14-11-2003 02:27									#61
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The Pioneer:

quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer It's what I said earlier, we have gotten to the point where you cannot say anything about the americans or the jews. It is a pity.... So long...

about "the jews"? no. Just as it would be wrong to say anything about "the arabs".

"The arabs are the source of all evil in the world". Do you thing there is anything wrong with that statement?

About Israel? Israel suffers such verbal abuse everyday. So does the USA, Russia, France, and who not. I don't mind that.


MarkG:

quote: whatever he may or may not have said are overcome by his actions(for the Jews among other nations). therefore i give him the benefit of the doubt(at least) over any newspaper that likes to sell copies with the "world hates us" headlines...

This was published, among others, in haaretz.com , the most dovish (?) Israeli newspaper, who would applaud in it's op-eds theodorakis' words if it weren't the "comments" he made on "the jews"!



On a side note, frankly, the whole "liking the underdog" thing is irrational, and stupid. Might doesn't make right, and neither does weakness. That swings both ways. I don't sympathise with the IJA or the IJN that were heavily outgunned by the americans, niether do I feel sympathy for the Nazis, over the far more powerful allies.

I am not saying that the palestinians are like the nazis, even the craziest amongst them ( they're a different sort of evil ), but I am using a hyperbole to demonstrate a point.

	14-11-2003 02:29									#62
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dp

	14-11-2003 02:37									#63
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quote: chill out, the world is not out to get you

59% of Europeans = Israel is biggest threat to the world? It's this kind of stupid ignorant statements that make you think who can you trust or not.

	14-11-2003 02:40									#64
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i'm not sure what dovish means but...

quote: But if recent polls are an indication, substantial numbers of Europeans may have a different one-state solution in mind: the end of the independent state of Israel.

yes we evil europeans have nothing other to worry about but the destruction of israel...
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...&sw=Theodorakis

	14-11-2003 02:42									#65
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From the JP article:

quote: Labor Party head Shimon Peres, who returned Tuesday from a brief visit to Greece, said in response to Theodorakis comments that Israel's image in Europe is very bad. "There is anti-Semitism and a great deal of hatred to Israel," Peres said. "It is impossible to build a new Europe on old racist positions."

The main reason for the bad image Israel has in Europe has nothing to do with anti-Semitism but with the Israeli politics over the last 25 years.

Funny how instead of looking for the reasons behind this image the only thing Israeli politicians come up with is anti-Semitism.

	14-11-2003 02:43									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: chill out, the world is not out to get you 59% of Europeans = Israel is biggest threat to the world? It's this kind of stupid ignorant statements that make you think who can you trust or not.

these kinds of responses to these kind of questions should make you think "what makes these people respond that way" instead "oh my, they probably hate us and soon turn against us"

	14-11-2003 02:45									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel 59% of Europeans = Israel is biggest threat to the world? It's this kind of stupid ignorant statements that make you think who can you trust or not.

Why is this stupid and ignorant?

	14-11-2003 02:51									#68
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lovely

quote: Greek composer Mikis Theodorakis's recent comments that Jews are the "root of all evil" resemble the kind of anti-Semitism espoused by Nazi leaders Adolf Hitler and Joseph Goebbels, Justice Minister Yosef (Tommy) Lapid said today.

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en...cy&enVersion=0&
1) now it's "the root of all evil", not just "root of evil" or "in the root of evil"(as it's quoted on greek media)
2) you ask about taking advantage of the situation? what better way for Tommy(???) to get a couple more votes...


more lovely stuff

quote: Other developments included the outrage over Greek composer Theodorakis’ comments this week that ‘Jews are the source of all evil in the world,’ which was immediately registered in Israel as further proof of a rising tide of anti-Semitism worldwide but particularly in Europe. When the usually highly respected historian Prof. Michael Harsegrove went on Israel Radio this morning to say that most of what Israelis now refer to as European anti-Semitism is what he called ‘anti-Sharonism,’ meaning objections to Israel’s current policies, the interviewers turned nearly rude in their skepticism.

http://www.ariga.com/2003-11-13.shtml

	14-11-2003 03:25									#69
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Why is this stupid and ignorant?

Because the Arab side isn´t that innocent either.

	14-11-2003 03:25									#70
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While I don;t doubt there is anti-semitism in Europe, it does not seem to be among all Europeans the real old anti-semitism..has anyone actually advocated laws against the Jews in Europe? Is anyone calling for people to loose jobs, be barred from jobs, be restricted in where they can live, what they can do for ebing jews? barring marriages between Jews and non-Jews? Yes, there has been a spike of anti-semitic attacks in Europe, but sadly, a jew in France is still safer than a Jew in Jerusalem. So when i hear people speak about the greatness of new European anti-semitism, I say, yes, it is bad, but this is not yet the form of anti-semitism that elads to real effects in the lives of Jews, and if not bening, certainly not malignant.

	14-11-2003 03:29									#71
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Because the Arab side isn´t that innocent either.

True, but they dont have the capability to be a threat for world peace, Israel has.

	14-11-2003 03:33									#72
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I highly doubt the thesis about "the new antisemitism" in Europe is correct. Interestingly, this week both the former and the current embassador of Israel in Germany said on tv they don´t see a general rise in anti-semitism here, and I don´t think the rest of Europe is that much different.

However, I can only speak for Germany, and there the numbers of attacks from the neo-nazi side have decreased. Also, polls about a general anti-jewish ressentiments indicated a similar development, although yes, there is still anti-semitism in Germany. But it is in no way a majority, and it isn´t on the rise.

	14-11-2003 03:37									#73
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Why is this stupid and ignorant?

There is this little country that I believe goes by the initials DPRK. Perhaps you've heard of it.

	14-11-2003 03:38									#74
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I'd say the number of active neo-nazis in Holland would be around 100-150.

Most attacks and hate nowadays comes from muslim immigrants.

	14-11-2003 03:41									#75
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quote: Originally posted by atawa True, but they dont have the capability to be a threat for world peace, Israel has.

Well, the "threat to world peace" thing is a lot overblown. If you look at the border between India and Pakistan there is not only one side with nuclear capability, both have nukes, and there are much more people involved. So it´s all relative. The hysteria about Israel certainly doesn´t help much.

	14-11-2003 03:41									#76
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc There is this little country that I believe goes by the initials DPRK. Perhaps you've heard of it.

Nah, Kim knows it would be the end of him if he started a war, Israel however knows that whatever crimes they commit they will always have the backing of mighty uncle sam.

	14-11-2003 03:43									#77
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Well, the "threat to world peace" thing is a lot overblown. If you look at the border between India and Pakistan there is not only one side with nuclear capability, both have them, and there are much more people involved. So it´s all relative. The hysteria about Israel certainly doesn´t help much.

The nuclear standoff between India and Pakistan is basicly the same as the cold war, both sides knowing that they will both be anahilated when they start a war.
I think this will just be a standoff for the next decades.

	14-11-2003 03:46									#78
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quote: Originally posted by atawa The nuclear standoff between India and Pakistan is basicly the same as the cold war, both sides knowing that they will both be anahilated when they start a war. I think this will just be a standoff for the next decades.

Umm, and I thought it is serious...so nothing to worry about, eh?

	14-11-2003 03:51									#79
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As long as Pakistan stays in their current military dictatorship no.

I would however be worried if there were free elections in Pakistan

	14-11-2003 05:59									#80
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quote: 59% of Europeans = Israel is biggest threat to the world? It's this kind of stupid ignorant statements that make you think who can you trust or not.

Israel oppresses the Palestinians.

The Arabs hate Israel for that.

The United States support Israel against the Arabs.

The United States prevent Europe from helping bring peace to Palestine.

The Arabs hate both the United States and Europe for that.

Europeans feel threatened, but have enough senses to understand what is the real thorn in the problem.

Europeans express their feelings.

Israel accuses them of antisemitism.

The United States are glad that Europeans have trouble to say about the Jews half the things they themselves are saying about Arabs.

	14-11-2003 08:52									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I think he's a real-life troll. What saddens me is the fact that no condemnation of this came from the greek government.

What do you do to a troll? You ignore them.

	14-11-2003 08:53									#82
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When yone makes a particulary despicable statement then you pay atentinon nlongh endoiug to make fun of them. but this guy isn';t far enough out there to make ufn of . He s jhust sort of stupid.

	14-11-2003 08:56									#83
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Azazel, your country has really sucked abourt what it's done to propmaote peace for 35 years. The took over occupieed territiories in 1967, and then sat on them for 25 years without doing ****. Then they decided they want peace ten years ago. That's sort of ****ed up.

	14-11-2003 09:34									#84
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Let's have another beer and reflect that it is a seriously bad idea to use the words Jews/Jewish and Israel interchangeably.

	14-11-2003 09:37									#85
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quote: Originally posted by axi We Greeks however were subject to nationalism much earlier than the Jews and through a revolution and subsequent wars managed to consolidate our nation-state and put and end into our expansionism some 80 years ago. The Zionists only begun in 1903 and after 3 wars, they have still unsettled differences. This means that they have not ended their quest for "lebensraum" and this makes them openly aggressive. This is happening with other nations too, f.e. the Albanians. They are still in an earlier historical stage. However it's about time that the world leaves nationalism behind and progresses to the next stage.

Cyprus was 80 years ago? Defensive wars ended by capturing strategic territory from the aggressors is "lebensraum?" The "unsettled differences" have nothing to do with Palestinian policies (ie, terrorism)? What Israel is doing can be compared to former Yugoslavia? Get your head out of your nether orifice.

quote: Israel oppresses the Palestinians. The Arabs hate Israel for that.

Blah, blah, blah. Seems you forgot a few things in their proper order:

Majority of Palestinian arabs refuse to share power within a Democratic state established with the blessings of the UN.

Israel deports said Palestinian arabs into the territories set aside for them by the same UN resolutions.

Surrounding Arab nations attack Israel in '48 and '56.

Deported Palestinians resort to terrorism to continue their anti-Zionist struggle after losing two wars.

All these come before any Israeli suppression of Palestinian terrorism (so-called "oppression").

	14-11-2003 09:41									#86
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer It's what I said earlier, we have gotten to the point where you cannot say anything about the americans or the jews. It is a pity...

It's always been true that you can't call a nation or people "the root of [all] evil" and expect it to go without comment.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG so it's not about "legends" saying whatever they want, it's about thinking before judging them based on a single sentence

Even when that sentence is "[Israel] is the root of evil" ? If that isn't what he meant, it was a dumb-ass thing to say. If he wants to correct his mistake he should do so, instead of mealy-mouthing. If it was what he meant… even the non-Zionist Jews interpreted his words as antisemitic.

quote: quote: 59% of Europeans = Israel is biggest threat to the world? It's this kind of stupid ignorant statements that make you think who can you trust or not. these kinds of responses to these kind of questions should make you think "what makes these people respond that way" instead "oh my, they probably hate us and soon turn against us"

Yes, and the conclusion "they respond that way because of ignorance and antisemitism" comes to mind connecting the two reasonably.

	14-11-2003 09:59									#87
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quote: Yes, and the conclusion "they respond that way because of ignorance and antisemitism" comes to mind connecting the two reasonably.

so it's reasonable to you that large portions of the european public have nothing better to do in their lives than hate jews....

	14-11-2003 10:30									#88
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No, large portions of the Europublic spend their time doing whatever they want, but when it comes to reacting to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict their latent antisemitism comes to the fore.

	14-11-2003 11:39									#89
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quote: Originally posted by atawa Nah, Kim knows it would be the end of him if he started a war,

So you see the possibility of touching off an arms race in Southeast Asia as no big deal? And presumably see small scale actions as a threat to world security? Do Libya and Cuba scare the hell out of Europe then?

	14-11-2003 11:43									#90
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Let's have another beer and reflect that it is a seriously bad idea to use the words Jews/Jewish and Israel interchangeably.

\
That is indeed true,

But the other thisng to remember is taht Israel itself makes a point of saying that it is "a Jewish State"

I hate fuicking ethnic/religious exclusivity like that. People should just get over their ****ing ethnicity.

And no, I know Israel isn't the only one that does this, by a long shot.