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Commie Chocobo
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
Yeah I suppose that whole 'based in atheism' thing would tend to alienate most Christians |
heh, communism isnt based in atheism, it just beleives that there is no god and that religion is a creation of the ruling class to help control the masses, in this case Marx was wrong, christianity imho, was created by and for the poor, but was manipulated annd warped into the moodern form by the late roman bourgeoisie
"You say this was a coerced agreement, but it, in fact was not. Coercion means somebody forced you to do something. You wouldn't consider the need to eat to be coercive, would you? Natural necessities are not coercive, they are facts of life. The need to eat is a fact of life, and if you want to fulfill that need, you have to find some way to get food. That way to get food is to either grow the food, steal the food, or buy the food. If you can grow all that you need, great. But most people have gotten past that hunter-gatherer nomadic mentality, and don't wanna do it anymore. If you want to, though, go ahead. As for outright stealing, surely you don't think it's OK for people to randomly raid cornfields that belong to others, right? And as for buying food, you need money for that. The way to get money is to perform a service for someone who has money, which is exactly what the workers of Dell are doing. How this is immoral is beyond me - it is only immoral and coercive if a)the will to survive is immoral, or b)you believe a natural need is coercive in the same way that an interaction between humans can be coercive. If you take option B, that's your prerogative, naturally, but it doesn't really get you anywhere, so there it is."
thhe way that these hypothetica Dell workers are coerced is bby the need to work, one must understand that in an attempt to make profites, this dell must take some of the work done by the employees away, that is the immoral bit, that the workers are not receiving their full paycheques because the capitalists take some of the money away, or pay the same money when new tech is made availabble which can increase the work one does, and there fore paying the amount for 5 quantities of item @ for the price the price of 2 quantities if iitem @, if you dont understand read Das Kapital
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St Leo
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Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
This Is The Age of Martyrs
In a recent article, Justin D. Long emphasized the startling fact that more people have died for their faith in the Twentieth Century than in all of the previous centuries combined. “During this century, we have documented cases in excess of 26 million martyrs. From AD 33 to 1900, we have documented 14 million martyrs.”
He did add, however, that thankfully martyrdom has been on the decline for the past decade. "The current rate is 159,000 martyrs per year -- down from 330,000 per year at the height of the cold war. With the demise of the Soviet Union and its sponsored communism, religious freedoms have opened up. Although there are still numerous restrictions and some persecution, martyrdom -- in the form of executions and assassinations -- has been significantly curtailed."
http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/GLIMPS.../glmps105.shtml |
Anyone else reminded of http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/nosissy.html?
quote:
Does merely believing Jesus is the son of God mean you'll go to Heaven? Of course not. If Adolf Hitler believed Jesus is the son of God, does that mean he's in Heaven notwithstanding all the American soldiers he killed? Of course not. If Lee Harvey Oswald believed Jesus is the son of God, does that mean he's in Heaven despite all the prostitutes he hired? Of course not. If O.J. Simpson believes Jesus is the son of God, does that mean he's going to Heaven even though he married a white woman? Of course not. |
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:32
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Well, monasteries are vaguely "communist," but usually for very different reasons. They expect you to work continuously, but for the same reason the Amish do, that idle hands are the devil's tools, and that it's the duty of monastics to serve humanity, not to sit around praying and having others bring them food. There's also a strong streak of individuality within the community; the monks are there for their own benefit, and a great deal of emphasis is placed on the spiritual progress of any one single monk. At least that's how it is in our monasteries.
As for God not wanting commandments to become obsolete, the point isn't supposed to be having a continuous list of forbidden concepts. Very few of us still worship idols, for example. That commandment can also be, and frequently is, interpreted to mean that we should not treat earthly concerns with greater respect than we give to God. In that light, "theft" might also be taking credit for others' work, lazing off all day and still trying to collect wages for it, kidnapping...you don't need property to be a thief. Mentality is the issue at hand.
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by axi
Come again? You're probably confusing the USSR with ancient Rome or sth... |
Actually, no, communist countries in general haven't been kind to genuine Christianity. They'll tolerate vague lip-service, e.g. "thank you god, for giving us the Chairman," but true faith in anything, including Christ, gets stomped. I met a priest once who spent many years in a Romanian prison getting tortured, back when that country was communist. His name is Father George Calciu. And of course Christian missionaries who try to go to North Korea still get executed without trial on a regular basis. And there was an angry letter to the Washington Post the other day pointing out that China's "Catholic Church" is actually an arm of the government's propaganda machine, and not only unrecognized but condemned by the Vatican. Communism is not friendly to fervent religion, period.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:32
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quote:
Though, I do have fond memories of our old days of long, drawn-out debates. I have discovered that, regardless of anything else, people will find the truth in their own time. So it's silly to try to believe otherwise. |
Monk, no offense, but when I can demonstrate to you, using the text of the Bible, that you are wrong, holding that view becomes silly - it smacks of "Na-na-na-na I can't HEEEAAAR you!"
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
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In the monestary where I lived, there was no money and everything was communal. The emphasis was on equality and sharing. Privileges were at times accorded for merit. These were the kinds of things that motivate hard work.
But due to the fact that everything was shared and everyone was equal, there was no need for improvements in techniques or technology. Even such thinking would have been unthinkable due to its individualism.
If society became like that, virtually all progress would stop. People would live in what we would call poverty, but they would be relatively happy because everyone was in the same boat. But, if population expanded and resources and productivity did not increase, year in and year out, society would become poorer until it would collapse. Monestaries do not face that problem because they have fixed populations.
Last edited by Ned on 06-12-2003 at 07:01
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05-12-2003 02:20
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