15-12-2003 16:00									#1
	Spain and Poland can join the United States for all I care Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

But the cowards won't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3317055.stm

Discuss now about the pros and cons of wanting all benefits of a free market without ceding responsibility to the demographically stronger. And about how democratic a system is where 40=80.

	15-12-2003 16:04									#2
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Germany can sink into the ocean for all I care.

	15-12-2003 16:05									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion And about how democratic a system is where 40=80.

That's not democracy, that's just bad math.

Unless you are trying to imply, that democracy = bad math

	15-12-2003 16:09									#4
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I'm sure Putin won't mind taking Poland back...

	15-12-2003 16:11									#5
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The problem is nobody (in this case: Spain) will trade in a good deal for a worse one. And 40 mill Poles are worth just as much as 40 mill Spaniards.
If you want to blame someone blame those who gave them unfavourable voting rights in the first place.

Last edited by Gangerolf on 15-12-2003 at 16:53

	15-12-2003 16:15									#6
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France and Germany, while dispising the US, seem to be acting more and more like it

	15-12-2003 16:49									#7
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You mean, like when a 80 million country feels it should weigh more in negociation than a 40 mil. country?

What next, will you advocate that Luxembourg and its luxurious 400,000 population has the same weight as Germany and its 80 mil?

	15-12-2003 16:52									#8
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Yes.

	15-12-2003 16:54									#9
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Wow, I'm sure the Luxemburgers will feel honored that you consider each of them of having the worth of 200 Germans.

WTG democracy

	15-12-2003 16:58									#10
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Say, for some fluke of logic, China were to join. I'm sure you and your nation would change your mind in a hurry.

	15-12-2003 16:58									#11
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We will see what Poland and Spain will have to say about their absolute equality, when it comes to the subject of monetary contributions next time.

	15-12-2003 16:59									#12
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Well just wait for france and germany to fix their economies... then they can start giving orders to others...

	15-12-2003 17:00									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Say, for some fluke of logic, China were to join. I'm sure you and your nation would change your mind in a hurry.

My nation, most probably, because it is led by an opportunistic *******. But I wouldn't.

The point is void, however, because I'm for the outright abolition of the Council of Ministers, and favourable to concentrate the actual power in the European Parliament.

	15-12-2003 17:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor But I wouldn't.

	15-12-2003 17:07									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph We will see what Poland and Spain will have to say about their absolute equality, when it comes to the subject of monetary contributions next time.

You mean Poland will actually make a contribution?? Wow, I'm impressed, ach, wait a minute; I don't think sending women across Europe counts.

	15-12-2003 17:08									#16
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I'm a strong believer of the "one man one vote" doctrine.

That's why I'm opposed to the Council of Ministers (the institution over which the quibble is held), because it basically considers that a whole country agrees with what the bureaucrat in the negociation room says.

	15-12-2003 17:08									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Say, for some fluke of logic, China were to join. I'm sure you and your nation would change your mind in a hurry.

This is purely hypothetical, since the whole point of unifying Europe is to create a counterweight to existing and emerging powers like China. So who would let them in?

	15-12-2003 17:12									#18
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"Fluke of logic" as in "It's never going to happen however I am using this as an extreme example to make a point"

	15-12-2003 17:21									#19
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quote: Germany can sink into the ocean for all I care.

This will be a great day for the Austrian navy.

quote: You mean Poland will actually make a contribution?? Wow, I'm impressed, ach, wait a minute; I don't think sending women across Europe counts.

Let everyone contribute in the currency that fits him.

quote: "Fluke of logic" as in "It's never going to happen however I am using this as an extreme example to make a point"

Granted, but that would be a bit of extreme indeed, since China has more than twice the population as Europe has together.

	15-12-2003 17:25									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Granted, but that would be a bit of extreme indeed, since China has more than twice the population as Europe has together.

What did i just say?

	15-12-2003 17:38									#21
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If China joined the EU, they should get most of the votes. It's that simple.

	15-12-2003 17:39									#22
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Are you people mad?!
Or just trolling me?

	15-12-2003 17:42									#23
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you know, the poles should split themselves again between germany and russia.

that way, they get the perks of being ze germans.

	15-12-2003 17:51									#24
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I don't see what's wrong with the current system. It requires 50% of the countries (thus making sure that the small guys like luxemburg don't get shafted) and 60% of the population (meaning that most of the big countries have to agree).

	15-12-2003 17:51									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman If China joined the EU, they should get most of the votes. It's that simple.

We should invite both China and the Russian Federation to join immediately. Then economic policy can be decided in Beijing, military policy in Moscow, Chirac and Schoeder can be appointed EU agriculture inspectors in Mongolia and the USA can be quarantined from the rest of the planet until the americans are prepared to behave like good europeans.

	15-12-2003 17:55									#26
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It's a great plan.

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	15-12-2003 18:00									#27
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I can see why the UK's mostly keeping out of this fight.

With populations decreasing in France and Germany, and increasing in the UK, its in our interest to keep population as a lever to power.

However, its nice also to have a european counter weight to France and Germany, and up to now, Spain and Poland and the UK seem to be doing that.

Personally though, this is silly politics, and power should be given at population levels .. as long as this is updated all the time. The real question is how much power should the EU have as a whole ??

	15-12-2003 18:06									#28
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If Spain and Poland have something to contribute to the overall bettering of the EU then they should get the same number of votes as the bigger guys. Just like how Alaska should get more votes than Texas because we have more oil.

	15-12-2003 18:28									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed you know, the poles should split themselves again between germany and russia. that way, they get the perks of being ze germans.

Good idea that. I heard recently, that Poland hides WoMDs. I found evidence in form of chemical and biological residue in my Polish christmas goose.

We immediately should send two million inspectors.

With tanks.

	15-12-2003 18:32									#30
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quote: With populations decreasing in France and Germany, and increasing in the UK, its in our interest to keep population as a lever to power.

France has the highest birth rate of any EU member. Their population is growing.