is a cause for concern- with one team after a bloodless war with a relatively large army but little land (ND), while another team is blessed with land, but has not fought wars (RP) might cause another conflict. I hope you manage to steer your way safely, and a profitable peaceful solution can be worked out. GS is most interested in trading partners such as yourself, and i'd be glad if we maintain our correspondence- so far it has been fruitful.
I find the prospect of Iron trade most interesting, but this hasn't been discussed thoroughly by our team- there can be profit for both teams, as we are also intersted in helping to maintain a degree of stability on BOB. One team team not having Iron, or having an endangered colony certainly tips the balance against that team.
Regarding the other issues- i will reply with a more concrete response later, RL (aka university studies...) is bugging me, and my weekdays (monday to thursday) are quite hectic, so forgive me if it takes more time than usually.
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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My reply:
quote:
Hi Hot_Enamel!
I recieved your letter. I hope your negotiations will fare better- Lux are hard to bargain with, as it seems from various posts on the main board, but i'm sure your skills and determination will overcome these obstacles, and an agreement will be reached.
I also wanted to clarify one issue, and i hope you are not offended by me mentioning this: Our team wanted to remind you, that according to our agreement, you are to send us MM the moment you research it, and not delay the deliverance. I was pretty confident this is how you see things as well, but for the sake of being absolutely sure, i thought it was best to clearly state this.
One more thing- do you have any idea if RP is planning or going to sell CoL to ND?
Thanks alot
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm.
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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recieved from HotE, 5/3 11:57
quote:
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm,
As I mentioned in previous correspondence, feel free to contact me if you experience any problems (inconsistent comments) within our team.
As I understand our deal, we are to transfer MM to you as soon as we have finished researching it. I do not have the latest sav, and our turn reporting has not mentioned when it will exactly become available...but I know it will be soon.
I will find out for sure and let you know.
The Lux/Vox consortium has certainly become difficult to trade with. We are essentially treating them as one team. Any tech trade to one, will be gifted to the other. We are quite certain of this.
We are keenly interested in your diplomatic relations with Vox. There has been many rumours of a pending war between your two nations. Certainly having a 3rd nation on your continent that has so closely aligned itself with Vox, will have complicated the matter even further.
Our peace treaty with Lux has stalled. We have called upon Lux's puppet masters to deal with us directly. Lux is having difficulty in trying to abide by their master, and also sweeten any deal for themselves. They are becoming difficult to deal with.
As to RP selling CoL to ND ? I personally cannot answer this. RP certainly offered it to us, so you can be certain they will offer it to ND. GoW and ND communications are mainly concerned with trying to settle on a border, and doing some trade. I will post the question on our board, and let you know if any of our team responds.
Regards
Hot_Enamel of the GoW
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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another message from GoW:
6/3 14:49
quote:
Hello Zeit,
Well....what amazing news.... Lux is gone forever !!!!
It is truly sad, as the GoW team had thought they had made the perfect escape.
And then aligning themselves to Vox, was genius.
There was certainly no indication that the Vox - Lux marriage was falling apart.
I must say, that we did send a "nasty" PM off to Vox on the exact round they decided to wipe them out. Vox was basically ignoring our requests to sell them MM, yet Lux was all over us trying to dictate the terms as to how much they will pay for it. As I mentioned before, we finally decided to treat Lux & Vox as the same team, and we sent a PM to Vox telling them to stop using their Lux puppets in an attempt to get MM off us cheaply.
12 hours later, Lux was destroyed
Enough of that...
Now that our CoL trade has occurred and we are developing some trust with one another, I would like to share some information regarding our war with Lux.
As I mentioned before, we never took it seriously, and actually declared when we had no offensive units in the field. Lux was under the impression that GoW and RP would jump to their defence when ND attacked.
RP & GoW were never in a position to help Lux out. However, the GoW team did not want to see ND take over the Lux empire, and virtually double its holdings. We joined the war against Lux as a method of denying cities to ND. Lux was a goner, and we figured we could keep pace with ND, if we could take 1 or 2 cities.
As it turned out, Lux began to disband their cities and denying ND any victory anyway. Had we know Lux would of used this tactic, we would of not joined the war. We had no beef with Lux, it was just that we did not want to let ND get too strong.
Throughout the war, we had many dealings with Lux, and at one stage, arranged for them to "lease" a safe city from us. We negotiated with ND and they finally agreed to "allow" us to do it. Unfortunately, Lux then disbanded their capital which infuriated ND, and we got a message from ND that they will hunt down every Lux city. Our deal was called off, and we thought Lux was finished.
To our surprise, they got a city off Vox instead...but alas, even that did not help them
Anyway...I have shared some information to you, and would ask that you would do the same for us.
We are interested in accessing a 2nd safe source of Iron as backup, if ND ever decides to attack. Do you have 2 sources of Iron ? If you do not, then I will no longer press this point any further, and we will look into other avenues.
Secondly, we are interested in the political situation on your continent. We will have galleys soon, but have no plans on settling on your continent. Vox and yourselves have pretty much kept to yourselves, and our own continents political situation has kept us focused on our own immediate problems.
You have my word that anything you tell us will be kept confidential, as I would expect from your team with the above information I have shared with you.
Keep in touch, and lets keep the flow of information open. We are certainly interested in having a strong trading partner on your continent.
I trust you got my PM that MM is available in 3 turns, and I am pleased to hear that ND has purchased CoL from yourself. They offered this information during our negotiation to sell them MM. I hope you got a good price.
Regards
Hot_Enamel of the GoW
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16-02-2003 18:53
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