14-12-2003 11:24									#61
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Ok, as far as the higher tolerance for lesbians -- that is based on the double standard in that it satisfies heterosexual men's sex fantasies and heterosexual men are the ones who dominate society.


Back to one of my initial questions -- to what extent is homophobia based on scapegoating in Western nations?

It seems that heterosexuals have desacralized marriage, but they want to ignore the reality that this is an internal problem, so they scapegoat homosexuals for this problem that originated from within heterosexual society.

	14-12-2003 13:29									#62
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I get homophobia whenever someone talks incessantly about their sexual orientations.

	14-12-2003 13:30									#63
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my theory still stands. homophobes are either gay themselves, or are scared they could turn gay.

	14-12-2003 13:40									#64
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever By whom? I like being fingered up the ass, but only by girls.

ewww :vomit: I hate it when women do that.

	14-12-2003 13:56									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley any explanations on why female homosexuality is more accepted than male homosexuality?

There's less chance of getting bummed. QED.

	14-12-2003 14:00									#66
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quote: ewww :vomit: I hate it when women do that.

That's where your g-spot is though.
-
I agree with you on the insecurity though, perhaps not an all conclusive theory but I do think it account's for quite alot.

	14-12-2003 14:18									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I am sure there are people who would find you completely repulsive. I am sure your girlfriend worships the ground you walk on. Simple fact is, it is all subjective. Men may seem 'yucky' to you. To Starchild or MrFun, women may seem 'yucky'. See, it's all about perspective, frame of reference...

I may have seemed so, but I really meant no disrespect. It is the truth that most men find homosexuality (not homosexuals) somewhat repulsive. Why search for elaborate reasons for homophobia, when the truth could just as well be a general unease because, well because the thought of men banging men is just darn yucky, dammit.

Asmodean

	14-12-2003 17:12									#68
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I must admit that Laz's theory makes the most sense so far.

	14-12-2003 17:44									#69
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It'd be interesting to get a homophobe's opinion- however, I've never seen anyone admit to being a homophobe... "Yes, I think gays are sick, the Bible says it is an abomination and they are all going to hell, and if one ever hit on me I'd beat the snot out of them- but don't dare call me a homophobe, this is just my opinion, I don't hate fags at all!".

	14-12-2003 23:44									#70
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Well, there are a couple of Apolytoners on here that I perceive as being homophobic.

And Shi -- I can't swallow your explanation on why you think secular homophobia is more virulent than hard-religious homophobia.

	15-12-2003 00:37									#71
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did you have to use the word swallow?

	15-12-2003 00:49									#72
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As long as it's away from my arse, you can be whatever you want.

	15-12-2003 01:09									#73
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Sexism is the root of homophobia. Men and women have defined roles within society. Feminists undermine it from one direction, and gays from another.

	15-12-2003 04:17									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident did you have to use the word swallow?

Interesting possibility, Chegitz.

	15-12-2003 05:47									#75
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Ok, as far as the higher tolerance for lesbians -- that is based on the double standard in that it satisfies heterosexual men's sex fantasies and heterosexual men are the ones who dominate society. Back to one of my initial questions -- to what extent is homophobia based on scapegoating in Western nations? It seems that heterosexuals have desacralized marriage, but they want to ignore the reality that this is an internal problem, so they scapegoat homosexuals for this problem that originated from within heterosexual society.

I dont think gay men satisfy heterosexual women's fantasies. atleast of the ones I've asked.

	15-12-2003 09:55									#76
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Sexism is the root of homophobia. Men and women have defined roles within society. Feminists undermine it from one direction, and gays from another.

Bingo!

Men (higher status and power) who want to be women are considered sick, and treated with disdain and worse. Women who want to be men are considered "cute" and not taken seriously. While in their minds it is natural that the woman would want to be a man, it is laughable that she thinks she can do what men do. In both cases this is hard treatment.

Of course I'm not saying that homosexuals want to be a different gender, but this is the initial perception of society, and it has surpising longevity despite massive evidence to the contrary.

	15-12-2003 10:53									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Wasn't it Freud who claimed that all humans are inherently bisexual? If Freud is correct, there must be a reason why people aspire to monosexuality.

Freud is a nutcase. Besides, there's absolutely no way to falsify his theory.

	15-12-2003 10:57									#78
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Is there any difference between homophobia and other phobias, such as arachophobia? Some people fear snakes, some fear heights, some fear enclosed spaces.

	15-12-2003 13:53									#79
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Sexism is the root of homophobia. Men and women have defined roles within society. Feminists undermine it from one direction, and gays from another.

best argument in the thread.

	15-12-2003 19:20									#80
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon I dont think gay men satisfy heterosexual women's fantasies. atleast of the ones I've asked.

Uh . . . . this was not my argument.

	15-12-2003 19:26									#81
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quote: Men and women have defined roles within society. Feminists undermine it from one direction, and gays from another.

I'd agree that this is the best way to explain "homophobia" in the thread , if only because it is the only unbiased one (if you ignore his first ridiculous sentence).

I don't like gays that are blatantly open about it. I don't mind knowing and conversing with them as a fellow male, but usually their behaviour is different and it's that which I don't like. Campness in straight people also gets on my nerves. I'm not equating campness with gayness per se though.

	15-12-2003 19:27									#82
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I have a question to those who think homosexuality is disgusting and unnatural here:
Are you outraged the same at the idea of men sodomizing women? If not, what exactly in a homosexual relation strikes you as "disgusting"? Or what makes same-sex sodomy any more disgusting than inter-sex sodomy?

	15-12-2003 20:04									#83
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quote: I have a question to those who think homosexuality is disgusting and unnatural here:

There should be an "/or" after the "and" here.

Nope, not outraged 'bout sodomizing women if you really need to know. Quite good actually
-

What I find appauling(in a sexual way) on men has much more to do with both smell and hair,then anything else. * shivers *
I don't get aroused, hmm put off is a better choice of words, because of how they smell. Well, it is a hormone thing, isn't it.
To me a male just coming from under the shower still smells yuk, while a female having exercised all day long still smells nice.

	15-12-2003 20:07									#84
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Interesting possibility, Chegitz.

Hence the origin of the term, heterosexism.

	15-12-2003 21:55									#85
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More fuel for the fire:

One of my favorite behaviorist media studies is one that corrolates male homophobia with male responses to gay porn. It works this way: first, subjects are given a long questionaire designed to determine sexual inclinations and prejudices on a variety of topics; then the subjects are shown a series of pornographic images while wired to machinery that's measuring their physiological responses. Invariably, high responses on homophobia and intolerance of gays correlate with high arousal at gay male pornographic images.

And that, I think, is the whole game. Sexuality is an amorphous, slippery thing; but social ideology about sexuality insists that is is fixed, concrete, and unchanging. In the wide gap between what society tells us to think about sexuality, and how we actually experience sexuality, only two things can grow: the flower of skepticism about social ideologies, or the noxious weed of homophobia. And I'm sitting here using flower metaphors, so you can guess where I stand on all this.

	15-12-2003 22:01									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly More fuel for the fire: One of my favorite behaviorist media studies is one that corrolates male homophobia with male responses to gay porn. It works this way: first, subjects are given a long questionaire designed to determine sexual inclinations and prejudices on a variety of topics; then the subjects are shown a series of pornographic images while wired to machinery that's measuring their physiological responses. Invariably, high responses on homophobia and intolerance of gays correlate with high arousal at gay male pornographic images. And that, I think, is the whole game. Sexuality is an amorphous, slippery thing; but social ideology about sexuality insists that is is fixed, concrete, and unchanging. In the wide gap between what society tells us to think about sexuality, and how we actually experience sexuality, only two things can grow: the flower of skepticism about social ideologies, or the noxious weed of homophobia. And I'm sitting here using flower metaphors, so you can guess where I stand on all this.

You're just a home in denial
Erm, I mean:
You're just an homo NOT in denial

Disclaimer: This post was meant entirely in jest

	15-12-2003 22:52									#87
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Rufus!

	15-12-2003 23:03									#88
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IMO, homophobia is caused by an insecurity with ones own sexuality... Not so much on what their own sexuality is, but in that most ppl who are homophobic are not comfortable talking about sex (:snicker:, I said sex) in general, and ussually only do so as a "jest" with friends or with their SOs in intimate situations. This may be due to religious undertones, or other more conservative ideaologies, I have no idea, and it really doesn't matter. As a result of this "taboo"-ness that is placed on sex, homophobes see homosexuals as the embodiment of sexual freedom and discovery, and thus fear them... for their openness.

	15-12-2003 23:06									#89
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Japher, you realize that you said something serious, rather than some lame joke?

	15-12-2003 23:11									#90
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I try to say something serious at least once a month... keeps me off certain ppls ignore list