12-12-2003 13:06									#1
	Turn 139, 210 AD Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (18) 1 scientist.
- 604 gold cash, +51 gpt.
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux NOTE to Consuls from MoI: Furs will be connected next turn, but we will be unable to lower Lux slider until Banana builds it's settler. Sorry...

Urgent questions & tasks:
MoW - Western Front and holding the BoP tile; Southern front and finishing off GCA; Northern front and stopping any GCA landing
MoW/MoI- Build Ques?
MoI - Upcoming city sites - current proposals are acceptable?
MoI - Plan to build Colossus and Great Wall in Tripoli and Hispanica - WHEN so that GA begins with optimal timing?
FAM - What provisions for a treaty would CFC accept? What will make them want to honor the treaty, at the very least in the short term?
FAM - Tech trades with CGN - go ahead with the proposed plan?

Unit movement & actions

Unit Roster

To be edited by MoW


Economy:
Apolyton - Horseman built, start building Num Merc (turn 1 of 3). Note to MoW/consuls: the timing for the next settler requires 2 30su. This NM is the 2nd of 2.
Mingapulco - MI built, start building Marketplace (turn 1 of 10). Note: we have 2 turns in which to change this, but I would really like to get this Market started, for the Income....
Bananatopia - Building Settler (turn 2 of 3).
Incensity - Building MI (turn 4 of 5).
Nevermore - Building Settler (turn 8 of 13 schedualed).
Tripoli - Building Horseman (turn 3 of 3).
Equilibrium - Building Courthouse (turn 13 of 80 - Not Schedualed Yet).
Hispanica - Building Horseman (turn 4 of 4).
Karina - Building Forbiddden Palace (turn 10 of 30). Note: I was able to tweek 1 additional turn off of this build.
LuxInvicta - Building Worker (turn 3 of 3).
Big Bend - Building Galley (turn 10 of 10).
BigFurryCity - Building Horseman (turn 1 of 3).
Resolution - Building Worker (turn 3 of 10).
Heart of Darkness - Building Market (turn 9 of 19).
Elucidium Novum - Building Worker (turn 5 of 9 schedualed).
Inevitable - Building Worker (turn 7 of 10).

New Cities
New BoP (needs naming) - start building Walls (turn 1 of 20)
New Possum (needs naming - Start building Marketplace (turn 1 of ?? - not schedualed yet)

WF:
Apolyton - starting WF 3-5-8-13-14 (working Game). Change WF to 3-4-8-13-14
Mingapulco - starting WF 2-3-6-9-10. Change WF to 3-6-9-10-11 (working game).
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-3-4-5-7-14-15-17. NC.
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-17. NC.
Nevermore - starting WF 7-8. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-4-7-9-17. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF 5. NC.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-13-20. Change WF to 1-2-3-12-20.
Karina - starting WF 1-4-11-12-13. NC
LuxInvicta - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-3-??8??-11. Change WF to 1-3-8-11.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3-19. NC
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC.
Resolution - starting WF Scientist. NC
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-5-10-11-13. NC.
Elucidium Novum - (grows this turn) starting WF 2-??8??. Change WF to 2-8.
Inevitable - starting WF Taxman. NC.

New Cities
New BoP (needs naming) - Set WF to 3.
New Possum (needs naming - Set WF to 1.

Workers:
Dan & Gits - road (done)
Frodo & Out of Darness - road (done)
Spike & Moosefarts - tile cleared, workers frozen. Will road next turn.
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC and Dejon) - move to Nevermore 4 (Iron) and Mine (2 turns to complete)
Sanchez - start roading (2 turns to complete)
Yo & Slave Anarchy - road built, workers frozen
rah - move 2, will road next turn.

Settlers: see General Overall City Placement Plan #1 for locations
Settler Founder - move 2-2-1. Settler founder is headed to the location of site 23
WorkerBandit - build New BoP (How does Balance of Peace grab you??) - - see above for build and WF assignments
Settler Possum - build new Possum (need a new name) - see above for build and WF assignments


Diplomacy:
GCA: WAR
CFC: Allied against GCA (not in game, Peace in game)
CGN: Peace
GWT: Peace


Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 15-12-2003 at 07:51

	12-12-2003 21:11									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have just recently started a job that I'm currently working 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, atleast until the holidays. I hope that it will continue after the holidays (because I really need the money), but that's no guarantee at this point in time.

The main thing is, I need to have more than one turn's turnthread up (or someplace for me to put up orders that I know will be copied from), so that I can make sure that I have the orders up to date.

* E_T feels that the turns just might start coming quicker, it's just a hunch...

MoI E_T

	13-12-2003 04:13									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by E_T The main thing is, I need to have more than one turn's turnthread up (or someplace for me to put up orders that I know will be copied from), so that I can make sure that I have the orders up to date.

Will do. I'll put a Turn 140 thread up if another hasn't already done it when MarkG transfers me the SpellZ.

	13-12-2003 21:28									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Will do. I'll put a Turn 140 thread up if another hasn't already done it when MarkG transfers me the SpellZ.

Done. Why would you need the spellZ for it? You could have posted them and got someone to top them later...

	14-12-2003 03:57									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

True.

Thank your, MrWhereItsAt

	15-12-2003 02:02									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

CGN has the save. We should get it within the next several hours.

	15-12-2003 04:00									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Breaking news:

GWT has gifted the city of "Welcome" to GCA. It is now size 3. Dun na Anarchy is gone.

	15-12-2003 04:16									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Very very interesting. We'll have to ask mongoose201 whether GCA is permitted to remain perpetually at war with us.

	15-12-2003 04:46									#9
	Tired of ads?

I don't object to letting thme live, but they better make peace.
Aggie

	15-12-2003 04:51									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Really, is this any different from the "settler-in-a-galley" trick? At the very least, if GWT won't raze that self-imposed blight, we should have the UN force GCA to make peace.

	15-12-2003 05:02									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

As long as they make peace then let them stay on that other continent. But I'd recommend we contact Mongoose about this as a pre-emptive strike for his ruling on this matter. As long as GCA accepts peace once off our continent then I'm satisfied.

I think we now know beyond a shadow of a doubt how GWT intends to play out the rest of this game regarding Apolyton. That could obviously change, but for now they are in bed with GCA.

	15-12-2003 05:17									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I will try and talk to Mongoose about this in MSN. I will STRONGLY encourage him to force GCA to make peace.

If for some reason that ruling fails (I truly hope note) I suggest we make a joint statement between CGN, CFC and us calling for a total break in diplomatic relations with GWT and GCA. Maybe that will force their "masters" to get them to make peace.

	15-12-2003 05:21									#13
	Remove this text

Dirty pool, old man If they are unwilling to accept a peace agreement, then this definately falls under the "settler-galley" trick. But, more importantly, as has been pointed out this strongly indicates GWT's intentions. We'd best our diplomatic house in order with CFC and CGN soon to face this upcoming threat.

	15-12-2003 05:43									#14
	Suffering from ads?

I agree they should be forced to make peace once they are off our continent. purposely continuing a war where neither party has the ability to attack each other for the sole reason of forcing the other to get out of republic or democracy should not be allowed. I think Mongoose would agree on this one.

Why did GWT do this, given that they just made at least one more enemy by doing so? Maybe they want to use them as a buffer between themselves and CGN and have them plant cities in the desert and jungle.

	15-12-2003 06:28									#15
	Remove this text

quote: Why did GWT do this, given that they just made at least one more enemy by doing so? Maybe they want to use them as a buffer between themselves and CGN and have them plant cities in the desert and jungle.

They probably know GCA will stay at war with us forever and greatly weaken us.

	15-12-2003 08:17									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't mean to be obstinate, but from where does Mongoose derive the power to force GCA's hand in the matter? If this power is clearly delineated or is based on a vague "spirit of the game" rule, then please ignore the following.

While what they have done is, in my opinion, morally wrong, assuming they intend to stay at war through to the end of the game, which we're not clear is their objective, I'm not so sure that they can or should be stopped. Mongoose has already had some impact on the game, mainly dealing with mechanical issues. To force a team into peace goes far beyond what a moderator should be allowed to do, in my opinion. A moderator should guard against cheating and similar conflicts such as time and game issues. A moderator should not influence the politics of the game. GCA continues to besmirch the name of not only its team, but also of its constituents. They play dirty, they are not honorable civ players. Their fate is to never play in a Civ game of this type again. Their fate in this game is yet undetermined, but their fate, I believe, should be determined in this game, not by the moderator.

	15-12-2003 08:25									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I don't mean to be obstinate, but from where does Mongoose derive the power to force GCA's hand in the matter? If this power is clearly delineated or is based on a vague "spirit of the game" rule, then please ignore the following. While what they have done is, in my opinion, morally wrong, assuming they intend to stay at war through to the end of the game, which we're not clear is their objective, I'm not so sure that they can or should be stopped. Mongoose has already had some impact on the game, mainly dealing with mechanical issues. To force a team into peace goes far beyond what a moderator should be allowed to do, in my opinion. A moderator should guard against cheating and similar conflicts such as time and game issues. A moderator should not influence the politics of the game. GCA continues to besmirch the name of not only its team, but also of its constituents. They play dirty, they are not honorable civ players. Their fate is to never play in a Civ game of this type again. Their fate in this game is yet undetermined, but their fate, I believe, should be determined in this game, not by the moderator.

Bold added by me.

They are ALREADY in the C3C IDG hosted by CDG and are already making there glistening personalities known.

I disagree, this is not any different than the settler on a galley trick.

If they make peace fine, I have no problem with it, but if this is solely to remain at war with us it is unethical and just down right sh1tty.

Therefore we will have to make an issue of it.

The thing that is really sickening about this, is that Lucky has been making a big deal out of making sure we get all the exploits identified and out in the open before the game. (the new one. )If he intends to remain at war in this one that only proves what a hippocrit he truely is.

	15-12-2003 08:33									#18
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Bold added by me. They are ALREADY in the C3C IDG hosted by CDG and are already making there glistening personalities known.

My error then, and my apologies. I assumed that all knew of their reputation and that they would be held accountable. I guess I was wrong, that does happen occassionally

	15-12-2003 08:38									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I have asked that Trip, who is playing the save right now, include a message to Mongoose201 when he sends the save. I would also encourage Master Zen to contact Mongoose201 by MSN, if he can do so.

Mongoose201 needs to know our team's position on this matter. Should that fail, I have no problem with making a rather public and joint threat of just what this means to GWT. If that's the price they're willing to pay, so be it.

	15-12-2003 09:06									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I have asked that Trip, who is playing the save right now, include a message to Mongoose201 when he sends the save. I would also encourage Master Zen to contact Mongoose201 by MSN, if he can do so. Mongoose201 needs to know our team's position on this matter. Should that fail, I have no problem with making a rather public and joint threat of just what this means to GWT. If that's the price they're willing to pay, so be it.

Or a note to GCA congratulating them on finding an innovative escape route.
We wish them the very best at their new home, we are holding no grudges against them, and are impressed with their pillage and burn strategy.

Ask if there is anything we can do to help them make the transition to their new home as easy as possible, so that they can escape with minimal bloodshed.
Ask when they would like to declare peace between our nations.


This may go down better than
"you bunch of exploit-abusing sucks had better declare peace or we will embargo GWT till the end of the game"

	15-12-2003 09:23									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Or a note to GCA congratulating them on finding an innovative escape route. We wish them the very best at their new home, we are holding no grudges against them, and are impressed with their pillage and burn strategy. Ask if there is anything we can do to help them make the transition to their new home as easy as possible, so that they can escape with minimal bloodshed. Ask when they would like to declare peace between our nations. This may go down better than "you bunch of exploit-abusing sucks had better declare peace or we will embargo GWT till the end of the game"

Unfortunately, knowing Lucky, they will go down about equally well

Unless we have someone from GCA who is more level-headed than Lucky to communicate with, I doubt the efficacy of contacting GCA to solve this.

So contacting Mongoose201 makes sense because we can AT LEAST check whether GCA is permitted to remain at war indefinately. If they ARE, then we know we're approaching the situation on those terms.

	15-12-2003 09:31									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think HE is being the level head in this. Let's not jump to battle stations before we chat with Mongoose, and at least try to talk to GCA.

	15-12-2003 09:34									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Mongoose first of course

	15-12-2003 09:37									#24
	Report Turn 139, 210 AD Tired of ads?

Escaped out of empty CGN diplomacy screen.
Accepted all build orders.

Cities built: Chiquita (1 of old Possum site) and Power of Victory (old BOP site).

Unit Moves

Southern Front:

- BFC Horse in PoV fortifies
- Cat Fire in PoV fortifies
- Cat Trasher in PoV fortifies
- Cat Gate Crasher in PoV fortifies
- Cat Basher in PoV fortifies

- Horse Incensity moved 1-4-2 to Anarchy iron mountain to scout, sees nothing
- Horse Bingo moves 1-7 to scout out Silk 8 and 8-9 and gets out of range from GCA attackers; sees 4/4 GCA MI at Silk 8 and 3/3 GCA Galley at Silk 8-7; also sees GCA main army at Blacksand 9 (3 Pikes, 2 Spears, 1 Sword, 2 Horses, 2 Workers)
- Horse Tripoli moves 6 and fortifies to heal
- Horse Vondrack fortifies where he is (Anarchy 8)
- Horse Trip's Guard III remains fortified where he is (Anarchy 8)

- The rest of the main army at Anarchy 8 moves 2-2 to the forest; it will move 1 to the roaded silks then either 4 or 1 adjacent to Silk the turn after that. Units moved: Catapults: Fling, Hurl, Toss, HoD, Smasher, Kloreepult, Simon, Possum, Karina; NMs: Taxi, Mao, Enamel, Sharpe, Waiter; MIs: Steelglove, Scourge, Theseus, Aidun, Hack, E_T, Robin, Bananatopia

Central Front:

- Horse conmcHorse moves 7-8-9-9-8-7; heading for western front as GCA Galley moves north
- Horse Bambi moves 9-8-9-9 for the same purpose
- Horse Togas moves 6-9-9-8 for the same purpose

Western Front:

- NM Zargon moves 3 to cover mountain landing site
- Warrior not_panag moves 3-6-6 to cover roaded mountain landing site
- MI MrWIA moves 8 to head back towards the road
- MI BFI moves 6-6-9 and attacks Barb 2/2 Warrior; attacks and kills 2/2 Barb Warrior, remains 4/4

Core Unit Moves:

- New MI MJW (from Mingapulco) moves 1-1-1; heading for the west front
- MI Vlad moves 1-1-1; doing the same
- New Horse BigHorse (from Apolyton) moves 1-1-1-1-1-1; doing the same
- NM Dominae moves 2; heading back from the north
- NM Panzer attacks barb camp at 3; kills 2/2 Warrior, loses 1 HP, promoted to elite

Other Misc Moves:

- AIS Seeker moves 3-3-3; kills the 2/2 Barb Galley in the process, down to 1/3
- AIS Princess of Apolyton moves 7 and fortifies; watching GWT front and getting a look at the fort 2 of Sudspitze

Workers and Settlers:

- Dan & Gits - road (done)
- Frodo & Out of Darness - road (done)
- Spike & Moosefarts - tile cleared, workers frozen. Will road next turn.
- Go3 (MrWIA, EVC and Dejon) - move to Nevermore 4 (Iron) and Mine (2 turns to complete)
- Sanchez - start roading (2 turns to complete)
- Yo & Slave Anarchy - road built, workers frozen
- rah - move 2, will road next turn

- Settler Founder moves 2-2-1

Economy

City Builds:

Apolyton changed to Horse (finished Horse)
Mingapulco changed to Market (finished MI)
Chiquita set to Market
Power of Victory set to Walls

WF:

Apolyton - starting WF 3-5-8-13-14 (working Game). Change dWF to 3-4-8-13-14
Mingapulco - starting WF 2-3-6-9-10. Changed WF to 3-6-9-10-11 (working game).
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-13-20. Changed WF to 1-2-3-12-20.
LuxInvicta - WF at 1-3-8-11.
Elucidium Novum - WF at 2-8.
PoV - Set WF to 3.
Chiquita - Set WF to 1.

Summary:

GPT: +58
GNP: 207
MFG: 91
Prod: 277

Invention in 18 turns

	15-12-2003 09:59									#26
	Tired of ads?

Failing all else, we make it plain to GWT. They snuff GCA, or they play 1 vs CGN and Poly. We will be as vindictive towards them as they are allowing GCA to be vindictive towards us. Do we think they really want to throw in the towel like that? That is what they would be doing.

Worst case. We ensure that CGN has an endless supply of gold to upgrade hordes of horsemen to knights. Would they really want that?

Of course, peace with GCA would avoid the whole bad scene. It is just that there is more than one way to get peace with GCA.

	15-12-2003 10:02									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

BTW, look at the situation on the map, wouldn't an approach to GCA now re an end to this be the right thing to do?

	15-12-2003 10:06									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Woops, looks like my change of Chiquita from Archer to Market didn't stick (I remember changing it). Oh well, at least we aren't finishing anything next turn.

NYE: I think approaching GCA first, then GWT and Mongoose with an official complaint may be the best way to work things out.

	15-12-2003 10:08									#29
	Re: Report Turn 139, 210 AD Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Trip Escaped out of empty CGN diplomacy screen.

Press 'Exit' and maybe it will stop coming up.

	15-12-2003 10:08									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

Not until they are gone off of the Continent. Besides, GCA won't talk "peace" with us; that's pretty much a law in their minds by now.