07-11-2003 22:11									#1
	Civ3 Conquests' Missing Civ! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

As I looked at the new features in Civilization 3's latest expansion, something came to my attention. Perhaps this has already been addressed, I don't know.

But I noticed that while Play the World provided 8 new civilizations, Conquests only provided 7, for a grand total of 31 for the whole game.

Why not a 32nd civilization? Why didn't they create an 8th civ for Conquests? Or did they originally have one in mind and then decide not to put it in at the last moment?

So the questions I'm proposing are:

Was there a 32nd civ or not?
If there was, what was it?
It there was not, what should it be?

Personally, I feel that the Assyrians would make a good civ. If they had originally planned on Assyria, it would make sense that they dropped them, having Babylon, Persia, Hatti, and Sumer already. Perhaps they wouldn't want to have three Mesopotamian civs in an expansion.

I don't know? What are your thoughts? Has anyone from Firaxis, Infogrames, or Atari ever made a statement on the lack of an 8th civ. in Conquests?

Last edited by Alexander01 on 07-11-2003 at 22:18

	07-11-2003 22:15									#2
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quote: Was there a 32nd civ or not? If there was, what was it? It there was not, what should it be?

There is. The 32th civ are the barbarians.

	07-11-2003 22:18									#3
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Apparantly Austria was developed as an 8th c3c civ and appears on c3c disk but is not part of the c3c presentation. Some think it is an Easter Egg, some say you have to delete another civ to make Austria appear. By now someone should have posted the leaderhead...

	07-11-2003 22:20									#4
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Austria? Interesting. So why weren't they included. Hmm. And who would the leader be? Empress Maria Theresa? Emperor Franz Josef?

Give us AUSTRIA!

	07-11-2003 22:37									#5
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32 is the limit without redoing the game engine. And as stated before, the Barbarians are #32.

	07-11-2003 22:38									#6
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Charles V. Check this thread

for more info.

	07-11-2003 22:40									#7
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Oh, and WHY did they choose to limit the game to 31 civs and put Austria in the files to taunt us? Why can we not simply add Austria?

The Barbarians are 32? They actually occupy a whole civ's slot? That's ... interesting.

Charles V, though. Good choice.

	07-11-2003 23:04									#8
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Some civs will be in special scenarios only. Who knows why they picked 32, other than it is a nice even multiple of 2.

	07-11-2003 23:18									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Oh, and WHY did they choose to limit the game to 31 civs and put Austria in the files to taunt us? Why can we not simply add Austria?

Play around with the editor. I'm sure there is a way to add Austria by removing another civ.

	07-11-2003 23:23									#10
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Of course you can add it by removing another civ. My personal choice would be to remove Iroquois. (Seriously , I hate affirmative action civs.)

But my personal preference would not be to remove another civ for it. I would hope that there could be a way to add Austria without losing another civ as a result.

	07-11-2003 23:37									#11
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Of course, this thread would be incomplete without the inclusion of a picture of the fabulous Austrian leaderhead throughout time.

So here he is, in all his splendor:

Charles I/V of the Austrian/Spanish/Hapsburg Empire
Karl V of the Holy Roman Empire/Austria
Carlos I of Spain

Attachment: charles.jpg
This has been downloaded 426 time(s).

	07-11-2003 23:39									#12
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Whoops! I forgot to mention... is there an Austrian UU?
If so, what is it? Does anyone have a picture of it?

	07-11-2003 23:43									#13
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yes, i believe they have a cavalry UU. the game is hardcoded to 31 civs for memory purposes, and they simply could nto add a 32nd civ into the default game without major changes to the code itself. it's not like they just wrote the number 31 down and can change it easily.

	07-11-2003 23:47									#14
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Cavalry, eh?

What sort of cavalry unit would the Austrian/Hapsburg empire have?

Does anyone know what it's called? Any picture?

	08-11-2003 00:03									#15
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I believe it's the Hussar, as shown in this pic:

Attachment: hussar.png
This has been downloaded 406 time(s).

	08-11-2003 00:11									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Cavalry, eh? What sort of cavalry unit would the Austrian/Hapsburg empire have? Does anyone know what it's called? Any picture?

Yep. Here it is, the Austrian UU:

	08-11-2003 00:12									#17
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Wonderful! Thank you very much.

So now, we've got:


Civilization: Austria
Leader: Charles V
Unique Unit: Hussar
Capital: Vienna (I'm assuming)

Traits: ???

Anybody know what the two Austrian civilization traits are?

(Industrious, Militaristic, Religious, Scientific, Commercial, Expansionistic, Agricultural, Seafaring)

	08-11-2003 01:26									#18
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Militaristic, Industrious

The Hussar is 7.3.3 no extra cost

	08-11-2003 01:47									#19
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Excellent!

Poor Austria! The Civ that Sid Forgot!

I imagine they'd be quite interesting to play.

I wonder why the makers made them in the first place, if they weren't going to use them. perhaps it had been an idea by one of the crew, but they weren't able to use it, so they stuck the vestige in anyway, so that if anyone wanted to, they could use the pieces.

By the way, what does the Hussar replace, Dragoon? Cavalry?

	08-11-2003 05:27									#20
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There is no Dragoon in the main game.

	08-11-2003 20:23									#21
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The Hussar replaces the Cavalry for Austria.

Honestly, it should be pretty easy to put Austria in - just go to the editor and edit whatever the Conquests .bix file is to remove one civ and put in Austria. That should be all you need to do, as Austria is all ready to roll, it just needs you to deal with the hardcoded limit of 32 civs by removing one. Save the .bix file with a different name (one ou can remember), then load that bix file as a scenario and you should get a random map exactly the same as normal Epic Game, just with the civ changes you have made.

Although I haven't tried this for myself (no C3C for another week) it has been this easy altering things (for example changing the number of civs on certain sized maps) for PtW.

	08-11-2003 21:36									#22
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As I recall, they had already done the letterhead artwork for Austria and the other seven new civs when they remembered the 32 civ [including barbs as #32 limit.]

Since Austria duplicates China's traights, it was on the short-list that could be dropped. (All the new Seafaring and Agr civs had to stay to prevent holes, and they couldn't very well drop a preexisting civ.)

	08-11-2003 21:40									#23
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I have to say I was surprised at some of the choices here - I mean, do we really need Austria when we have Germany? Do we really need Portugal when we have Spain? No, we don't, especially given how over-populated the European culture group is already. I would have dropped Portugal, and also dropped the Byzantines, since although they are great they are the same civ as the Romans. I'd have put in the Assyrians, who absolutely rocked, although as Alexander1 says there might be rather a lot of ancient Middle Eastern ones already. They would have been better than the Hittites, in my opinion. Personally, I'd have liked to see another African kingdom make it - Ghana, perhaps, or Mali, or perhaps the Ethiopians.

	09-11-2003 00:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Of course, this thread would be incomplete without the inclusion of a picture of the fabulous Austrian leaderhead throughout time. So here he is, in all his splendor: Charles I/V of the Austrian/Spanish/Hapsburg Empire Karl V of the Holy Roman Empire/Austria Carlos I of Spain

I may just have to make him Cassimir the Great too. ( Poland is less restrictive to Germany and more restrictive to Russia than Austria on a Real World Map )

	09-11-2003 01:18									#25
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Feephi: That's not the Austrian unique unit. That's the leaderhead for the Californian civilization.

	10-11-2003 18:38									#26
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Well, the Austrians may not be particularly stellar, and there might be a bit of a redundancy with Germany, but I'd still take them over the Iroquois any day.

	10-11-2003 22:08									#27
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Is there a city list for Austria somewhere? Not that I wouldn't already have made one...

	10-11-2003 22:47									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX yes, i believe they have a cavalry UU. the game is hardcoded to 31 civs for memory purposes, and they simply could nto add a 32nd civ into the default game without major changes to the code itself. it's not like they just wrote the number 31 down and can change it easily.

Spot on!

	10-11-2003 22:52									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III Is there a city list for Austria somewhere? Not that I wouldn't already have made one...

Yes. Open up the "Napoleonic Europe" Conquest, and access the Austria civilization.

	10-11-2003 23:12									#30
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Excellent! So do they use the Austria setup that was previously made, or is it simply superimposed on top of another civilization?

In other words, is the Austria civ in the scenario really Austria, or is it another civ renamed as Austria?