20-12-2003 10:28									#31
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Then again, Sava has never (to my recollection) expressed such pathetic remarks towards homosexuals. Perhaps I was wrong...

	20-12-2003 10:29									#32
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quote: socalled 'butch' homosexuals

	20-12-2003 10:30									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Which means USA is valuing Bayer's profits over the life of millions. Bayer's profits allow it to save billions (through R&D). So would you rather see, millions or billions dead? Looks like you picked billions, you butcher .

They are not making any profit in the Third World, because no one there can afford their drugs.

Is too much to ask them, say, every time they sell a pill in the US, they have to send one in humanitarian help?
R&D is costly, but manufacturing is nothing anyway. This is what I call a reasonable compromise that makes both profits and social justice possible.

But the US government will NEVER do it. They are defending free market only when it serves their interest (see: agricultural subsidies). They are not even close to having a morally coherent point of view.

Free market can only stay "FREE" as long as someone who is not interested in profit is making sure it does. THAT should be the government's work. And you can expect any corporation in the world to fight to the death to prevent this from ever happening.

As long as the government remain allied with huge corporations on that matter, I will consider it a THREAT.

	20-12-2003 10:32									#34
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Again: Bayer is a German company. You don't like the way they do business, go whine at the Germans.

Secondly: Where in the world did you get the idea that only the US subsidizes agriculture? Or is your argument based upon the belief that only US subsidies are detrimental to the third world?

Wait... maybe I'm not if you include Europe in your definition of "Third World".

	20-12-2003 10:37									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc I never said that homosexuals can't treat woman correctly. Homosexual can treat woman very good. However many socalled 'butch' homosexuals have very bad experience with woman. They stay in trenches too long. Or they are in strange schools. Or they are too long with stockbrokers.

First, I don't know that Scaife is a homosexual--I've never seen anything stating he was. Considering he's funded some of the most vile, homophobic wings of the Republican Party, I doubt it.

Second, while there are undoubtedly some homosexuals that are nasty towards women, there are probably a lot more heterosexual men who behave the same way. By and large, homosexual men tend to get along with women famously, often making the straights jealous.

So your assertion is patently ludicrous. And this still doesn't explain your statement about hating the Republicans because they are run by "pimps and homosexuals." Care to elaborate, or just back pedal some more?

	20-12-2003 10:40									#36
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quote: Bayer is a German company. Being European, I thought you would know that. If you don't like how they conduct business, go and whine at the Germans.

Bayer as a symbol of pharmaceutical holdings is WESTERN. Pfizer or any other corps are no different.

And now to make sure I am heard once and for all:

US FOREIGN POLICY=GERMANY FOREIGN POLICY=FRANCE=RUSSIA=CHINA=ANY FVCKING COUNTRY

No morale whatsoever, no regards towards human rights. Complaining against the US is complaining against their allies, and also against their enemies who are using similar tactics.

On a sidenote, I find it strange that you feel any kind of "connection" towards businesses. They don't care about you, that's for sure. If you were denouncing a company of my own country, I would certainly agree with you if you had some facts. I'm not patriotically idiot to the point of defending damn businesses.

	20-12-2003 10:40									#37
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Oncle Boris, you probably should open a new thread where your points could be discussed. This one is doomed because homosexual nazi republican media tycoons will not allow the truth to come out

	20-12-2003 10:42									#38
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Then again, Sava has never (to my recollection) expressed such pathetic remarks towards homosexuals. Perhaps I was wrong...

So Social Science is pathetic?

There are many forms of homosexuals.
Republican Party is very 'butch'.

Why would Ashcroft be so worried about homosexulity?

	20-12-2003 10:42									#39
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quote: Is too much to ask them, say, every time they sell a pill in the US, they have to send one in humanitarian help?

Yes. The expense would be ridiculous. Would the government pay for it, or would we just require them to do so out of pocket? And it is all well and good to take away profits, but then who will invest in the company? And if people don't invest, then what will the company make.

If you want to destroy the drug industry go right ahead, just don't complain when another plague hits.

quote: Free market can only stay "FREE" as long as someone who is not interested in profit is making sure it does.

Free market can only remain free as long as it is not free

	20-12-2003 10:49									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Care to elaborate, or just back pedal some more?

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft are all socalled 'butch' homosexual.

Bush very much worry about his physical appearance.

Cheney is married to an ugly woman.

Rumsfeld is married to whom?

Ashcroft is very shy, and treats women badly, by not allowing them to have abortion.

	20-12-2003 10:50									#41
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Ok, so you're against the entire thread of Western Civilization as it has developed over the past 2,000 years. So why single out Americans?

	20-12-2003 10:54									#42
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quote: On a sidenote, I find it strange that you feel any kind of "connection" towards businesses. They don't care about you, that's for sure. If you were denouncing a company of my own country, I would certainly agree with you if you had some facts. I'm not patriotically idiot to the point of defending damn businesses.

To each his own, child. I find it strange that you look at government policy and blame it on businesses. And we all know how threatening those businesses are, what with their standing armies, their judges and jails, and their nuclear capabilities.

	20-12-2003 10:55									#43
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quote: Again: Bayer is a German company. You don't like the way they do business, go whine at the Germans.

actually Bayer, the one that produces Bayer drugs sold in the US, is not German though there is a German drug company also named Bayer with the same logo, etc. After the First World War, American entrepreneurs stole a whole lot of German products and made no attempt to cover it up as they kept the names of the German products. Hence, Bayer in America is essentially a copy-cat of Bayer in Germany and the two companies have no relation though they are, on the surface, identical. It's just like Budweiser as we know it (Anheuser-Busch) having no relation to the original German/Czech Budweiser Co

	20-12-2003 10:56									#44
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"American protectionism is the problem!
A December report by the U.S. Agriculture Department estimated that agricultural support in the United States is worth about 21 percent of the country's production value, while it reaches 35 percent in Europe and almost 60 percent in Japan. U.S. tariffs average 12 percent, EU tariffs 30 percent and Japan's almost 50 percent, the report said. The Washington Times January 24, 2003 "

	20-12-2003 10:57									#45
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Speer, you don't know what the hell you're talking about :

http://www.bayer.com/en/bayer/nordamerika.php

	20-12-2003 10:57									#46
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Ok, so you're against the entire thread of Western Civilization as it has developed over the past 2,000 years. So why single out Americans?

The original civilization was a matriachy. Then the horseriders of the east took over and established fiefdoms. Now feminization is winning back. We see that in our leaders.

	20-12-2003 10:57									#47
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I also love the drugs one. Those people think that by raping little children they can be cured of aids. No amount of free anything is going to fix that.

	20-12-2003 11:01									#48
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Where is my gun?

	20-12-2003 11:02									#49
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quote: Yes. The expense would be ridiculous. Would the government pay for it, or would we just require them to do so out of pocket? And it is all well and good to take away profits, but then who will invest in the company? And if people don't invest, then what will the company make.

Not at all. If you don't want the corporation to pay, then make the consumer do it. A pill costs a few cents to manufacture. A tax of 5% to 10% on drug sales would be sufficient to solve a LOT of problems.
Pfizer's janitors are more expensive than drug manufacturing costs (ok, not quite so but almost ).

quote: Free market can only remain free as long as it is not free

I see your proudness in discovering a "flaw". You should be ashamed yourself.
Basically, freedom is about having the right to do what you want without being impeded, within limits defined by society. There is no freedom when violence is allowed. As such, the STATE has a "violence monopoly" to make sure everyone stays free.
Without society, man is not free or slave; he is just "nothing". Freedom is only a kind of relationship between individuals.

Now to "free market": Without any regulation, the natural tendency of companies is towards oligopolies and monopolies (which is the absence of competition). There needs to be someone who says: Intel, don't do that; Enron, NO; Microsoft, go fvck your dad.
If you want to say: "Pfizer, cure that subsaharian nig***", you have the right to. Taxation is not illegal, isn't it?

City-states became empires. Barbaric tribes became nations with common religions and languages. National identity was formed.
Unification is a natural human tendency that is no stranger to the "free market".

	20-12-2003 11:09									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc I never said that homosexuals can't treat woman correctly. Homosexual can treat woman very good. However many socalled 'butch' homosexuals have very bad experience with woman. They stay in trenches too long. Or they are in strange schools. Or they are too long with stockbrokers.

Why do you bother spewing out such degrading stereotypes that fails to accurately portray the inredibly diverse group of homosexuals??

	20-12-2003 11:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Speer, you don't know what the hell you're talking about : http://www.bayer.com/en/bayer/nordamerika.php

Saved me the trouble. Bayer Corporation in the U.S. is owned by and operated under the aegis of the German-headquartered company. I know this well, as Bayer is on of our clients, and we're constantly dealing with Germany.

So Speer, did you just make this up to test your lying skills, or did you get it from some crank web site?

And Tripledoc: You're a loon. Sorry, but the notion that right-wingers are just angry homosexuals isn't just passe, it's plain bigoted. This same rationale has been used to try and accuse the Nazi leadership of all being a cabal of homosexuals out to destroy the world. Very nice...

	20-12-2003 11:13									#52
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http://www.bayer.com/en/bayer/history/ug_1914.php

quote: The company's U.S. assets, including its patents and trademarks, were confiscated in 1917 and auctioned off to its competitors.

the bayer website does not say when the non-German Bayer US, carrying Bayer's trademarks, re-joined with the German Bayer company, however.

	20-12-2003 11:13									#53
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Ok.

More on the scumbag fvcking liars of the Repuking Right.

How come they made a special push poll, were they asked helpless people whether they would support Senator John McCain if they knew that he had a black child?

McCain did in fact have an adopted child from Bangladesh.

This might be 'old news', however I consider this to be a scandal.

	20-12-2003 11:14									#54
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quote: To each his own, child. I find it strange that you look at government policy and blame it on businesses. And we all know how threatening those businesses are, what with their standing armies, their judges and jails, and their nuclear capabilities.

They don't need armies. It's easier to bribe those who are running them. They are dangerous, because they can hijack funds amassed by millions of taxpayers more efficiently than any working-class citizen can.

Please, who's paying for the Republican campaign? Who's benefitting from military contracts? Looks like we've got a circular-linked kind of fact here.

Again, I fear Microsoft and the "trusted computing initiative" (which basically plans to introduce chips in every computer that could monitor and censor your Internet access) much more than China's ICBMs.

	20-12-2003 11:15									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Ok. More on the scumbag fvcking liars of the Repuking Right. How come they made a special push poll, were they asked helpless people whether they would support Senator John McCain if they knew that he had a black child? McCain did in fact have an adopted child from Bangladesh. This might be 'old news', however I consider this to be a scandal.

I really don't care anymore what your thoughts are in this thread since you have no qualms about using stereotypes when talking about homosexuals.

	20-12-2003 11:16									#56
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oh and boris, my professor of Modern European History talked about Bayer being a different company on three seperate occassions so I did not mis-hear. He was positive they were seperate companies and told us that even today, they are seperate companies. i guess he, a professor of history, must be lying or getting information off crank websites.

	20-12-2003 11:19									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer oh and boris, my professor of Modern European History talked about Bayer being a different company on three seperate occassions so I did not mis-hear. He was positive they were seperate companies and told us that even today, they are seperate companies. i guess he, a professor of history, must be lying or getting information off crank websites.

He's flat out wrong about them being separate companies, as Bayer's own website testifies. You can educate him about it.

	20-12-2003 11:23									#58
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Again, after the First World War, Bayer US had no ties with the original German company. Apparently, between 1917 and today, the two companies re-united. I guess my professor was not aware they were the same company again.

	20-12-2003 11:24									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Again, after the First World War, Bayer US had no ties with the original German company. Apparently, between 1917 and today, the two companies re-united. I guess my professor was not aware they were the same company again.

Which means your first assertion was... come on, say it!

	20-12-2003 11:28									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer oh and boris, my professor of Modern European History talked about Bayer being a different company on three seperate occassions so I did not mis-hear. He was positive they were seperate companies and told us that even today, they are seperate companies. i guess he, a professor of history, must be lying or getting information off crank websites.

He is. While the Bayer confiscation was real (and lets not forget, an action of the government), their rights and patents were restored to them after the wars end. Or did you not equate 1917 with WW1?