14-11-2003 11:44									#91
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By the way, NYE, remember how we were talking about COncordia etc? Jewws still outnumber Muslims in Quebec by a fairly significant amount, according to 2001 census...

	14-11-2003 12:19									#92
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I didn't see the program in question, so I miss the importance of the demographics. All I gather is that CTV aired a program about Jewish-Muslim relations at Concordia.

I agree it is unfortunate that so much emphasis is placed on Israel being a Jewish state. I wonder how Muslim Israelis who are happy to be Israelis feel about that.

	14-11-2003 12:23									#93
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That thing ruined my friend (who I was talking about; he's the guy who was/is head of Hillel). In case you didn't know, Cocnordia is the less-serious school (i.e people don't care as much about their education there). Therefore they have the time to really give a damn about student politics It was all a tempest in a teapot...

	14-11-2003 13:41									#94
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quote: Azazel, your country has really sucked abourt what it's done to propmaote peace for 35 years. The took over occupieed territiories in 1967, and then sat on them for 25 years without doing ****. Then they decided they want peace ten years ago. That's sort of ****ed up.

Cheers, Krazyhorse.

about the quote: it's not correct, and we both know it.

	14-11-2003 13:54									#95
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No, we don't. Explain settlements. Those are ****ed up. Sends the exact wrong message. Pisses everybody off.

I know not everybody there is of same view on things, but a well-managed government doesn't let private individuals dictate foreign policy.

	14-11-2003 14:26									#96
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Well, we did offer to give them back, on numerous occasions.

	14-11-2003 14:37									#97
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It shouldn't even be a negotiating point. If you don't want to keep the land, then force the settlers off now. You're steadily creating a worse and worse situation by not doing it. In another 30 years they'll be shooting at the IDF too, if Israel isn't hardassed enough on the Pals...

	14-11-2003 14:49									#98
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nah. The vast majority of the settlers are regular people. The ones that are crazy, would be just as crazy in Israel proper. it's not madness that's caused by geography.

	14-11-2003 16:31									#99
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc So you see the possibility of touching off an arms race in Southeast Asia as no big deal? And presumably see small scale actions as a threat to world security? Do Libya and Cuba scare the hell out of Europe then?

North Korea depends on China for their existance, apart from showing off their muscles they wont do anything unless its aproved by the Chinese.

Reading the reports on the latest APEC summit in Bangkok I doubt there will be an armsrace in SE-Asia anytime soon, the major players in the region are esthablishing even closer political and military ties so why would they start an armsrace now?

Lybia and Cuba dont scare Europe as they are not realy a threat.

	14-11-2003 16:56									#100
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quote: What Israel is doing can be compared to former Yugoslavia?

In former Yugoslavia, upon ceasing the hostilities all refugees have to be returned. This was one of the requirements for peace agreement.

Also international community is excersizing huge pressure on all sides to comply with right of return and to stop obstructing it. Sanctions are threatened, etc.

Compare to Israel.

	14-11-2003 17:03									#101
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And to clarify, I was always a supporter of RoR here. That way, lunatic policies of ethnic cleansers would be nullified.

I also thought it was international norm. But then I learn Israel has absolutely no intention of letting palestinian refugees back.

So I conclude, for the millionth time: no, there is no international standard on this, it is simply - might makes right.

Sad, IMO.

	14-11-2003 17:50									#102
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quote: Originally posted by axi As for what he said about Israel... I don't get it, what is to respect and admire in the state of Israel? It's a terrorist state. a state that opresses a whole nation and it's arguably the root of all the troubles in the Middle East. Barring the US, it is now the most aggressive state in the world, specially if we consider it's size. It is a state run by fascistoids and if the Israeli people are coerced by the blind violence of the bombings into supporting them, then too bad for them, since they have failed miserably in seeing what the only viable option for peace in Palestine is. Now, all this has nothing to do with the Jews in general. Many Jews do not support the state of Israel and quite a few of them believe that it should not have been created. The state of Israel does not represent all Jews, albeit having proclaimed itself their protector and vanguard. Saying that everyone who accuses Israel is an antisemite is something like saying that condemning the crimes of Saddam Hussein makes you an arab-hater.

So when Zorba starts to talk about the attributes of Jews when he claims he is really talking about Israel then he does the same thing. Your post is all the evidence necessary to show the average level of anti-semitism in Greece is quite high. How else to explain your take on the situation in the Middle East?

	14-11-2003 17:55									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Your post is all the evidence necessary to show the average level of anti-semitism in Greece is quite high. How else to explain your take on the situation in the Middle East?

His post alone proves nothing about the general level of anti-semitism in Greece.

	14-11-2003 18:10									#104
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quote: Originally posted by atawa True, but they dont have the capability to be a threat for world peace, Israel has.

:

	14-11-2003 18:12									#105
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro His post alone proves nothing about the general level of anti-semitism in Greece.

I consider Axi to be the very embodiment of Greece.

	14-11-2003 18:13									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Your post is all the evidence necessary to show the average level of anti-semitism in Greece is quite high. How else to explain your take on the situation in the Middle East?

Ahhhh ANTIGREEKIST PROPAGANDA. ANTIGRAECIST!!! ANTIHELLENIST!!!! Eeek! Gtro9ß12?!"()=ok- blb.

	14-11-2003 18:13									#107
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"I consider Axi to be the very embodiment of Greece. "


I´d say that´s too much honor

	14-11-2003 18:27									#108
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quote: I consider Axi to be the very embodiment of Greece.

Thank you very much, I don't deserve this.

But please, do tell me which of the sentences quoted above tells you I'm antisemetic. I described what's my problem with Israel and you just use an apostrophe to condemn it all in a bundle. Forget for a moment that this is about Israel and apply this case in some other part of the globe. Wouldn't the international community have intervened long ago? Wouldn't you judge that such prolonged aggression cannot be justified as "gaining strategic territory through defensive wars"? Wouldn't a state that does such things as Israel be accused for war crimes? The Serbs f.e. did many times less harm to the Kosovars and now their former chief of state is prosecuted in the Hague.

I'm a communist. I believe in the self-disposition of the peoples of the world and in their peaceful cooperation. I have no reason to hate Jews. I have tons of reasons to criticise Israel. How about you? What are your motives? What are your beliefs?

	14-11-2003 18:35									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander :

Why do you think they dont?

	14-11-2003 20:04									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The Pioneer: about "the jews"? no. Just as it would be wrong to say anything about "the arabs". "The arabs are the source of all evil in the world". Do you thing there is anything wrong with that statement? About Israel? Israel suffers such verbal abuse everyday. So does the USA, Russia, France, and who not. I don't mind that.

No, I do not think so. One is entitled to his opinions and views as long as they are expressed in a civilized and non aggresive manner. However disgusting or despicable it may seem to another person.

So long....

	14-11-2003 20:11									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer It's what I said earlier, we have gotten to the point where you cannot say anything about the americans or the jews. It is a pity... It's always been true that you can't call a nation or people "the root of [all] evil" and expect it to go without comment. [

Why not? If you make a discussion and then the media may have a frenzy which in turn may make someone realy mad and blow something up which will the other side crazy; now the politicians step and start accusing each other then intervention by force is deemed necessary and then we go to war and blast each other to pieces....

IInstead you can dismiss it and think that the person who said that is probably a little off.

Like we do about Bush and his Axis of Evil statements....

So long....

	14-11-2003 20:18									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander So when Zorba starts to talk about the attributes of Jews when he claims he is really talking about Israel then he does the same thing. Your post is all the evidence necessary to show the average level of anti-semitism in Greece is quite high. How else to explain your take on the situation in the Middle East?

One person cannot show the level of anti-semitidm in Greece!

How about Ford, oh yes THE Henry Ford, by being buddies with what's his name.... ....Adolf and publishing anti-jewish periodicals. Oooops he is American, so all Americans are anti-jewish...sorry but wrong.

So long...

	19-11-2003 22:51									#113
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quote: Originally posted by GePap While I don;t doubt there is anti-semitism in Europe, it does not seem to be among all Europeans the real old anti-semitism..has anyone actually advocated laws against the Jews in Europe?

Several European countries have banned kosher food production, and a couple are additionally considering banning the importation of such food.

	19-11-2003 23:36									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Edan Several European countries have banned kosher food production, and a couple are additionally considering banning the importation of such food.

Never heard of that.
Do you mean how the animals are slaughtered?
Are you sure they have not also banned halal (the Muslim method of slaughter) then?

	19-11-2003 23:50									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Never heard of that. Do you mean how the animals are slaughtered?

Yes.

quote: Are you sure they have not also banned halal (the Muslim method of slaughter) then?

I'm not sure, but I believe the bannings apply to both.

	19-11-2003 23:53									#116
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Well I know that sometimes foods and preparations of foods can be banned for health reasons, when they're deemed not to be hygienically sound for the population.

Don't know about kosher though.

	19-11-2003 23:55									#117
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They're banned because they're not the most human way to put an animal down.

	20-11-2003 12:03									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Edan Several European countries have banned kosher food production, and a couple are additionally considering banning the importation of such food.

Banning kosher food production. Of course. Well, some countries have banned the practice of letting an animal bleed to death without anaesthetization. And this of course also affects the respective muslim practice. But it's of course anti-jewish. And the antisemitism lobby is happy, and enough dumb people believe the propaganda lie.

Now which countries are those? I don't know, just that

a) such a ban is discussed in Switzerland

b) our Constitutional Court has ruled such a law unconstitutional as it violates the freedom of religion. But as the plaintiff in the case was a muslim, I guess we have further evidence of austrian antisemitism.

c) the german provision, § 4a Tierschutzgesetz, has an explicit exception for religious commands.

	20-11-2003 14:19									#119
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion quote: What Israel is doing can be compared to former Yugoslavia? In former Yugoslavia, upon ceasing the hostilities all refugees have to be returned. This was one of the requirements for peace agreement. Also international community is excersizing huge pressure on all sides to comply with right of return and to stop obstructing it. Sanctions are threatened, etc. Compare to Israel.

You should have continued quoting from my point, or maybe you didn't read past the point where your "red flag" went up. I reiterate:

• Majority of Palestinian arabs refuse to share power within a Democratic state established with the blessings of the UN [I add: including agreement of surrounding Arab nations].
• Israel [a sovereign state] deports said Palestinian arabs into the territories set aside for them by the same UN resolutions.
• Surrounding Arab nations attack Israel in '48 and '56.
• Deported Palestinians resort to terrorism to continue their anti-Zionist struggle after losing two wars.

	20-11-2003 18:30									#120
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer quote: It's always been true that you can't call a nation or people "the root of [all] evil" and expect it to go without comment. Why not? If you make a discussion and then the media may have a frenzy which in turn may make someone realy mad and blow something up [blah, blah, blah] Instead you can dismiss it and think that the person who said that is probably a little off. Like we do about Bush and his Axis of Evil statements...

Ah, someone else with his head up his nether orifice. Axis of Evil specifically referred to regimes (not populations), and specifically addressed the issue of state-sponsored terrorism.

Do you really think Palestinian terrorists are mad and blowing things up because of "media frenzy?" No, it comes from their own ideology.

Moralizing idiots thought Hitler was "probably a little off" and refused to take his racist ideology seriously. The same kind of idiots respond to Palestinian antisemitism the same way.