07-11-2003 15:43									#1
	Turn 132 - 70 AD - turn 12 of the war Remove this text

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (25) 1 scientist.
- 262 gold cash, +28 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux

Urgent questions & tasks:
Plans for continuing the war - how best to proceed?
MoW/MoI- What should our new unit build proportions be?
FAM - Safe passage for PoA in GWT's sealanes. Same treaty as with CGN?

Unit movement & actions:
(orders to be supplied by MoW)

Economy:
Apolyton - Building Horseman (turn 3 of 3).
Mingapulco - Builting Marketplace (turn 2 of 10).
Bananatopia - Building Marketplace (turn 5 of 10).
Incensity - Horseman Built, start building Num Merc (turn 1 of 4).
Nevermore - Building Settler (turn 3 of 18 scheduled).
Tripoli - Building Horseman (turn 2 of 3).
Equilibrium - Building Courthouse (turn 7 of 80 scheduled).
Cuido de Alcohol - Building Settler (turn 11 of 11). Make sure that next turn, you Abandon city when the pop-up shows up.
Hispanica - Horseman built, start building Num Merc (turn 1 of 4).
Possumopolis - Building Settler (turn 3 of 8).
Karina - Building FP (turn 2 of ??, schedule TBD, Maximum of 100 turns).
LuxInvicta - Building Worker (turn 2 of 3 scheduled).
Big Bend - Building Courthouse (turn 3 of ??, Schedule TBD).
BigFurryCity - Building Horseman (turn 2 of 3).
Heart of Darkness - Building Courthouse (turn 3 of 16).
New Fort City (see MoL thread for name) - start building walls (turn 1 of 20). ??Do we want to Rush build the walls next turn for 76 Gold??

WF:
Apolyton - (Grows this turn) starting WF 3-??4??-5-8-13-14 (working Game). Change WF to 3-4-12-13-14-17.
Mingapulco - (worker built, still size 5) starting 2-3-6-9-10. Change WF to 3-6-9-10-11 (working game).
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-3-4-5-14-15-16. NC
Incensity - starting WF 4-5-7-17. Change WF to 5-6-7-17
Nevermore - starting WF 5. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-4-7-9-17. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF scientist. NC.
Cuildo de Alcohol - starting WF 15-19. NC.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-13-20. NC.
Possumopolis - starting WF 7-14. NC.
Karina - starting WF 11-12. Change WF to 3-11
LuxInvicta - (Worker built) starting WF 1-5-7. Change WF to 1-7-11.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3. NC.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-10-11-13. NC.

Workers:
Frodo & Out of Darkness - Start clearing Jungle (6 turns).
Spike, panag & Moosefart - move 1 and mine (done)
Dan & Gits - move 7-4-1 to Cuido 7 (WF #8), will start clearing next turn.
Monkee & CalcII - tile cleared, workers Frozen. Will road next turn.
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC & Dejon) - move 6-6-9 to were Monkee & CalcII are located. NOTE: because the movement is 3 tiles, they would have lost 1 turn of mining anyways. So moving onto an Unroaded tile won't effect anything. They will mine that tile next turn.
Sanchez - move 2-2-2.
Squid & Horse - 2 turns left to clear.
Lib & Slave Farb - 2 turns left to clear.
Mark & Otto - 3 turns left to clear.


Settlers
Settler Lux - (after Yo & rah build road) move 1-2 and build Fort City (needs a name).
Settler Poly - move 2-1-2.
Settler nana - move 2-2-1.

Yo & rah - build road (done)
Slave Anarchy - move 6

Diplomacy:
GCA: WAR
CFC: Allied against GCA (not in game, Peace in game)
CGN: Peace
GWT: Peace


Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 08-11-2003 at 01:05

	09-11-2003 10:23									#2
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Summary:

The fort city is built this turn and much of the main army continues to move south so we can begin bombarding GCA tiles around Catchopolis (to try to cut their roads and make the fort city unassailable). The next turn the Workers will follow and 2 turns after that a road on that tile will be completed.

The Galley with an MI and NM moves back north to see if we can get GCA to move one of those Spearmen so we can move back the following turn and try to land again. If this is unsuccessful then we will simply hang out by the iron tying up their units.

New Units:

H14, H15

Unit Roster

War Casualties (19): M01-02, M09-11, M18-20, N06, N09-N12, H01-03, S01-02

Non-War Orders

M12 'BigFurryInfantry' moves 8; going after final barb camp NE of Equilibrium. { Equilibrium 9-9}
M26 'Alva' fortifies. {Mingapulco 6}

N01 'MerZenary' remains fortified; waiting for barbs in the north. {BFC 7}
N04 'Togas' remains fortified; waiting for barbs in the west. {Equilibrium}
N07 'Ghengis' remains fortifies; waiting for barbs in the southeast. {BB 8-9}

W08 'not_panag' skips turn; protecting silks colony. {Equilibrium 4-4-7}

War Orders

Worker 'Yo' roads. {Fort City}
Worker 'Rah' roads. {Fort City}
Slave 'Anarchy' fortifies. {Algalord 1-1-4}

Settler Lux moves 1-2 and builds the Fort City.

H09 'Kermit' remains fortified. {Fort City}
H10 'SeaBiscuit' moves 3-2-2-2-1-2. {Nevermore 2-2}
H11 'Bingo' moves 2 then fortifies. {Fort City 8}
H12 'BFC II' moves 1-2-2-2-2-3. {Karina}
H13 'Tripoli' moves 2-2-2-2-3-2. {Cuido}
H14 'Incensity' moves 1-1-1-1-1-2. {Incensity}
H15 'Hispanica' moves 2-2-2-6-2-1. {Hispanica}

N03 'Mao' moves 2 then fortifies. {Fort City 8}
N05 'Enamel' moves 2-1-2. {Algalord 8-7}
N17 'Soren' fortifies if GCA has not attacked our stack currently at the Fort City tile; we need at least 1 fortified vet NM so they will not see an unfortified NM on top of the city and see it as a good target. {Fort City}
N18 'Waiter' moves 2-2-2. {Nevermore 2-2-3}
N19 'Taxi' moves 2-2-1. {Algalord 8-8-7}

C09 'Hurl' moves 2-2-3. {Nevermore}
C10 'Toss' moves 2-3-2. {Nevermore 2}
C11 'Fling' moves 3-2-2. {Nevermore 7}
C12 'Nevermore' moves 2-2-2. {Fort City 8-8}
C13 'Karina' moves 2-2-2. {Nevermore 8}

W12 'WWNN' remains fortified; watching the hills to the west. {West of Algalord}

G02 'Expedition' [Vondrack, Pikesfan] moves 9-9-9. {Dun na Anarchy 6-9}
M22 'Vondrack' remains on Expedition (unless there is one of the landing tiles open).
N14 'Pikesfan' remains on Expedition (unless there is one of the landing tiles open).

Healed units at Fort City 8 move 2 and fortify in the Fort City.

Units in Fort City (minus excepted units above) move 2. This includes 4 vet NMs, and all the Catapults which can reach the tile.

All other units to remain as they are.

Please take all discussion on the war to the Turn-by-Turn thread.

	10-11-2003 04:49									#3
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CGN has the save, but I don't know how long they will be with it. But we should see it sometime tonight.

E_T

	10-11-2003 08:18									#4
	GCA's Big Mistake Got spare money?

They don't know that we are about to build a city right next door, so this is what we can see when we do.



We are in chat right now, waiting on Trip, NYE and/or Arnelos.

The save will be played when they get here.

Any suggestions, cats anyone.....

E_T

	10-11-2003 08:29									#5
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Catapult the hell out of their expeditionary stack. Then destroy it.

--Togas

	10-11-2003 10:03									#6
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Sacrificing a horseman to pillage the tile 3,3 of Nora ?

Then the city is completely safe from counterattack and we can pile our stack outside the city to protect the cats & hurt MI.

	10-11-2003 12:02									#7
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Oh, my... finally someone really helping us!

It's a mystery to me, why they did this... must be the core of their homeland defenses.

I would not bother with pillaging Nora 3-3. I can see a merc 8-8-9 of Nora that will be able to garrison the fort city. If GCA still has one or two spare horses inside Catchopolis, let they try moving them out of the walled city on a suicidal mission...

Also... Dún seems to be without a garrison of any kind. Why don't we land me and Pikesfan S (2) of the city (in the forest)? Our vet MI will have 80%+ chance of killing their fortified reg spear they will move into the city...

	10-11-2003 13:39									#8
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Hye guys, I got disconnected from apolyton's irc server for some reaon, now I can't reconnect. I will play the save and send it on in about 20 minutes unless I can get back on somehow...

	10-11-2003 13:50									#9
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Quick Q: Should we fear a culture flip of Nora? It is quite close to Catchopolis.

	10-11-2003 14:34									#10
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Nora was just the Temp name I accepted when starting the turn. It was renamed to "Inevitable" on Trip's request.

Flipping won't happen for at least 10 turns based upon my previous experiences.

	10-11-2003 14:48									#11
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I take it we destroyed that stack of GCA units?

	10-11-2003 14:51									#12
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Turn Report - 70 A.D. (Turn 132 - Turn 12 of the War)

Present for initial chat:
BigFree
Trip
E_T
Aggie
Togas

Founding Inevitable
Worker rah and Worker Yo build a road at Catchopolis 8-8-7
Settler Lux moves 1-2 and founds Inevitable at Catchopolis 8-8-7
Worker Slave Anarchy forts at Inevitable 4

When Inevitable was founded, a GCA stack of 3 4/4 Pike, 1 3/3 Pike, 1 2/4 Horse, and 1 2/5 Horse* is seen at Catchopolis 8

Military Moves
8 catapults moved from Inevitable to Inevitable 3
Trasher the Catapult fires on forted 4/4 Pike and misses
Gate Crasher the Catapult fires and knocks forted 4/4 Pike to 3/4
Basher the the Catapult fires and knocks forted 4/4 Pike to 3/4
Possum Catapult fires and knocks forted 4/4 Pike to 3/4
Simon the Catapult fires at forted 3/4 pike and misses
Kloreepult fires and knocks forted 3/4 pike to 2/4
Smasher the Catapult fires and knocks forted 3/4 pike to 2/4
Heart of Darkness Catapult fires at forted 3/4 pike and misses

MI Arnelos (4/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks forted 3/4 pike (and dies, but knocks pike to 1/4, it is promoted to 2/5)
MI Rhothaerill (5/5, in Inevitable) moves 3 and attacks 3/3 pike (and dies, but knocks pike 1/3)
MI E_T (4/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks forted 2/4 pike (and wins, becoming a 4/5 elite)
MI Theseus (4/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks forted 2/4 pike (and wins, becoming 3/4)
MI Steelglove (4/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks forted 2/5 pike (and wins, becoming 2/4)

The possibility of starting our GA was discussed by E_T, Trip, and BigFree. It was decided to forgo starting the GA. Both NYE and myself asked about this when we arrived later, since we certainly had the option to attack GCA's horsemen with a Numidian Mercenary and start our GA this turn. E_T provided the argument that we need not yet start our GA and that if we're going to be spending the near future "REXing like bunny rabbits", the GA would be less useful than it might otherwise be.

I'm not clear on whether this means we are planning to delay our GA until some later point to start it with wonders or whether we might start it with use of a Numidian Mercenary (somehow) later in the game.

I'll start a thread to discuss this issue.

Warrior Hagbart (5/5, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks 1/3 pike (and dies, pike becomes 2/4)
MI Bananatopia (4/4, in Inevitable) moves 3 and attacks 2/4 pike (and wins, becoming 3/4)
Horse Mingapulco (3/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks 2/4 horse (and loses, horse becomes 2/5)
Horse Incensity (3/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks 2/5 horse (and wins, becoming 2/4)
Horse Trip's Guard II (3/4, at Inevitable 8) moves 2-3 and attacks 2/5 horse (and dies, GCA horse becomes 1/5)
Warrior BigFree (3/3, in Inevitable) moves 3 and attacks 1/5 horse (and wins, becoming 2/4 Veteran)

- Aggie left chat
- Trip left chat
- Togas left chat
- Arnelos arrived in chat
- vondrack arrived in chat
- NYE arrived in chat

*Discussion by Arnelos, BigFree, E_T, NYE, and vondrack on the next move with our SoD and with our landing party.
- BF wanted to move the rest of our force to Catch 8 and forgo pillaging Cath 8 and Cath 8-9.
- E_T and Arnelos (and Trip had earlier agreed) wanted to send our forces to Inevitable 3 and use horses to pillage Catch 8 and Catch 8-9

After a good bit of discussion, it was decided to move all forces of the SoD to Inevitable 3 this turn, then Catch 7-8 the following turn (NYE's plan), then Catch 7 the next turn, attacking the turn after that. We will use horses to pillage Catch 8 and Catch 8-9 to prevent attack on Inevitable while the army is marching through the hills.

Horse BFC (in Inevitable) moves 3-3 to Catch 8-9 and pillages
Horse Bambi (in Inevitable) moves 3-2 to Catch 8 and pillages
AS Expedition of Apolyton (at Anarchy 6-9) moves 1-2 and deploys landing party of MI vondrack and NM Pikesfan to Anarchy 2

GCA horse spotted at Anarchy 2-1
GCA horse spotted on mountain at Anarchy 2-2-3

AS Expedition of Apolyton (at Anarchy 3-3) moves 8 (to block the port)
Horse in Hispanica renamed Trip's Guard III
Horse in Incensity renamed Arnelos the Horseman
SoD (MI Beta, MI Makahlua, MI wervdon, MI Jean-Luc, MI Igor, MI Donald, MI Robin, MI Hack, MI Aidun, MI Scourge, NM roadcage, NM Sharpe, NM Hungryopd, and Horse Kermit) moved 3 from Inevitable to Inevitable 3 and fortified there
Horse Incensity at Inevitable 3 forted
NM Mao (at Inevitable 8) moved 2-3 to Inevitable 3 and forted
Fire the Catapult (at Inevitable 8-8) moved 2-2-3 to Inevitable 3
NM Enamel (at Inevitable 8-8-9) moved 1-2-2 into Inevitable
Horse Bingo (at Inevitable 8-8-9) moved 1-2-2-3 to Inevitable 3 and forted
NM Taxi (at Inevitable 8-8-8-9) moved 2-2-1 to Inevitable 8
NM Waiter (at Inevitable 8-8-8-9) moved 2-2-2 to Inevitable 8-9
Horse SeaBiscuit (at Nevermore 2-2) moved 3-2-2-2-1-2 into Inevitable
Toss the Catapult (at Nevermore 2) moved 2-3-2 to Inevitable 8-8-8-9
Hurl the Catapult (in Nevemrore) moved 2-2-3 to Nevermore 2-2-3
Fling the Catapult and Karina (at Nevermore 8) moved to Nevermore 2-2
Horse Tripoli (in Cuido) moved 2-2-2-2-3-2 to Inevitable 8-8-8-9
Horse BFC II (in Karina) moved 1-2-2-2-2-2 to Nevermore 2-2
Trip's Guard III (in Hispanica) moved 3-3-2-2-2-3 to Karina 1
Horse Arnelos (in Incensity) moved 1-1-1-1-1-2
MI BigFurryInfantry (3/3, at Equilibrium 9-9) attacks 2/2 Barb Horse (and wins, promoted to 4/4 Veteran)
Barb camp spotted on mountain at Equilibrium 9-9-8-8
MI Alva (at Mingapulco 6) forts
Warrior not_panag skips turn

*Discussion about what to do with Princess of Apolyton near GWT. Decision by Consuls to move it further away from GWT territory toward the crossing point.

AS Princess of Apolyton (at Panama 9-9-8) moved 2-2-3 to Panama 6-3
Warrior With No Name (at Inevitable 4-7-7-7) moved 2 to Inevitable 4-4-7

Workers
Frodo & Out of Darkness (at Possum 7) start clearing jungle
Spike, Moosefart, and panag (at Mingapulco 1) move 1 and mine (done)
Dan & Grits (at Big Bend 4) move 7-4-1 to Cuido 7
MrWIA, EVC, & Dejon (at Big Bend 4) move 6-6-9 to Tripoli 9
Sanchez (at Karina 1) moves 2-2-2 into Nevermore

Settlers
Settler Poly (at Inevitable 8-8-9) moves 2-1-2 into Inevitable
Settler nana (at Nevermore 2-2-3) moves 2-2-1 to Inevitable 8-8

- All lost connection
- Only BigFree, E_T, and Arnelos came back to do the WF placements, Economy, and Foreign Affairs

WF Placements
Apolyton set to 3-4-12-13-14-17
Mingapulco set to 3-6-9-10-11
Incensity set to 5-6-7-17
Karina set to 3-11
LuxInvicta set to 1-7-11
Equilibrium set to 5
Inevitable set to Scientist

Economy
Incensity set to build Horseman (4 turns)
Hispanica set to build Horseman (4 turns)
Inevitable set to bulid Worker (10 turns)

Foreign Affairs
WM sent to CFC (accepted)

(this was discussed and agreed upon by BF and Arnelos)

BigFree sent a note to CFC with the save explaining that we'd like to trade WMs to find locations for barb camps in the near future, etc.

Turn ended, saved, and sent to CFC at ~0950 GMT, Monday November 10

Last edited by Arnelos on 10-11-2003 at 15:20

	10-11-2003 14:55									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, they are in hell now!

We lost 2 NM's during GCA's last turn to two of their Horsemen. Still no GA for us Can anyone say "reload"?

This turn we lost 2 MI's, one Vet (Arnelos) one Elite(Rhotheril). We lost two Vet Horses (Trip's Guard II & Mingapulco) and One Elite Warrior (Hagbert).

GCA lost 4 Pikes and 2 Horsemen.

	10-11-2003 15:29									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Where is their Pike Army ?
Or did that turn out to be a myth ?

Or did I misread something ?

	10-11-2003 16:37									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Where is their Pike Army ? Or did that turn out to be a myth ? Or did I misread something ?

Well, I didn't see any pike army this turn.

	10-11-2003 16:50									#16
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Maybe it is in the City?

	10-11-2003 17:10									#17
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Wouldnt we see it in the city ?

All I see is a Vet Pike

	10-11-2003 17:13									#18
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Maybe it is very well hidden?

(in bunker A, under their palace, near the weapons of mass destruction...)

	10-11-2003 18:13									#19
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree We lost 2 NM's during GCA's last turn to two of their Horsemen. Still no GA for us Can anyone say "reload"?

Could we please stop with this? We made our accusations, we were unable to prove our case, and grousing further about it will do absolutely nothing but foment more ill will, which does nothing to further our cause. We do not know that they are reloading. Our attempts at proving it have failed. Let's drop it and move on, please.

	10-11-2003 18:29									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If they have an army and haven't actually placed any units in the army yet, it would be hidden by their veteran pike (or more) in Catchopolis.

So if they HAVE an army in Catchopolis, it's still empty. That or not in Catchopolis.

	10-11-2003 19:08									#21
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Actually, if there is only one 4 hp Pike in the army, the designated defender would be an ordinary 4 hp Pike as we see. Both the Army and the detatched Pike have the same defense value so the game engine displays the lower value one as the defender. This is the same reasoning why the game engine displays a 3/3 reg before a 3/4 vet, just taken to extremes.

	10-11-2003 19:29									#22
	Remove this text

The shot with the pike army, from the 10AD save (turn 129):

	10-11-2003 19:39									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

Their stack on the flatlands may have been a trick to lure some of our forces out into the open, and in the strategically poor position across the River from Catchopolis.

Next turn, we can expect the Hills tile 7 of Catchopolis to be heavily fortified, either with the Pikemen Army (currently in hiding), or some other stack. This forces us into a bad position for assaulting their capital; wherever we attack, we will be facing strong defensive terrain bonuses.


Dominae

	10-11-2003 19:53									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Maybe so; but we destroyed quite a lot of GCA units in the process.

	10-11-2003 20:03									#25
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Ouch. great turn. they're going to crap themselves when they open that up. and expect to see mongoose checking our turn.

	10-11-2003 20:09									#26
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We took pretty nasty losses wiping out those GCA troops, considering we had bombard support and their horsies were hurt. 2 MI (one elite), 1 warrior (elite), and two horsemen.

Two more numidians killed by horsemen. That's hilarious.

-Arrian

	10-11-2003 20:54									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Fewer losses than we would have taken if we had to kill those units in Catchopolis, no doubt. In the end, that is how we have to measure things.

I must say though, they certainly have more defensive units than I would have expected. I would have thought they would have piled everything into Algalord for our previous battle, but it seems before this turn they had at least 9 other defensive units.

	10-11-2003 21:28									#28
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Killing them now is better than killing them later.

E_T

	10-11-2003 22:12									#29
	Put an end to popups!

Oh, agreed. I was just commenting.

-Arrian

	11-11-2003 02:40									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Could we please stop with this? We made our accusations, we were unable to prove our case, and grousing further about it will do absolutely nothing but foment more ill will, which does nothing to further our cause. We do not know that they are reloading. Our attempts at proving it have failed. Let's drop it and move on, please.

We can't prove they reloaded. But it does not mean that they are not doing so. Why didn't they attack with more Horsemen? Because, possibly the third attacking Horsmen failed. Do you really think they are not reloading? I will continue to poke at GCA for this because I think it is true, beyond a reasonable doubt.