16-12-2003 14:44									#91
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we'll take them. Spanish food is good. I'm not sure about Polish food. We have a polish restaraunt in my city now. But I'm not sure about Polish food.

	16-12-2003 14:51									#92
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i like them mostly cause i feel sorry for them. my ancestors were refugees after all. but they were an innovative melting pot back i nthe day, likea little america. so they are ok in my book

	16-12-2003 15:10									#93
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Poles sell good geese for Christmas, although they stuff them not exactly in a goose-friendly way. But most people don't care about this.

	16-12-2003 15:17									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Wow, I'm sure the Luxemburgers will feel honored that you consider each of them of having the worth of 200 Germans. WTG democracy

Yes, they'll feel just like Utah.

	16-12-2003 15:31									#95
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Very funny.

	16-12-2003 15:39									#96
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Thank you.

	16-12-2003 16:01									#97
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Well, some thoughs

1) First of all, I dare to say that I'm a little disappointed with this thread because I feel that these complaints, that I can understand, about Spanish and Polish position could have been expresed without that bashing (specially against Poland...)

2) The point is that there's already a teatry in UE, the Nize teatry. The new constitution, I've read it, is very good and I like it, but the thing is that Spain and Poland will lose what they won in Nice without getting any advantage. For instance, Spain lost a number of seats in the European Parlament; in order to lost the advantages of Nice, at least these seats should be offered back. Plus, Polonia and other countries have voted the UE's ingress under one teatry (Nice) and now we want to change it even when these new countries haven't joined yet - Well, it could be difficult to a nation to tell their citiziens: You've approved Nice, now we're going to change BEFORE we joined the UE...

3) If we're speaking of democracy "one man=one vote", then we should override the 50% of states part... But, we're not going to do that, becuase the little (in population) countries will never accept that. So, what we have?

-A 50% of the states: that's very good for little (in population) countries.
-A 60% of UE population: that's very good for big (in population) countries (Germany, France, UK and Italy)

Neither Poland or Spain fits in those categories, so they're a little disappointed with the constitution.

4) For internal political reasons, Spain and Poland's prime ministers can return to their countries as "losers". In fact, nobody in Europe can. So, I think that Germany and France should have make a better deal (in fact, Aznar, Spanish Prime Minister, was willing to negotiate one deal) so all can say "we won".

5) The European Presidency, in Berlusconi's hand until the end of the year, have done a very poor job, IMHO. This problem should have been deal with much earlier and not only in three days.

6) That's only about Spain. I know that Aznar is not an europeist. Being myself an europeist, I feel shamed many times by Aznar's behaviour towards the Union. I like this constitution and I hope a deal will be reached soon in order to approve that, maybe with a minor modification about the votes, despite Aznar's behaviour. Some solutions have been sugested: for instance, to increment the population needed to 66%, that will give Poland and Spain more or less the same power that in Nice. The problem is that give Germany even more power, so some other European members are not for it.

7) Giscard d'Estain is not a friend of Spain. He didn't help Spain against ETA when he governed, and he hasn't been very nice and diplomatic towards Spain in this constitution's process. This is just my humble opinion, and I can be wrong (In fact, I'm many times wrong).

So... Why we don't work together to modify a little the constitution and work a solution for Poland and Spain? This constitution seems to be great

	16-12-2003 16:24									#98
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I agree with your thoughs, but I dont worry about the outcome. Building the EU is a difficult and long process.

About bashing, with the notable exception of some retarded posters who express their prejudices with the intent to hurt, in this thread the Poles or even sometimes... the French , most often it is just teasing which could even be funny.

	16-12-2003 17:25									#99
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Yes Heresson, we'lll eave the Union as you join, and then we'll open a new union and everyone will join ours and then you'll want to join too and the debate starts over.

	18-12-2003 16:17									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Poles sell good geese for Christmas, although they stuff them not exactly in a goose-friendly way. But most people don't care about this.

Not any more. It was something like 1997 that feeding goose in a bit cruel was was banned.

quote: Yes Heresson, we'lll eave the Union as you join, and then we'll open a new union and everyone will join ours and then you'll want to join too and the debate starts over.

Too much self-confidence, though there's something in it.
Just that that comment doesn't bring anything into the discussion - just like mine earlier, and your earlier.
You're my greatest master of spam. I sallute You.

	18-12-2003 18:09									#101
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Guess who is really to blame!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ent/3327115.stm

I normally take conspiracy theories with a shovelfull of salt but this one is just too believable (even from the BBC).

	18-12-2003 20:47									#102
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Let's invade Poland and make it a EU protectorate rather than have them join by these ways.

	18-12-2003 21:09									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Let's invade Poland and make it a EU protectorate rather than have them join by these ways.

Should have followed with a "Been there. Done that."

	18-12-2003 21:28									#104
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Guess who is really to blame!

On ne prète qu'aux riches !

In Le Canard enchaîné, this week, a cartoon shows two muscular CIA guys, standing in front of Saddam and presenting to him a picture of Chirac. They say : What can you tell us about your friend?

If really a man alone is able to cause havoc in the ME and in Europe the same year, I think he deserves some admiration.

	18-12-2003 21:46									#105
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France and Germany are like these two bullies at school. Other one is the big fat kid bully, and the other one is the stupid bully who follows around and kisses the big bullies butt, for not to get beat up and to get respect from small normal ones. But what they don't understand is they really don't get any respect. All they get is despice of others. They will end up losers, never leaving the home town, other one misses the reunion because is in jail and drug addict, the other one shows up but gets beaten up and girls who are now turn to succesful women laugh at them and only make out with the normal kids. Even the class nerd tosses the bully around and everyone has a blast. They'll go on and continue their lives, but the bully goes home and cry, then gets angry and 'screw everyone' attitude, goes to biker bar and starts trouble resulting to getting beaten to death with chains and run over by harley davidson.

No one comes to his funeral. He prolly goes to hell too. His only 'friend' might have come if he wasn't being buttraped at the same time in prison.

	18-12-2003 21:48									#106
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Correction is in order: The big fat bullies are Chirac and Schroeder.

	18-12-2003 22:25									#107
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Actually you make the impression of being a bully yourself.

	18-12-2003 22:30									#108
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It takes a few more posts to go from impression to certainty. Dont worry, it is absolutely normal.

	18-12-2003 22:31									#109
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I've seen enough posts from Pekka and "unintelligent bully" is exactly my certain impression of him

	18-12-2003 22:36									#110
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Fat kids! Biker chains!
I know I talk loud, but I don't boss anyone around.
You should check out my signature. I'm Supercitizen. I defend the weak ones. Because I'm SupppaCittizen powerfull, I'm a fighter, like a bull, He calls the right, he calls the wrong
He is the one who HITS THE GOOOOOOOOOOONG!!!

	18-12-2003 22:37									#111
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Guys like you, Pekka, guys like you...

and we all know of what I speak

	18-12-2003 22:38									#112
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And I don't mind your insults. I mean, you can throw them in the air and you know I just don't care. It gives you the intellectual superiority attacking me personally.

	18-12-2003 22:39									#113
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Guys like me rock.

	18-12-2003 22:40									#114
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Who's attacking anyone personally.

That girl rejected you because she knows what kine of lout you are.

	18-12-2003 22:41									#115
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of course the Birts are the mega lager louts of the union.

	18-12-2003 22:42									#116
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You. You are now attacking me personally. But hey, you know, go ahead. I can take it. It's not like I get depressed, pop million pills and kill myself if something doesn't go my way.

	18-12-2003 22:45									#117
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no, you'll just boss people around instead to compensate...

	18-12-2003 22:49									#118
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Yeah, but I don't boss around people either. As you see, I'm being loud about countries, and then I changed it to their leaders, because I don't think I should bash the countries, because it's something citizens kind of represents and that would be unfair. So I changed it to their leaders instead. People might still get offended, but hey that's the risk I'm willing to take.

So, I don't know where you get the impression that I boss around people. I don't boss around people. I don't tell people what to do.

	18-12-2003 22:52									#119
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you're also a loud lout about your life.

	18-12-2003 22:53									#120
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but I have to go now for a while, so excuse me if I don't defend for a short while to your attacks pulled from your head. You can continue the 'slaughtering' though, I mean if you don't like my character I only think it's fair you express yourself with your full capacity and say what's on your mind, so you don't have to bury it deep into your mind. Say it out loud if it makes you feel better.

Danke!

Loud about my life? Fair enough. If you don't want to hear about it, just don't read the threads about them. I know it's kind of egoistical in a way, but hey, I admit it. I don't feel ashamed a bit. If you want to be the quiet one in the corner, be my guest. If you want to join the loudness, welcome. Come on, let it all out.