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Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:10
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quote:
Well, Az, you could see it as the massive quantity of Tripledoc's stupidity is about equal to the combined intelligence of the rational posters here. Or at least, equal to our combined bemusement at his hysteria!

Not the battle of good and evil, but the battle of good and stupid... hmmm, I think this makes sense.

That's some good ol' fashioned conservative reason there, Boris.


Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Remeber folks. The evil of stupidity starts out seemly small. It tests the limits and resolve of resonable men. Then when it has determined the boundries, it springs forth and attacks with all its forces together. What we could be seeing is the initial probing. The evil is seeing who its allies will be in the upcomming war.



ok, as long as there are no conservatives on board. oh, wait you've said "reasonable".

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:36
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Ok I admit that i went over the top. Interesting topic nonetheless.
Here is some more hatespeech.



"The Looming Specter of Homo-Fascism,"

Message Given by Pastor Ralph Ovadal at Wisconsin Christians United's International Conference on Homo-Fascism, October 10, 2003.
quote:

Fascism is a political system whereby all opposition to and dissent from the government is disallowed and crushed. Fascism is a philosophy which tolerates no deviation from an established norm, that being the dictates of a powerful elite. Fascism is opposed to the eternal, unchanging, objective law of God and is based on the subjective desires and goals of those who have the power to crush their opposition. In many Western nations, a form of fascism has taken root and presents a clear, present, and growing danger to Christian liberty and the Church of Jesus Christ. This force for evil may justly be referred to as "homo-fascism" due to the fact that those espousing and driving it have as their goal to demonize, marginalize, and silence any criticism of or opposition to homosexual acts and the sodomite agenda. Already Christians in many countries are being arrested for preaching what the Bible teaches concerning homosexual acts. In some cases, special tribunals have been set up to punish such individuals. In America, the machinery of tyranny is likewise being put into place.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:39
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quote:
Ok I admit that i went over the top. Interesting topic nonetheless.
Here is some more hatespeech.


You see, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:46
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Well maybe the people who called me a DL will apologize too?

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
You are quoting me out of context. A typical ploy by Republicans.




Welcome to the crowd, Boris!

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
"The Looming Specter of Homo-Fascism,"

Message Given by Pastor Ralph Ovadal at Wisconsin Christians United's International Conference on Homo-Fascism, October 10, 2003.




So, to "prove" that the right wing is made up of closeted homosexuals, you cite an opinion given by a right wing pastor which is accusing leftist, open homosexuals of using fascistic tactics to silence their opposition.

Have you no self-respect? You'd fall into bed with a homophobic religious right pastor who refers to homosexuals as "sodomites"? Really, this is just too shameless for words.

I'd love to see what evidence this pastor has, and what your source for this is. Which countries now have such tribunals? And are these countries generally considered leftist or rightist?

The mess gets stickier...

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:52
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Well I am not agreeing with this Pastor.

I specifically call it hatespeech.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 01:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
Oh please Tolkien was a reactionary racist.

I AM STILL WAITING FOR A REPUBLICAN APOLOGIZING FOR THIER RACIST PUSH POLLS!!!


I really don't know what you are talking about. However, if this is any representation of what Franken's book is about, he is going to offend not the Republicans he is attacking but the Liberals, whom he claims to be one of, who tend to think of themselves as thoughtful and reasonable and who do not like being associated with this kind of idiocy.

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 02:07
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An example of a push poll.

quote:

Caller: Hi. I'm calling from an independent polling company and i was wondering if i could have a minute of your time to conduct this survey.

Unsuspecting voter: Uh... sure.

Caller: Great! If you knew that Senator John McCain was a cheat and a liar and a fraud, and that he has fathered an illigitimate black child, would you be more likely to vote for him or less likely to vote for him?

Unsuspecting voter: Hmm. Probably less.


Al Franken, page 143

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
An example of a push poll.



Al Franken, page 143


Tripledoc, I have never received one of such polls. However, I would be greatly offended if I did and would have the head of any party functionary or other apparatnick that was responsible. I am sure that if such a poll were made and associated with a campaign, that campaign would be in a major world of hurt. The American people do not accept such bigotry.

If Franken's point is that racist bigots oppose McCain and therefor the Republican Party is bigoted, I think he is being much too "liberal" with his guilt by association conspriracy thinking. Most, if not all, Republicans would utterly and loudly condemn this kind of bigoted hate-mongering.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 02:31
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Newsflash:

Franken is a humorist first. He is exaggerating to make a point. The "push polls" in 2000 weren't worded quite so obviously offensive. But they did happen, which shows the deviousness of the Bush campaign.

However, guess what? Liberal candidates do the exact same thing to their opponents. It's part of the ugliness that is modern American politics, and it's infected both sides.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 02:32
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quote:
Naw, you're not Sava's DL. Sava has more sense than to say that he didn't say something just 3 posts after he said it.




plus I don't make DL's

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 02:35
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Well...

quote:


Senator Fair: You haven't hit [McCain's] soft spots.

Bush: I know. I'm going to.

Senator Fair: Well they need to. Somebody does, anyway.

Bush: I agree. I'm not going to do it on TV.


Al Franken, page 145.

So the push polls was the means chosen, apparently.

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:03
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More lies.


DECEMBER 19, 2003
When Will Press Stop Circulating Dubious Iraq Claims?
Atta-Hussein Document Probably Bogus

By Greg Mitchell


quote:

When will the press stop circulating dubious or fabricated claims -- whether from Bush administration officials or intelligence abroad? The latest chapter unfolded this week with wide publicity -- capped by a favorable mention in a William Safire column in The New York Times on Monday and the usual hosannas on Fox News -- concerning a supposed document that linked 9/11 hijacker Mohammad Atta to Saddam Hussein.

This sort of "evidence," which surfaces periodically, is significant, as polls have always shown that one of the major reasons the public supported the invasion of Iraq was belief that Saddam helped plan the 9/11 attacks. Even after more than two years have passed -- and no hard evidence of that uncovered -- a poll earlier this week showed that slightly more than half of all Americans still believe that to be true, suggesting that perhaps the press has not really done its job in debunking this belief.

Now appears a document linking Atta to Hussein, which comes amid reports that the U.S. chief weapons inspector is about to call it quits, having failed to uncover any weapons of mass destruction.

There's only one problem: Just like every other bit of paper linking Saddam to 9/11 (some of them also touted by Safire), the latest document appears to be bogus. Yet many in the press keep taking them seriously.

According to U.S. law enforcement officials and FBI documents, the latest "smoking gun" linking Saddam to 9/11-- purporting to show that Atta visited Baghdad in the summer of 2001-- is probably a fabrication, Newsweek reported this week. In fact, the new document, supposedly written by the chief of the Iraqi intelligence service, is contradicted by U.S. law-enforcement records showing that Atta was staying at cheap motels and apartments in the United States when the trip would have taken place.

The document was hailed by the Sunday Telegraph of London earlier this week in a front-page story written by Con Coughlin, a Telegraph correspondent and the author of the book Saddam: The Secret Life.

But U.S. officials and a leading Iraqi document expert told Newsweek that the document is most likely a forgery -- "part of a thriving new trade in dubious Iraqi documents that has cropped up in the wake of the collapse of Saddam's regime."

Senior U.S. law-enforcement and intelligence officials said "the claims of an Atta trip to Iraq in the months before the Sept. 11 attacks were highly implausible -- and contradicted by a wealth of information that has been collected about Atta's movements during the period he was plotting the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon."

Contacted by Newsweek, the Sunday Telegraph's Coughlin acknowledged that "he could not prove the authenticity of the document. He said that while he got the memo about Mohammed Atta and Baghdad from a 'senior' member of the Iraqi Governing Council who insisted it was 'genuine,' he and his newspaper had 'no way of verifying it. It's our job as journalists to air these things and see what happens,' he said."


Source: Editor & Publisher Online

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:09
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Come on, this has been an educational thread. I didn't know that homo-fascism existed.

But given my egalitarian principles I'm committed to giving it equal status with plain old hetero-fascism.

And what's wrong with calling people "sodomites"? I mean according to the figures there is a lot more hetero-sodomy that goes on. And taking the broadest definition of sodomy, I Agathon, have been the grateful recipient of it from several women. If all I have to do is stand being called a sodomite to get a bit of oral action, I think that's the best deal anyone could ever get.

Shouldn't we be saying, "You're a sodomite. Not that there's anything wrong with that..."

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:18
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The tone gets nasty.

Bob Novak accused of being a traitor

http://www.bustbob.com/petition/

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:21
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That's disgraceful. I don't agree with Bob Novak's politics, but he is a good journalist and honest enough to admit when he doesn't agree with other conservatives.

In short, he's one of the finest conservative reporters there is. And in this case he was doing his job.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
Well maybe the people who called me a DL will apologize too?




You haven't convinced anyone one jot of your non-DLness.

quote:
And please stop laughing. Excessive laughing is a sign of lowered intelligence.


Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:23
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quote:
And please stop laughing. Excessive laughing is a sign of lowered intelligence.




Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Come on, this has been an educational thread.


If you mean as in "what NOT to do when debating", then yes

quote:
I didn't know that homo-fascism existed.


I think it is something like anarcho-fascism

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:26
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quote:
I never said that homosexuals can't treat woman correctly. Homosexual can treat woman very good.


quote:
Republican supporters are homosexual.

Thesis rest on. They don't know how to treat women correctly. Not even when it is startegic.


Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:37
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About Novak. What has he exactly done besides reporting what a Washington insider has already told him. It is the preorgative of any journalist to protect his sources. I think that this socalled Progressive Majority behind the website is misguided in making Novak the fall guy for the exposure of a CIA agent.

It is important not to whitchhunt journalists. The politicians must take responsibility. This is comparebale to how the Bush team made the Iraq WMD debacle stick on CIA director George Tenet (appointed by Clinton.)

I am simply amazed how the Bush administration is able to wring themselves out of every single scandal. If this had been Germany, the Bush administration would have fallen a thousand times already.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 03:58
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Got spare money?

That's a novel approach. Make yourself out to be a raving lunatic beyond hope of redemption as a way to stimuate debate.

Pretty funny for a while though.

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 04:13
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The biggest lie of them all.


The Year Democracy Ended
By Bob Fitrakis
The Columbus Free Press
12-4-3
quote:

"Future historians will record that while the facts and documentation of the end of American republic mounted, many believed the babbling of a low-IQ'ed well-scripted son of the new aristocracy."

As the year ends, 2003 will be remembered by future historians as the year the pretense of democracy in the United States ended.

Since the 1940s, conservatives have accepted the assumption of economist Joseph Schumpeter that democracy in a mass society existed of little more than the following: the adult population could vote; the votes were fairly counted; and the masses could choose between elites from one of two parties.

With the most recent revelations about the 2000 Bush coup in Florida disclosed in the shocking stolen Diebold memos, the Bush family has signaled that an authoritarian right-wing dynasty is the future course for American politics.

The Sunday, November 12, 2000 Washington Post, buried on page A22, the smoking gun of the Bush family's CIA-style rigged "demonstration" election in Florida: "Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official of Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and found that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000 votes. But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000 ... all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters."

So it should come as no surprise when the New York Times headline on July 24 of this year read "Computer voting is open to easy fraud." The work by Alastair Thompson at scoop.co.nz and Bev Harris in her essential new book Black Box Voting reveal not only that computer voting is open to fraud but that massive and widespread fraud occurred in the 2000 election.

Moreover, the emboldened Bush administration appears to have continued its fraud in the 2002 and subsequent elections. Why not? The investigation by Senator Frank Church in the 1970s revealed that the U.S. CIA routinely rigged elections throughout the world and was involved in overthrowing democracies and installing dictatorships as needed during the Cold War. The list is familiar to human rights advocates: Iran and Guatemala in the 50s; Chile and Greece in the 70s.

Four computer scientists at Rice University and a separate study by the Security Institute at Johns Hopkins University document how easy it is to hack into the Diebold voting machines. Diebold's CEO Wally O'Dell is an ardent Bush supporter who recently hosted a $10,000-a-plate fundraiser for the President in his manor in the affluent Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington. He is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President next year" while, at the same time, attempting to contract with the state of Ohio for his fabulously flawed voting machines.

And it's not just Diebold. The largest seller of computerized voting systems in the U.S. is ES&S, whose former top exec is now Nebraska's Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, who won after ES&S machines reported an unusual and stunning black vote for him.

The Dallas News reported that early voting in the 2002 election created "... several dozen complaints ... from people who said that they selected a Democratic candidate but that their vote appeared beside the name of a Republican on the screen."

Recall the six major upsets of Democrats by Republicans in Georgia in the 2002 election. The state's votes were counted on the unreliable and easily hackable 22,000 Diebold machines. Also during the 2002 election, where over 1000 votes were cast in other races, no votes were registered for governor as Clinton administration Attorney General went down to a surprisingly 5000 vote loss.

As a result of these obvious voting irregularities, hackers went into the Diebold system and stole thousands of documents and internal memos which expose the 2000 Florida coup. In Harris' book based on these documents and interviews with Diebold officials, she outlines how Gore originally conceded the election after somebody used a "second [computer] card (card #3) that mysteriously appeared, subtracted 16,022 from Al Gore and still in some undefined way, added 4000 erroneous votes to George W. Bush ..."

A summary of the 2002 election by scoop.co.nz found that in 14 races, there was a 3-16 point swing to the Republican Party after the final poll was taken providing several stunning upsets. By contrast, in only two races was there a swing toward the Democratic Party, between 2-4 points. In three other races, the pollsters were within the margin of error.

The American people have been socialized into denial. First about the ruthless and imperialist nature of their 26 intelligence-gathering agencies including the CIA and NSA that have been involved in rigging elections worldwide and the ongoing involvement by these agencies in American politics. What is obviously evolved is a praetorian guard, loyal only to the Bush family, that some call the "shadow government."

Most Americans are intent to stick their heads in the sand on Bush's vote-rigging and our troops in the sands of Iraq. Future historians will record that while the facts and documentation of the end of American republic mounted, many believed the babbling of a low-IQ'ed well-scripted son of the new aristocracy.


- Dr. Bob Fitrakis is Senior Editor of The Free Press (http://freepress.org), a political science professor, and author of numerous articles and books.

All content © 1970-2003 The Columbus Free Press

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 05:14
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quote:
Recall the six major upsets of Democrats by Republicans in Georgia in the 2002 election.


Anybody who actually knows Georgia and Georgians (I lived there for 30 years) would be hard-pressed to call the swing an "upset" and really, really reaching to append the word "major" to them. The only real surprise (and it wasn't, really) was Tom Murphy getting defeated - but since he was barely re-elected for the previous term it is obvious that the trend lines got him.

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
Chieftain

Jan 2003
time: 05:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 05:22
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So were you comfortable using a Diebold Machine?

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 05:25
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I currently live in Tennessee, so I don't know what they're about.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:32
  Old Post 21-12-2003 05:27
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However, I would be very wary about believing "stolen" documents from people with an agenda. Somebody capable of hacking into a machine is just as capable as forging supposed incriminating evidence.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:32
  Old Post 22-12-2003 20:51 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
And please stop laughing. Excessive laughing is a sign of lowered intelligence.

funny, i thought laughing was good exercise. oh, shiznit, that makes me gay, doesn't it.

quote:
Oh please Tolkien was a reactionary racist.

i'll say. all the men of westernesse were white! not a single asian man ever! and the dragons are always evil! like totally 3v1l!!!!!!!!11111 tolkein obviously thinks all asians, represented by deragons, are teh 3v1l. and then the men of the south! obviously black! and fighting for the evil in mordor! that racist pig! and the elves! being white, tall, blond! they're aryans! my god! he's hitlerian! omg omg omg omg!

quote:
I didn't know that homo-fascism existed.

i demand fair play for bi-fascism! and trans-fascism! and cross-fascism! and hermaphracism!

 
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