12-12-2003 23:27									#61
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tsk, no. i'm catholic, and i have no desire to be lumped in with, say, falwell and robertson.

are you saying the catholic church is fundamentalist?

	12-12-2003 23:29									#62
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Conservative Christians are evil people.

Che, I ask you too, who are these Conservative Christian? Do you sweep all of Christianity into your zone of hate?

	12-12-2003 23:31									#63
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are you arguing that all christians are fundamentalists?

are you conveniently ignoring the fact that not only is there a conservative christian right, a moderate christian wing, and then a liberal christian left?

	12-12-2003 23:34									#64
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btw, most catholics i know have the philosophy hate the sin, love the sinner.

that is very different, from say, people of falwell's and robertson's persuasion, who think 9/11 was because of gays and feminists, to name a few.

	12-12-2003 23:35									#65
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which is why i said fundies, not christian conservatives, ned.

or is that distinction a bit too much for you to take as well? che couldn't see shades like that in a different thread, so don't worry, that kind of blindness happens to the best of us.

	12-12-2003 23:41									#66
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Q Cubed, I am Catholic too. Look at my flag. However, the Catholic Church holds that homosexual practices are "sin." I personally disagree with this and will support a change in dogma. However from what is going on in Congress, it seems clear to me that the Catholic Church is squarely in the sites of the Democratic party. They refuse, for example, to confirm any Catholic to the DC Circuit.

	12-12-2003 23:46									#67
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i'm aware of this. note what i wrote about: hate the sin, love the sinner.

that puts us in a wholly different category from fundies, who seem to do nothing but preach hate in the name of christ. was it a catholic who said god made the two planes slam into those buildings because of gays? no. was it a fundie? yes.

	12-12-2003 23:47									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Q Cubed, I am Catholic too. Look at my flag. However, the Catholic Church holds that homosexual practices are "sin." I personally disagree with this and will support a change in dogma. However from what is going on in Congress, it seems clear to me that the Catholic Church is squarely in the sites of the Democratic party. They refuse, for example, to confirm any Catholic to the DC Circuit.

However, the Catholic Church holds the position that Homosexuality is not chosen, but is rather inborn. It does seem a little paradoxical...

	12-12-2003 23:49									#69
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not really. catholics really like the guilt complex.

	12-12-2003 23:49									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Do you sweep all of Christianity into your zone of hate?

No, just the conservative ones, because they're evil. Liberal Christians are nice, decent, loving people. Revolutionary Marxist Christian are even better.

	12-12-2003 23:50									#71
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Boris, when the current Pope dies, there is going to be a major battle to elect a more "reasonable" Pope. I can only hope an American is elected. It is about time.

	12-12-2003 23:50									#72
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I love the cuddly little plush Christians.

Wait, I'm thinking of teddy bears, sorry.

	12-12-2003 23:51									#73
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most marxists like atheist communist governments which try to quash christianity and other religions.

	12-12-2003 23:52									#74
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quote: You're free to call gay people sinners and hell-bound, but I'm just as free to call you a bigot and immoral for saying such things. See how that works both ways?

I'm not the one complaining about my vilification, I've come to expect it. It is just as wrong to prevent you from calling me a bigot as it is for you to prevent me from calling you a sinner. That's the way substantive free speech works.

However, I would expect the vitriol of the Christians to be substantially less than their opposition, should we come down to the comparsion. I don't think you want to go their Boris.

	12-12-2003 23:52									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Boris, when the current Pope dies, there is going to be a major battle to elect a more "reasonable" Pope. I can only hope an American is elected. It is about time.

I'm betting an African one will be more likely.

	12-12-2003 23:52									#76
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quote: Boris, when the current Pope dies, there is going to be a major battle to elect a more "reasonable" Pope. I can only hope an American is elected. It is about time.

i'd like to see a more liberal pope as well. prophylactics like condoms in a married couple... what's wrong with it ?

i don't know who they'll pick. some people are saying jp2 is trying to stack the congress with conservatives...

	12-12-2003 23:53									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed most marxists like atheist communist governments which try to quash christianity and other religions.

Actually, few Marxists like those kind of governments.

	12-12-2003 23:54									#78
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quote: No, just the conservative ones, because they're evil.

Do you hate me, Che?

	12-12-2003 23:54									#79
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i stand corrected. most marxists i've met happened to be atheists who like atheist communist governments.

	12-12-2003 23:55									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi [QUOTE]However, I would expect the vitriol of the Christians to be substantially less than their opposition, should we come down to the comparsion. I don't think you want to go their Boris.

Try me. I can find you a plethora of the most abhorrent sentiments expressed by religious fundamentalists against homosexuals. I doubt you'll be able to match it.

	12-12-2003 23:56									#81
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phelps, falwell, robertson. i'd like to point them out as xtians rather than christians (i'm making a distinction here), but i'm not supposed to judge.

	12-12-2003 23:57									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Do you hate me, Che?

No, but I hate your sins.

	13-12-2003 00:00									#83
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quote: straight people have long since made marriage a joke, rather than something sacred, but I am still willing to let religious leaders delude themselves into thinking marriage is still something sacred today.

Marriage is sacred regardless of how much people try to piss on it. I agree that many people have shown their lack of respect for the sacrament, but that does not change the nature, the value anymore than the persecution of Christ made him less divine.

	13-12-2003 00:01									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i stand corrected. most marxists i've met happened to be atheists who like atheist communist governments.

See, now you've changed the perimeters. Before it was atheist communist governments which try to quash christianity and other religions. I do support an atheist, communist government. All of us Marxists do.

It's the latter phrase that's problematic. Only the paranoid Stalinists want to do that, and they can only barely be called Marxist, since their philosophy is little more than tortured Marxism contorted to support whatever policy decisions the Stalinists are pushing that day.

For the us real Marxists, religion will wither away, so there's no need to squash it.

	13-12-2003 00:02									#85
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Boris:

You want proof of the comparison between alcohol and homosexuality? You say you are not addicted to the lifestyle? Fine. How hard would it be for you to remain chaste?

	13-12-2003 00:04									#86
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That's silly. Very few people are addicted to sex.

	13-12-2003 00:04									#87
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About as hard as it would for me to remain chaste, I would figure, Ben.

I guess I might as well face it... I'm addicted to love. (Yeah, I really like that song. Sue me).

-Arrian

	13-12-2003 00:05									#88
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quote: No, but I hate your sins.

But I'm a conservative Christian. Surely you must hate me, if you hate them.

And whatever happened to my little dog toto?

	13-12-2003 00:07									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi But I'm a conservative Christian. Surely you must hate me, if you hate them.

I said you were evil.

quote: And whatever happened to my little dog toto?

He went to see the rains down in Africa.

	13-12-2003 00:08									#90
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point taken, che. i suppose that is a difference.

recent studies have pointed out that sex triggers a release of brain chemicals similar to that of chocolate (which may explain why some women love eating chocolate after the act) or heroin (what was that line from trainspotting about the high being a thousand times better than an orgasm?).

so yes, it is *theoretically* possible to be addicted to sex. whether that actually happens...

one must admit though, that's probably one of the *ahem* better addictions.