11-11-2003 02:48									#1
	Turn 133 - 90 AD - turn 13 of the war Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Turn is here

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (24) 1 scientist.
- 301 gold cash, +36 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux

Urgent questions & tasks:
Plans for continuing the war - how best to proceed?
MoW/MoI- What should our new unit build proportions be?
FAM - Safe passage for PoA in GWT's sealanes. Same treaty as with CGN?
FAM - What can we do to make CFC feel more secure with us?

Unit movement & actions:


Summary:

The main army moves to Inevitable 2 to prepare to lay siege to Catchopolis. Damaged units move back to Inevitable to heal before moving south again.

The MI and NM down south by Dun na Anarchy stir up trouble in any way they can. We may get a shot at taking the city again, killing units, cutting roads, etc. Or they may be dead again.

New Units:

H16

War Casualties (26): M01-03, M09-11, M15, M18-20, N06, N09-N12, H01-05, S01-02, W06

Non-War Orders

M12 'BigFurryInfantry' attacks barb camp at 8. {Equilibrium 9-9-8}
Make sure to check for new barb camps.
M26 'Alva' remains fortified. {Mingapulco 6}

N01 'MerZenary' remains fortified; waiting for barbs in the north. {BFC 7}
N04 'Togas' remains fortified; waiting for barbs in the west. {Equilibrium}
N07 'Ghengis' remains fortifies; waiting for barbs in the southeast. {BB 8-9}

W08 'not_panag' skips turn; protecting silks colony. {Equilibrium 4-4-7}

War Orders

Worker 'Yo' moves 2. {Inevitable}
Worker 'Rah' moves 2. {Inevitable}
Slave 'Anarchy' moves 2. {Inevitable}

W02 'BigFree' moves 7. {Catchopolis 8}

H07 'BFC' moves 4. {Catchopolis 8-9}
H08 'Bambi' moves 7. {Catchopolis 8}
H10 'SeaBiscuit' moves 2. {Inevitable}
H12 'BFC II' moves 3-2-2-2-1-2. {Nevermore 2-2}
H13 'Tripoli' moves 2-2-1-2-2. {RO 9}
H14 'Trip's Guard III' moves 2-4-1-2-2-2. {Lux}
H15 'Arnelos' moves 2-2-2-2-2-3. {Karina 1}
H16 'Apolyton' moves 1-1-1-1-2-2. {Apolyton}

N03 'Mao' moves 2 then fortifies. {Fort City 8}
N05 'Enamel' moves 2-1-2. {Algalord 8-7}
N17 'Soren' fortifies if GCA has not attacked our stack currently at the Fort City tile; we need at least 1 fortified vet NM so they will not see an unfortified NM on top of the city and see it as a good target. {Fort City}
N18 'Waiter' moves 2-2-2. {Nevermore 2-2-3}
N19 'Taxi' moves 2-2-1. {Algalord 8-8-7}

All Catapults head for Inevitable 2.

W12 'WWNN' remains fortified; watching the hills to the west. {West of Algalord}

G02 'Expedition' moves 9-9-9. {Dun na Anarchy 6}
M22 'Vondrack' stirs up trouble in the best way deemed possible. {Dun na Anarchy 2}
N14 'Pikesfan' stirs up trouble in the best way deemed possible. {Dun na Anarchy 2}

All damaged units (with 2 or more HP damage) near Inevitable move to Inevitable and fortify.

All undamaged units near Inevitable move to Inevitable 2.

All other units to remain as they are.

Please take all discussion on the war to the Turn-by-Turn thread.


Economy:
Make sure that you choose the Abandon City Option when the build comes up for Cuido de Alcohol
Apolyton - Horseman built, start building Settler (turn 1 of 3).
Mingapulco - Building Marketplace (turn 3 of 10).
Bananatopia - Building Marketplace (turn 5 of 10).
Incensity - Building Num Merc (turn 2 of 4).
Nevermore - Building Settler (turn 4 of 18 scheduled).
Tripoli - Building Horseman (turn 3 of 3).
Equilibrium - Building Courthouse (turn 8 of 80 scheduled).
Cuido de Alcohol - Settler built, city abandoned - see settler chart for disposition.
Hispanica - Building Num Merc (turn 2 of 4).
Possumopolis - Building Settler (turn 4 of 8).
Karina - Building FP (turn 3 of 29 scheduled).
LuxInvicta - Building Worker (turn 3 of 3 scheduled).
Big Bend - Building Courthouse (turn 4 of ??, Schedule TBD). Change Build to Marketplace (turn 4 of 28 schedualed).
BigFurryCity - Building Horseman (turn 3 of 3).
Heart of Darkness - Building Courthouse (turn 4 of 16). Change build to Marketplace (turn 4 of 20).
Inevitable - Building worker (turn 2 of 10).

NOTE: BB and HoD build orders updated. With the FP being so close to them AND the FP time of build much less than originally ancitipated, this is the best thing to build in them now, while I'm getting their Pops up ready to REX.

WF:
Apolyton - starting WF 3-4-12-13-14-17. Change WF to 3-4-5-8-12-13 (working game).
Mingapulco - starting 3-6-9-10-11 (working game). Change WF to 2-3-6 9-10.
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-3-4-5-14-15-16. NC.
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-17. NC.
Nevermore - starting WF 5. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-4-7-9-17. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF 1. Change WF to 7.
Cuildo de Alcohol - City Abandoned, No WF to change....
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-13-20. Change WF to 1-2-3-4-20.
Possumopolis - starting WF ??7-14?? (because cuido being abandoned, the starting WF is uncertain). Change WF to 4-7.
Karina - starting WF 3-11. NC.
LuxInvicta - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-??4??-7-11. Change WF to 1-7-11-14.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3. NC.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-10-11-13. NC.
Inevitable - Starting WF Scientist. NC.

Workers:
Spike & Moosefart - move 2 to Karina 7 (WF #8), will start clearing next turn.
panag - move to Hispanica, will be joining city next turn.
Monkee & CalcII - Road (done).
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC & Dejon) - Mine (done).
Dan & Gits - start clearing (6 turns to complete).
Squid & Horse - Tile cleared, workers Frozen.
Lib & Slave Farb - Tile cleared, workers Frozen.
Mark & Otto - 2 turns left to clear
Frodo & Out of Darkness - 5 turns left to clear.
Sanchez - move 2-2-3.

War workers
Yo, rah & Slave - All 3 move 2 to Inevitable 2 (WF #5).

Settlers
Settler Poly - move to main Army stack. Will move with them to Catch 7 and wait to see if GCA abandons Catch.
Settler nana - move to Inevitable and Fort. Will stay there for now.
New Settler from Cuido (name him "site17settler") - move 2-2-2, headed for the site 17 spot (see Picture in Placement plan thread).


Diplomacy:
GCA: WAR
CFC: Allied against GCA (not in game, Peace in game)
CGN: Peace
GWT: Peace


Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 21-11-2003 at 09:48

	11-11-2003 04:06									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BF you need to change the CFC status. They are now at war with GCA.

	11-11-2003 04:50									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

CFC's status is still "Peace" with us. The Diplomacy header denotes what state we are currently in with each team.

	11-11-2003 05:05									#4
	Got spare money?

CFC: Allied against GCA (not in game, Peace in game)

Where does it say peace with us? I see allied with us but then it says only diplomacy wise.

	11-11-2003 07:03									#5
	Suffering from ads?

CFC is allied with us against GCA. This is an "out of game" alliance. You will not see it in the diplomacy screen. What you will see is that we are at "Peace" with CFC and have no other "in game" agreements.

The status listed for each Civ is what is happening in game.

	14-11-2003 23:58									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

GCA has had the save for over 72 hours. BF had posted at 1BC about it and here is Lucky's reply

quote: Possible. But if you read the first post youŽd know that we have important decisions to make right now. And there is one thing you canŽt deny us, weŽve been stalling this game the least if at all until now.

Any one want to bet they are going to be gifting a bunch of cities to GWT??

E_T

	15-11-2003 00:15									#7
	Tired of ads?

Or to CFC...

	15-11-2003 00:19									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

They're probably just trying to decide where to attack with their meagre forces (CFC in the west, our units near Dun na Anarchy, or the main front north of Catchopolis).

	15-11-2003 02:25									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Obviously, if they gift the cities to GWT - who we aren't exactly peachy with anyhow - our course seems clear. What, on the other hand, are we to do if they hand them over to CFC in an attempt to truly confuse the picture?

They might be hoping to escape and rebuild while we and CFC battled.

	15-11-2003 02:54									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

We all know GWT/ND policy when cities are gifted. So I doubt they will accept them.

If the cities are gifted to CFC... Good, we take the cities.
Our Army rolls on...

	15-11-2003 03:09									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It should be plainly clear that we will attack any cities that may be gifted to another civ. I don't care if they're CGN, CFC or GWT. Accepting cities from someone we're at war with is obviously a hostile action designed to prevent us from capturing our enemy's cities (no matter what GOW or GS may think about the issue ).

	15-11-2003 23:49									#12
	Support Apolyton

GCA passed the save on to CGN about 3.5 hours ago.

We should have it soon. Meet us in chat if you wish.

?? WHERE ARE THE MOW ORDERS ?!?!?

E_T

	16-11-2003 12:34									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

GWT screwed up AGAIN... they're going to have to replay the save

	17-11-2003 20:17									#14
	Tired of ads?

Big AARRGGHH! How long is it taking in total now?

	19-11-2003 00:29									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I want the save!

	19-11-2003 01:29									#16
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

GWT is refusing to replay the save. They seem to like the advantage of going last in the turn sequence...

	19-11-2003 02:21									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Mongoose has ruled, whether he is right or not really isn't at issue in my mind. What bothers me is that GWT is now polling their team to see if they will quit the game becasue they disagree with Mongoose.

If they choose to quit, then this game will pretty much be over. We can go on without them, but it seriously changes the dynamics of the game and possibly makes it unplayable.

If they quit, they must be excluded from any other future ISDG game. That sort of attitude and action is simply inexcusable.

--Togas

	19-11-2003 02:37									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Maybe someone could PM Sir Ralph and get him on our side with this (that is, assuming Sir Ralph is not one of the proponents of quitting).


Dominae

	19-11-2003 02:58									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I doubt he's very active anyway, Dom.

I suppose I could try... but I haven't really been keeping up on the issue so I don't actually understand what's going on very well. GWT is doing something that has been ruled an exploit due to the way PTW PBEM turns work, and they think the ruling is wrong, and are considering quitting? Is that right?

-Arrian

	19-11-2003 03:25									#20
	Tired of ads?

You are almost correct. They also believe that since other teams have used this exploit, and that it's use has alreay affected this game, then the exploit should be allowed and continued to be used by all teams.

	19-11-2003 03:26									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

after these shenanigans, I would stake my life on ralph getting fed up with that team as well, he has shown little patience for the bending of rules and asinine behavior in general. Perhaps he could revolt against the leadership and assume control of the saves.

What a group of stubborn *******s.

	19-11-2003 03:37									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Perhaps this wasn't the most diplomatic way to express your feelings...

quote: GWT: Replay the turn, without the EXPLOIT, or get your sorry cheating asses out of the game.

:sigh:

I suppose we can write this game off now. It's been fun everyone.

	19-11-2003 03:43									#23
	Support Apolyton

I think its telling that Firaxis has removed the fortify all effect from conquests-only units with moves left can be fortified by the command.

	19-11-2003 04:43									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have started another thread where I respectfully request that I represent Apolyton at the 1BC forum, in an effort to reach a resolution on this matter.

	19-11-2003 04:46									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

To think... if the current pace of play continues, I'll play 6 turns over my 3-month term as Consul!

	19-11-2003 09:35									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Didn't know it was that bad! What a disaster....

	19-11-2003 20:40									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If other teams have already used it, I kinda see their point, or at least understand where they're coming from. But I should probably read the relevant thread(s) at 1bc, huh?

-Arrian

	19-11-2003 23:10									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Actually, they have no point. They released their "right to object" when they acknowledged mongoose's authority by re-playing the previous turn in accordance with the rule.

Once they accepted the rule, whether the rule is correct or not is moot. It simply is the rule.

	19-11-2003 23:23									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by roadcage Actually, they have no point. They released their "right to object" when they acknowledged mongoose's authority by re-playing the previous turn in accordance with the rule. Once they accepted the rule, whether the rule is correct or not is moot. It simply is the rule.

it doesn't matter if you or I think they have no point, if they want to take their ball and go home, we can't really stop them.

	19-11-2003 23:49									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel it doesn't matter if you or I think they have no point, if they want to take their ball and go home, we can't really stop them.

Unfortunately, it's really everyone's ball. If they leave then this game is broken.