23-11-2003 04:36									#1
	Drone Diplomatic Exchanges Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can't recall if there was a previous drone-related thread, so I'll just start a new one. How about this message?

Edit: I rediscovered the old thread here.

quote: Greetings most honoured Foremen Buster, Mongoose and Jtsisyoda, It has been a while since we last talked. Due to the decrease in activity our External Affairs Office has been more or less inoperational. For that reason only now we noticed you have knowledge of High Energy Chemistry. That is a very dangerous technological field, and treated with utmost care and secrecy (as far as possible) in the Consciousness. After all, it has far-reaching military consequences, and could destabilize the world if everyone had access to it. For that reason the External Affairs Functionality was wondering if you would be willing to sign a non-proliferation agreement regarding High Energy Chemistry? We would then both agree not to trade or gift HEC to other factions, unless we mutually agree to do so. Our analyses indicate that such a deal would lead to a safer and more secure world for the both of us. Btw, are there any techs we can trade? It's a pity we didn't know you could acquire HEC. Otherwise we would have gladly traded it with you, and wouldn't have lost an opportunity for cooperation. Greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Second Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

	23-11-2003 05:20									#2
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Fair enough... I'm assuming we are protecting HEC as it give the Nerve Gas, yes?

And surely it will not be long before everyone gets it anyway - it's not too far off from the start.

Also, isn;t it a little weird we are proposing non-proliferation, yet also saying what a pity we could have given it to them in the same breath? Or is that just me?

	23-11-2003 05:24									#3
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I was thinking to propose non-proliferation so that the Drones wouldn't give the tech to PEACE before we can crush them.

quote: Also, isn;t it a little weird we are proposing non-proliferation, yet also saying what a pity we could have given it to them in the same breath? Or is that just me?

You have a point.

	23-11-2003 17:04									#4
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A good reason yourself - if we can smash anyone before they get Gas, all the better. I asssume there's no UN sanctions type thing against them in a PBEM? The onyl sanctions are those the human decides on?

	25-11-2003 11:24									#5
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I asssume there's no UN sanctions type thing against them in a PBEM? The only sanctions are those the human decides on?

Correct. Both AI factions will, however, impose sanctions.

G.

	26-11-2003 02:04									#6
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I received the following two PMs from buster:

quote: Hi - Had you told us you had it - we would have informed you. It was somewhat surprising (and an annoying waste) to see it already in your hands. I need to consult with the group but I believe we can agree to a non-proliferation treaty. You will get final confirmation in a day or so. As far as trading goes we dont have any new techs beyond this one. IIRC the tradeable ones were the ones already offered (eth calc & some earlier ones). I will give you an exact list when I get back to you. regards buster

quote: I have now cleared it with the team. We will agree to the non-proliferation deal on HEC. That is we won't trade the tech to any other faction until such a time as a third faction discovers it by own research. This includes the Hive who we have so far had an extensive trade relationship with also. We expect that you will likewise not trade the tech to Peace, Uni, Hive or any of the AIs. The deal runs until as mentioned one of the others gets it by own research. Even a deal such as blabla will get it next turn so therefore we want to trade now should get cleared first. We won't engage in even such a deal without your consent. Hope thius is agreeable. regards buster

So what do you think of it? I'm completely in favour, as it will likely prevent PEACE from getting HEC before we have weakened them sufficiently.

	26-11-2003 02:08									#7
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The Gas is not what worries us though, its the Plasma Steel armor that will nuter our attack force. We need to determine the relationship between Drones and PEACE more acuratly. I also hope we have not revealed too much by sounding "nervous" about a potentialy defencive tecnology. Hopefully the Drones will be to dense to realize this.

	26-11-2003 02:15									#8
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quote: The Gas is not what worries us though, its the Plasma Steel armor that will nuter our attack force.

I agree.

quote: We need to determine the relationship between Drones and PEACE more acuratly.

Any idea how?

quote: I also hope we have not revealed too much by sounding "nervous" about a potentialy defencive tecnology. Hopefully the Drones will be to dense to realize this.

That's indeed a risk. Though since Drogue already told Jamski, and since the Hive ignores all our calls lately, who knows they have spilled the beans to everyone already.

Edit:

How about this answer:

***

Hi buster,

quote: Had you told us you had it - we would have informed you. It was somewhat surprising (and an annoying waste) to see it already in your hands.

Sorry to hear that. I was not aware of that. I believe the first contacts between our two factions happened around the time of our PEACE Pact severance, a very busy time in our forum and also in my RL. I had no time to read all posts or discussions and as a consequence I'm not really aware of the details of the foreign affairs course of Drogue at that time. Thus please forgive me if I make stupid comments or ask things Drogue already asked, for example regarding tech trading.

quote: As far as trading goes we dont have any new techs beyond this one. IIRC the tradeable ones were the ones already offered (eth calc & some earlier ones). I will give you an exact list when I get back to you.

Thanks. I guess you're aware of the techs we have to offer. There are a bunch of lower level techs we can offer you too, but if I recall correctly from way back you couldn't trade those because you had some sort of deal with the Hive. Correct?

Btw, something else we have available for trade since recently is the PUT commlink frequency. Interested?

In response to your treaty proposal, I can say the Consciousness agrees completely! Let it be said, let it be done!
Btw, do you also agree to tell each other if one of us discovers that another faction has researched or acquired HEC?

quote: This includes the Hive who we have so far had an extensive trade relationship with also.

Talking about the Hive, have you heard of them recently? Since Jamksi's coup attempt the commlink frrequencies have been dead silent.

Greetings,

Mani Alpha-3
Second Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

	26-11-2003 09:07									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

All in favour of both the embargo and the new message.

	26-11-2003 20:01									#10
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Sent.

	05-12-2003 17:05									#11
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Ok anything else we want to talk to the Drones about, we could sell them Unit Com by the way. That lets them call the Council but they would probly be defering to the hive as we are on that.

	06-12-2003 05:35									#12
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quote: Greetings most honoured Fullhumans-Foremen, We have recently spotted the drone scout patrol again on our continent of Trantoria/Cydonya. The lands that unit is scouting are scheduled for expansion in the near future. We were therefore wondering, would you be willing to recognize the continent you are currently exploring as CyCon territory? If so, would you want us to to recognize a continent of similar size as yours too? Friendly greetings, Mani Alpha-3

How about this PM to buster, Mongoose and jtsiyodaorsomething as our way of saying "Get of my land, you son of a *!!!"?

	07-12-2003 00:28									#13
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Message above sent. Got back the following reply from jstisyoda:

quote: Your message was posted in the Drone Forum. BTW, regarding your previous message, as far as I know, we Drones have not expressed interest in letting you know when a faction is about to get HEC (and vice versa).

This could mean they would be able to sell HEC to all other factions right on the turn a third faction researches it, without us being able to make a counteroffer. I was hoping we could strike a deal with the drones where, once a third faction discovers it, we agree on a price and sell HEC to all other factions, and split the profits in half. That way we two wouldn't have to compete against each other to sell it, having to decrease the price.

	07-12-2003 22:09									#14
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Maniac: It also means we can try to find when someone has it and after that, trade with everyone, before the Drones get a chance too. If we pact the Hive though, and they get Governorship, then we will know when another faction gets it.

	14-12-2003 15:37									#15
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Do the Drones have any tecs we will be needing? The likly have Gene Splicing by now and with their low reserch rate would probly be in need of several tecs from us.

	20-12-2003 19:24									#16
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I haven't got a clue. The Drones aren't exactly the most communicative faction. Eg they ignored our communiqué regarding their "trespassing" scout patrol.

Btw, recently I realized something. Though we signed an agreement with the Drones not to trade the technology of HEC, nothing was mentioned about trading prototypes of Plasma armour units. Since the Hive and Drones probably have a history of exchanging prototypes, isn't it possible that the Drones might still give the Hive plasma armour indirectly without us knowing, thus breaking not the letter, but more or less the spirit of the agreement?
Should we ask the Hive whether the Drones have contacted them about plasma armour trading, and if they have, make a counteroffer?

	21-12-2003 02:19									#17
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I'd say no, it will antagonise the Drones. If they did that, they would probably be doing it knowing it goes against the spirit of the agreement. When we have pacted the Hive, they will see we have HEC. We can say we have a no trade agreement with the Drones, when we discuss tech trading. I think we'll find out either way.

	26-12-2003 23:16									#18
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For other cyborgs: in a MSN chat HongHu mentioned the Hive knows about the no-HEC trade agreement with the Drones. She also mentioned something about trading prototypes with the Drones, but when I further asked about it, she didn't answer.

Anyway, the drone scout patrol is blocking the return home of the eastern Unity rover. Should I once again (they ignored the previous PM about this subject ) send them a PM, this time asking to move their scout patrol to (93.51)?

Impaler says we should offer a pact to the Drones. Do others think this as well? Personally I wouldn't mind a pact with the Drones at all, as they or the Hive as planetary governor will gain infiltrator info on us and probably give it to the other, so we aren't losing anything. However the Drones haven't been very communicative to us up until now, and they have less to gain with a pact than us, so I doubt they would accept it. In fact we offering it could be seen as rather weird.

	27-12-2003 05:05									#19
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Ask the Hive. We could do Impaler's suggestion of telling the world that we intend to pact all factions, while telling PUT that's just for show to the Hive to ease suspicion of our PUT pact. That way we can ask teh Drones too. I have no reason not to Pact them, so I'd say go for it.

Send a PM to buster asking him to move it so we can get our rover home. Do not state to where, just ask him to move it. We don't want to tell them where to put it, but we do want to get it out of the way.

	28-12-2003 00:38									#20
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Buster says he'll move the scout.

	31-12-2003 02:47									#21
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Looks like the Drones won the Govenorship, this is good, the Hive would have been too powerfull with it and it likly sours their relationship which is good for our long term strategy.

We should extend the Drones a PACT offer soon, though admitedly they have less incentive to accept because they will already have the valuable info on us.

	02-01-2004 02:57									#22
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We should compose another message to the drones. I have consernes that PEACE may wish to conduct trades with the Drones. They give the Drones some of their valuable tecs (most especialy Adaptive Econ) and Drones give them infiltrator info on us now that their the govenor.

We dont want to overtly threaten the Drones but we should comunicate to them that it will be woth it to stay out of our confilct and turn a cold shoulder to any comunications from PEACE. So I propose we offer them a Pact with a tec they desire (NLM, Doc Init, Gene Splicing, what ever they lack or desire) and inexchange they shall promise not to accept any deals from PEACE and we shall consider them friendly and gift them additional tecnology once PEACE is eliminated (or along the way if they remain loyal). When we see more of what the drones have this turn due to the Hive Pact we can see how they are doing tecnologicaly. My #1 concern is that they recive Adaptive Econ and steal the PEG, which we need to stop at ALL costs. If we can get an agreement to non proliferation and to not build the PEG then we could gift them Adaptive Econ so as to prevent PEACE from doing it first.

	04-01-2004 05:33									#23
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How about this? First we tell them we'll get D:AP soon anyway, so they'll only gain by trading to us. Also by trading it to us, they can prevent PUT gaining the tech, which is a good argument if they have plans to attack them.

quote: Greetings Foremen of the Free Drones, As you are planetary governor, you will no doubt see next turn that we will have assimilated data on Ethical Calculus, and will have switched research to Synthetic Fossil Fuels. We will finish that research in MY 2154 by increasing our labs energy allocation to 70%. Our plans are then to switch next to Doctrine : Air Power. As our empire will double in size by assimilating PEACE, and as we plan to switch to FM and +4 efficiency in a few years, even further allowing to increase labs energy allocation, it should only take us a few more years to acquire Doctrine: Air Power. Other plans we were pondering was to give Synthetic Fossil Fuels to PUT, so they can research Doctrine: Air Power for us. However this year we have learned that you already have knowledge of Synthetic Fossil Fuels, and are even researching Doctrine: Air Power as we speak. We cyborgs, always having efficiency in mind, find it a terrible waste to duplicate unnecessary efforts. Therefore we were wondering if you would be interested in a trade for SFF or even a leapfrog to D:AP? If you would give us SFF now, we could research D:AP in MY 2154 and offer it to you. Or if you will have researched D:AP yourself already by that time, there are plenty of other ways we can compensate you. For example in a few years we'll have plenty of techs and knowledge you don't have and can give to you. If you trade us Synthetic Fossil Fuels, we will of course promise not to trade that tech to other factions such as the Hive or PUT. And we can naturally agree to do the same thing for Doctrine: Air Power. This would give you a significant military advantage over your neighbours, leaving you free to do anything you want without us interfering. Btw, we of the Consciousness were wondering, in order to improve CyCon-Drone relations, what would you think about creating a CyCon-Drone embassy on CGN such as you have for the Hive? The Consciousness is most interested in improving relations with you and getting to know the Drones better. In fact we were wondering: do you believe there is a possibility for pact between us? I hope to hear soon from you! Friendly greetings, Mani Alpha-3 External Affairs Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

	04-01-2004 06:36									#24
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Looks good

	05-01-2004 03:49									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Not so cooperative answer. I'll tell them that we pacted with the Hive, and this gained indirect infiltration.

quote: Dear Maniac, we are puzzled as to how you mean to have information on what techs we posses that you do not since we are positive we have not been subjected to infiltration by any team. The foundation of any relationship is trust and with you having a hidden source of information such a relation is not really possible. I will not confirm or unconfirm your suppositions about how far our research has brought us and likewise not speculate on possible trades unless you reveal to us where the information above comes from. Once you have done so we will take a positive look at what trades can be made including possibly "advances on credit". Should you choose to protect the source or give us false information as to what the source is expect no assistance from us. regards buster

Answer:

quote: Hi buster, Shortly after meeting the Hive about a decade ago, we agreed to pact with the Hive, but not until the war with PEACE started, as we did not want them to gain indirect infiltration on us (PEACE is pacted with the Hive) and learn of our military technology. Now the war has started and PEACE can observe our weaponry in live action anyway, we finally signed the long expected pact this year. Did they not tell you about this? Anyway, since we are pacted with the Hive and the Hive is pacted with you, we can see your faction profile in the commlink menu from the perspective of the Hive, telling us things such as your base list, technology list, credit reserve, tech under research, foreign relations etc... If you didn't know about this, I can forward you the short "Graphic Guide to Gaining Indirect Infiltration Information" I made for other cyborgs to explaing things better. Friendly greetings, Maniac

	05-01-2004 05:27									#26
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Nicely handled. Looks like buster is like Kody, in that he is very suspicious and always believes he knows when people have got information neferiously.

	05-01-2004 05:40									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

His answer.

quote: Never heard of this before and yes I would like to see the guide. regards buster

I sent back this:

quote: Hi buster, I've made a new screenshot guide about the Drones: First select the faction profile of the Drones in the commlink menu. (I hope image tags work in PMs. Otherwise just copy the url in the address bar.) After clicking on "faction profile" you get the CyCon standard information screen. As you can see the CyCon icon is highlighted and in colour in that center bottom box. However as we are now pacted with the Hive, we can select the Hive icon in our faction profile screens. Click on the icon indicated by the red arrows: Now you should see the faction profile of the Drones, this time viewed from the perspective of the Hive. We can now see some more information regarding your techs, bases, energy reserves etc, as the Hive is pacted with the Drones. And thus ends the tutorial. I hope it was of use. Greetings, Maniac

	07-01-2004 08:39									#28
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The Drones have declared Vendetta on PUT, after stealing a tech. Do we take sides, and if so, which? If we want to Pact both, we could try doing it in the same turn, so neither knows. Or tell PUT that we will pact the Drones too, and give them infiltration? Pact Drones first, and then Pact PUT?

Just some ideas, we need to discuss this.

	07-01-2004 12:50									#29
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Let's first find out what exactly is happening. I asked a similar question in the VoyForum.

quote: Hi buster, I was wondering, could you please tell us what tech(s) you have stolen from PUT? I can probably see it myself in a few days, but I don't feel like waiting that long. Also, what international implications does this have? Was this just a one-time raid to get some crucial technology, or will you pursue your vendetta with PUT? As a last point, have you succesfully assimilated the Guide to Indirect Infiltration I sent you? And is there any news on the tech trade / leapfrog I proposed? Friendly greetings, Mani Alpha-3 External Affairs Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

	07-01-2004 18:53									#30
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My guess is SotHB its the only tec that the Drones lack and could not get from the Hive. As I discused earlier with Maniac this will greatly accelerate them on their way to MMI, If Drones give this tec to the Hive then Hive can switch imediatly to Nural G (lossing a bit of reserch) and have NuralG in about 3 turns. Then they send that to the Drones who switch to MMI and complete it in a few years.

This is a very bad development for UNI and by extention us as the chance that Uni could be Chop/Droped into oblivion in about 10-15 or so years is very high if the Hive/Drones agressivly persue it.