14-12-2003 19:37									#121
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quote: The politics here is a lot simpler that the law.

Your problem is that you think the law matters in this case. There's no precedent for this, which is why political decisions are going to win the day.

	14-12-2003 19:40									#122
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Isn't Joe Lieberman a d*ck?

On Meet the Press, first he said "if Howard Dean were President, Saddam would be in power and not in prison", and then 5 minutes later he turns around, uses his double face and says "today is a day we need to drop labels" and not politicise things. Turning the event into a political thing this soon is already bad enough, but turning around and giving out the soundbite to the opposite, in the same segment of the same goddamn show, is just ridiculous.

	14-12-2003 19:41									#123
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quote: Your problem is that you think the law matters in this case. There's no precedent for this, which is why political

No precedent for war criminals to be tried in an international court? Really?

	14-12-2003 19:42									#124
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quote: No precedent for war criminals to be tried in an international court? Really?

Not for war criminals captured in a military action that didn't have clear international sanction...

	14-12-2003 19:46									#125
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Watched the conference live, that was quite interesting. A big thumbs-up to the coalition forces.

Ming - any way I can see Bush's conference online today?

	14-12-2003 19:51									#126
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Has he said where those WMD´s are?

Edit: and yes, cool pic Mad Monk

	14-12-2003 19:56									#127
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IIRC, the Iraqi Governing Council removed the death penalty. In which casem there is only one other option left for him.



SAN QUENTIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	14-12-2003 19:57									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty Then what is he?

an alien?

	14-12-2003 19:57									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: The politics here is a lot simpler that the law. Your problem is that you think the law matters in this case. There's no precedent for this, which is why political decisions are going to win the day.

Just read up on the Iraqi council's plans for the tribunal: it would be largely based on the nuremberg model, including new changes made for new tribulas dealing with Bosnia and Rwanda, and the council members have stated that crimes vs. Iran and Kuwait would be considered. They would abide by the Geneva Convention on this matter.

So I was wrong to say that this Iraq court's jurisdiction was questionable, since they are basing thier tribunal on existing international ones using international law.

	14-12-2003 19:58									#130
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"Nowehere will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy".

	14-12-2003 19:58									#131
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Finally, now we can have the sitcom we always wanted:

"Slobo and Saddy" - Slobodon Milosevic has just receieved a new roomate in his cell: Saddam Hussein. Watch as Saddy uses Slobo's deoderant and snores at night. Hilarity ensues.

	14-12-2003 19:59									#132
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The http://news.bbc.co.uk/ website will probably run bushs speech live. If not I am sure they will have it afterwards when they put their normal broadcast online. You need realplayer to see it.

	14-12-2003 19:59									#133
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thats not a sitcom, thats a reality show

	14-12-2003 20:00									#134
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quote: So I was wrong to say that this Iraq court's jurisdiction was questionable, since they are basing thier tribunal on existing international ones using international law.

Yes. You've yet to give one concrete reason why an Iraqi tribunal's jurisdiction would be questionable under international law. Come on, GePap, give us a reason.

	14-12-2003 20:01									#135
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""Slobo and Saddy" - Slobodon Milosevic has just receieved a new roomate in his cell: Saddam Hussein. Watch as Saddy uses Slobo's deoderant and snores at night. Hilarity ensues."


They can share old memories about how nice it was to kill people and stuff....

	14-12-2003 20:05									#136
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with that attitude you'll never make it in television

	14-12-2003 20:14									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: So I was wrong to say that this Iraq court's jurisdiction was questionable, since they are basing thier tribunal on existing international ones using international law. Yes. You've yet to give one concrete reason why an Iraqi tribunal's jurisdiction would be questionable under international law. Come on, GePap, give us a reason.

Nice doge; well, actualy, not nice, rather disappointing from you. Since the Iraqi tribulanl is using international law as its foundation, it would have jurisdiction, and validate international law itself. I wonder though how you will parcel post and edit this post? Maybe as honestly as you did the previous?

	14-12-2003 20:21									#138
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quote: Nice doge; well, actualy, not nice, rather disappointing from you. Since the Iraqi tribulanl is using international law as its foundation, it would have jurisdiction, and validate international law itself. I wonder though how you will parcel post and edit this post? Maybe as honestly as you did the previous?

What does any of this have to do with the original argument? I said that the US would send Saddam to an Iraqi court, not an international tribunal. First, you claimed there was no Iraqi court. Then, when proven wrong on that count, you tried to portray the Iraqi court as not having jurisdiction on the prosecution of their own former dictator. When questioned on this silly argument, you didn't provide any actual reasons why the Iraqi court's jurisdiction would come into question; you just proceeded to embark on some "point" about the Iraqi court using international law as its basis for prosecuting Hussein, which has no relevance at all to the original argument.

Then, you try to accuse me of "dodgeing"...

	14-12-2003 20:21									#139
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I guess you two didn't take my earlier warning very seriously...

ENOUGH WITH THE PERSONAL CRAP!

You will not be warned again... just restricted!

	14-12-2003 20:22									#140
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San Quentin? That's an option.. maybe they make Saddam share a room with Bubba, and Bubba will show where he wants to hide his WMD.

	14-12-2003 20:22									#141
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I suspect the Iraqi Governing Council will make a provision that will make Saddam eligible for the death penalty.

	14-12-2003 20:23									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka San Quentin? That's an option.. maybe they make Saddam share a room with Bubba, and Bubba will show where he wants to hide his WMD.

And enough with the spam as well...

	14-12-2003 20:24									#143
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quote: I guess you two didn't take my earlier warning very seriously... ENOUGH WITH THE PERSONAL CRAP! You will not be warned again... just restricted!

Are you talking to me? I don't think I've said any personal crap thus far...

	14-12-2003 20:27									#144
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quote: I just wonder about that medical exam video. Is it really ok to display a prisoner like that?

it's public humiliation of the defeated in the year 2003. the romans were dragging them around in the streets. we show them being examined by a dentist

then again, they couldnt just show a video of him just standing, they didnt have one. they showed whatever first came to their hands i'm telling you, this was not planned

	14-12-2003 20:27									#145
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Whether we find WMD's or not (and it's more likely that we find them, now that he's caught) but even if we don't find them, I would consider us to have completed our victory in iraq.

Now bring our boys home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	14-12-2003 20:29									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten What does any of this have to do with the original argument? I said that the US would send Saddam to an Iraqi court, not an international tribunal. First, you claimed there was no Iraqi court. Then, when proven wrong on that count, you tried to portray the Iraqi court as not having jurisdiction on the prosecution of their own former dictator. When questioned on this silly argument, you didn't provide any actual reasons why the Iraqi court's jurisdiction would come into question; you just proceeded to embark on some "point" about the Iraqi court using international law as its basis for prosecuting Hussein, which has no relevance at all to the original argument. Then, you try to accuse me of "dodgeing"...

Arrgh!

The tribunal set up is being set up on the model of other international tribunals, with the difference being that it is set up by the Governing Council. The council is claiming to have jurisdiction based on INTERNATIONAL LAW already existing, NOT UNDER IRAQI LAW, for which there is no precendent, given that there is no new Iraqi constitution yet to replace the Baathist one. Saddam will be charged not for violating Iraqi law, but international laws that are universal such as crimes against humanity and war crimes.

	14-12-2003 20:30									#147
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Well, this certainly beats my news about how it's snowing here again.

Found in a hole with mice and rats, no gun and $750,000...I think it's reasonable to say he wasn't coordinating any resistance to U.S. occupation--he was just running for his life.

Oh, I can just guess when the trial will be...

	14-12-2003 20:31									#148
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quote: Originally posted by connorkimbro Whether we find WMD's or not (and it's more likely that we find them, now that he's caught) but even if we don't find them, I would consider us to have completed our victory in iraq. Now bring our boys home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt Hussein was coordinating resistance, and I'm betting it could even intensify now that he's captured. Until that's stamped out and Iraq is stable, mission not accomplished and our boys have to stay and finish what we started.

	14-12-2003 20:35									#149
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quote: The tribunal set up is being set up on the model of other international tribunals, with the difference being that it is set up by the Governing Council. The council is claiming to have jurisdiction based on INTERNATIONAL LAW already existing, NOT UNDER IRAQI LAW, for which there is no precendent, given that there is no new Iraqi constitution yet to replace the Baathist one.

That doesn't make it an "international tribunal" by any stretch of the imagination. I suppose you think the Nuremburg tribunals were "international" as well?

quote: Saddam will be charged not for violating Iraqi law, but international laws that are universal such as crimes against humanity and war crimes.

Of course he will be; did you actually think he would be prosecuted under anything other than international law? Even if Iraq had a code of laws in place, most domestic legal codes don't deal with genocide and other war crimes. That's what international law is for.

	14-12-2003 20:41									#150
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How about it if we build an arena in Basra for his trial, which in the spirit of the new Iraqi constitution would be led by a religious judge, and let everyone in the audience bring two bricks along. Punishment would be carried out in the good old fashioned way - stoneing.