13-12-2003 02:02									#151
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't base any of my opinions on whether or not people consider them moderate or extreme--that would certainly be spineless. I choose what I believe to be right, and those beliefs fall wherever they may along the spectrum. So it's a nice mix of far-left, middle-of-the-road and conservative beliefs. Skewed more to the left, it seems, though.

	13-12-2003 02:06									#152
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by GePap Marx chose to believe man's identity comes from his eocnomic activity-I think that is wrong and I have some evidence for it (and surely you have some evidence for it)- at a certain point, one must chose a meaning to measure by, but meaning is subjectively created-and thus the porblem starts.

Acutally, Marx noted that what a man thought of himself did not have to coincide with his position in society. Subjective and objectively reality can, and often are, very different. It's a bit more complicated than that, and certainly vulgar Marxism has been reduced to wha you laid out, and many less capable Marxists (which would be the majority, sadly) have even believed that.Marx's actual views are quite abit more rich, dynamic, and thorough than most people believe. He is, however, a hell of a lot more difficult to understand than other notble German philosophers, so he is frequently misunderstood.

	13-12-2003 02:08									#153
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Che, I think today's party began not with Goldwater, but with MacArthur, Eisenhower and Kennedy. While Goldwater said that "Extremism in the defense of Liberty was no vice!" and, "Why not Victory?" when debating Johnson about Vietnam, it was MacArtur who first said that there was no substitute for Victory. Eisenhower said that our military must be so strong that no one would ever think of attacking us.

Kennedy actually was more to the right than Nixon/Eisenhower. He ran his campaign centered on military strength and the aggressive defense of liberty. Kennedy also cut taxes.

When Reagan took office, his policies were almost identical to Kennedy's.

Bush has carried on the legacy of Kennedy and Reagan: military strength, aggessive defense of liberty and a domestic policy based on cutting taxes.

	13-12-2003 02:08									#154
	Put an end to popups!

Well, maybe being a Romantic at one point and then seemingly giving up on romansticism does that-though we won;t be able to be a fisherman by day and a baker by night, or whatever the exact quote is.

	13-12-2003 02:13									#155
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, I think . . .

Those are interesting arguments, Ned. I think I might even agree with you. I was, however, writing about ideological "fatherhood," and without a doubt, AuH₂O is the father of modern conservatism.

	13-12-2003 02:15									#156
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, maybe being a Romantic at one point and then seemingly giving up on romansticism does that-though we won;t be able to be a fisherman by day and a baker by night, or whatever the exact quote is.

Fisherman by day, philospher by night, roughly translated.

	13-12-2003 02:18									#157
	Suffering from ads?

Maybe Goldwater simply articulated it better. But it began much earlier, probably back to the campaign of '48 where Dewey almost won after the fall of China.

	13-12-2003 02:20									#158
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Does anyone read Dewey?

	13-12-2003 02:20									#159
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Arguing for a strong military is not what the modern conservative movement is build around- it is a repudiation of various government programs as well, like medicare and so forth.

	13-12-2003 02:22									#160
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Does anyone read Dewey?

I find his decimal system exquisite.

	13-12-2003 02:23									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I hate Dewey, LoC system is so much better.

	13-12-2003 02:26									#162
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

*chegitz plants his flag atop MrFun

Victory!

	13-12-2003 02:38									#163
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by GePap Arguing for a strong military is not what the modern conservative movement is build around- it is a repudiation of various government programs as well, like medicare and so forth.

GePap, Republicans well before Goldwater were skeptical of government beauracracies substituting for private businesses. It is part of our belief in free enterprise and competition.

Still, what we seek to do is improve these programs by as much privatization as possible.

The parties also divide heavily on military spending and foreign policy. The divide began during the campaign of '48, although Kennedy was an exception to the rule.

	13-12-2003 02:41									#164
	Tired of ads?

Finally, let me add, that the Republican Party is pro-business and pro-(private sector) jobs. It was almost laughable to hear Al Sharpton's solution for unemployment - hire 5 million new government workers.

	13-12-2003 02:42									#165
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Truman was the one who created a department of Defense and oversaw the creation of the large standing army, and Eisenhower was the one warning of the military-industrial complex.

Calling dems. weak on defense was a canard by reps. that came during Nixon's term and after Lyndon Johnson.

	13-12-2003 02:49									#166
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by GePap Truman was the one who created a department of Defense and oversaw the creation of the large standing army, and Eisenhower was the one warning of the military-industrial complex. Calling dems. weak on defense was a canard by reps. that came during Nixon's term and after Lyndon Johnson.

Truman was the one who first reduced the army to 10 divisions, who allowed China to fall, who withdrew from South Korea.

No, it was Truman who taught is by his example that weakness invites attack.

And, just when he might have convinced us that he had learned his lesson, he fired MacArthur.

The Republicans won the next two elections because they were strong on defense. Kennedy won because he was stronger on defense.

Johnson won the election because he convinced the American people that Goldwater was a reckless radical who would ignite a nuclear war.

Nixon was narrowly elected to end the Vietnam war, but was reelected in a huge landslide when he actually delivered "Peace with Honor" while McGovern promised to withdraw almost without condition - essentially surrender.

The parties have been sharply divided on defense ever since.

	13-12-2003 02:52									#167
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Your position to reality is so amusing, Ned.

	13-12-2003 02:54									#168
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara *chegitz plants his flag atop MrFun Victory!

	13-12-2003 03:00									#169
	Support Apolyton

quote: Truman was the one who first reduced the army to 10 divisions, who allowed China to fall, who withdrew from South Korea.

Lets see: go from the army that fought WW2 down.who would guess! BUt then in peacetime he reved the army up-firt time in US history. 2> We did Not lose china, the incompetent,m badly lead, divided Nationalist lost it, with the well organized and driven Communist won it. As for leaven Sputh korea-we did what we said we would-I guess doing what was right irks you.

Lyndon was the one who got usinto vietnam, and saying the other guy is a dangerous extremist is not, at least not in a logical mindset, the same as weak on defense-unless you are a fan of nuclear war

As for peace with honor from vietnam

Wait, why do I bother when you get into this mode? I mean, it's such an absurd waste of intelligence on my part.

	13-12-2003 03:10									#170
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ah, GePap's spelling is getting exponentially worse...you can tell he's riled up!

	13-12-2003 03:12									#171
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ned brings that out in me when he gets in that mood. I am slowly learning to spell well.

	13-12-2003 03:12									#172
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

"Youo don/t like me whrn iam angty!"

	13-12-2003 03:20									#173
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

GePap, there is a reason that Dewey almost won and that Truman's popularity dropped to 22% before he decided not to run again.

It had nothing to do with his perceived strength in the face of communism.

	13-12-2003 03:24									#174
	Remove this text

Playing both ends against the middle, che?

Boris:

I never said it was easier for a heterosexual, than for a homosexual. And I will say it is easier to give up something you have never tried.

People can get addicted to sex, because it does affect similar pleasure centres as other drugs. From the perspective of addiction, the effects are not much different from alcoholism.

It's one thing to say, I was sober from 16-21, and quite another to say that one is sober currently. The first statement does not preclude current addiction. If it's so easy to give up, why not go back to your older life?

	13-12-2003 03:24									#175
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

First, you seem to forget China was "lost" in 1949. There were bad economic times after WW2 that hurt Trumans popularity, you had his civil rights actions like integrating the military sap him in the south and bring forth the dixiecrats and so forth. It was Truman in '47 that dictated the Truman doctrine,and who in 1947 create the large, standing military: so if you think weakness with the Commies was what drove him down..well.....

	13-12-2003 03:29									#176
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Playing both ends against the middle, che? Boris: I never said it was easier for a heterosexual, than for a homosexual. And I will say it is easier to give up something you have never tried.

Which means exactly what? That heteros' can give up homosexual sex cause they have not had it yet?

quote: People can get addicted to sex, because it does affect similar pleasure centres as other drugs. From the perspective of addiction, the effects are not much different from alcoholism.

There are such things as sex addicts, and most are heterosexuals, because most people are heterosexuals. I assume tyou have absolutely, positively ntohing to show a higher rate of sexual addiction among gays than heteropsexuals, do you? And if you are trying to say Homosexuality is sex addiction, well, I hope you are smarter than that, cause any third grader can show the logical fallacy of saying that.

quote: It's one thing to say, I was sober from 16-21, and quite another to say that one is sober currently. The first statement does not preclude current addiction. If it's so easy to give up, why not go back to your older life?

This make no sense. is a five month old heterosexual or homosexual? They have little concept of sex, so by your statements you seem to be indicating they can be neither-if that is true, then heterosexuality must be a choice just as much as homosexuality and the claim that hetero sex is "natural" a load of crap..unless your mode of thinking is logically flawed.

	13-12-2003 03:36									#177
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I never said it was easier for a heterosexual, than for a homosexual. And I will say it is easier to give up something you have never tried.

Then why bring it up as a means of singling out homosexuals? And I'd had sex when 16, so it wasn't something I hadn't tried--that's why I didn't say 0-21.

quote: People can get addicted to sex, because it does affect similar pleasure centres as other drugs. From the perspective of addiction, the effects are not much different from alcoholism.

Yes, people can become sex addicts. It makes no difference if one is straight or gay, however. I'm certainly not a sex addict. I suggest you define "addict" as well. Defining sex as negative because people can abuse it isn't very good logic. To be an addict of something, in a clinical sense, involves dependency to the point of self-destructive behavior.

quote: It's one thing to say, I was sober from 16-21, and quite another to say that one is sober currently. The first statement does not preclude current addiction. If it's so easy to give up, why not go back to your older life?

Do you think I'm a sex addict? Do you have any clue as to my sex life? Why would you assume I'm a sex addict--because I'm homosexual?

It's easy to go without sex for a long while. But your question about giving it up--and I assume you mean having sex--is rather specious, because I ask: why should I? I have a healthy sex life that I enjoy, and it doesn't hurt myself or others. What reason would I have to give it up?

More to the point, since this revolves around the whole marriage issue, why should a homosexual try to deny being homosexual when he has someone he loves, is happy with and wants to marry? What kind of stupid schmuck would chuck that aside?

	13-12-2003 03:38									#178
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov More to the point, since this revolves around the whole marriage issue, why should a homosexual try to deny being homosexual when he has someone he loves, is happy with and wants to marry? What kind of stupid schmuck would chuck that aside?

I love your rhetorical questions.

	13-12-2003 03:40									#179
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Truman's drop in popularity was almost entirely attributable to his civil rights actions, which pissed off the Dixiecrats who had formerly supported him. The near victory of Dewey was because there was a guy name Thurmond running as a Segregationist who sapped away what was then traditionally Democrat votes in the South. Had Thurmond not ran, Truman would have won in a walk.

	13-12-2003 03:40									#180
	Support Apolyton

Boris: it works better to deconstruct his "logic".