26-12-2003 09:12									#1
	Ozzy's Classical Eurodip! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Merry Christmas, all - and I hope you're ready for a boxing day inside the world ring with your favorite diplo players. Things are near complete and ready for our 9pm EST start tommorrow. The graphics and final scenario pack will be available in a few short hours; but for now here's a last minute overview of the game parameters themselves before tommorrow's start. Our final revised roster for play on Friday, December the 26th is:

Romans - atawa
Babylonians - Dylan Baker
Gauls - Frank Johnson
Egyptians - Makeo
Spanish - Zylka
Greeks - Ljube (Ozzy regular)
Carthaginains - deity

In game rules and exceptions are as follows (any asterix denoting need of final consideration):

See below

I've played around with a lot of give & take combinations in the modern era and have come up with a delightful revised ratio of strengths according to slight imbalance the units introduced by the mod bring. This is definitely available for discussion LATER ON IN THE GAME but obviously not worth of distraction now. Modern changes to provide a more versatile, well rounded and multitasked modern combat system are as follows:

-Modern infantry to have attack lowered to 6
- Mech infantry to have attack & defense upped to 7, cost up to 60
-Helicopter to have Blackhawk or Apache graphic made up
* Cruise missile to be given lower success "industrial sabatoge" ability (if possible without the rest of the dip options) - and thereby have cost increased to 80 shields. This possible, Frank?

In any case, see you all tommorrow - 8:00pm EST. We will for sure be starting at 9:00pm EST, and playing for a good several hours. Eurodip Classical ends the year in style, and starts yet another new with civ2. See you then!

Last edited by Zylka on 27-12-2003 at 05:55

	26-12-2003 10:58									#2
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Oh.. Ming; if you could give us just another day with both threads open to finalise & transfer, we'll move everything in to here and let lock the other. Thanks

	26-12-2003 11:36									#3
	Not quite ready yet.... Got spare money?

I've got the new scn file and city.txt and rules.txt files.

I'm just posting for Zylka to check because I'll be asleep until just before game start. Hold off d/ling until he's finalised the full modpak.

Then, once we post the complete pak we should all d/l the full pak and set up the same scn folder with the following files in our Scenario folder; e.g.

C:\MPS\Civ2\Scenario\classic_eurodip

classic_eurodip_b4000.scn
RULES.TXT
UNITS.BMP
cities.gif or CITIES.BMP
CITY.TXT
+ SOUND (folder)

---

This attachment NOW has the Legion flag and 60 shield diplos.... updated at 7pm Eastern (I think) = ONE HOUR before game start. Cities.bmp NOT included yet...

---

Attachment: classic_eurodip.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

Last edited by deity on 27-12-2003 at 05:06

	26-12-2003 11:43									#4
	Remove this text

Zylka, I assume that Emperor level is still proposed?

	26-12-2003 13:10									#5
	Re: Ozzy's Classical Eurodip! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Zylka * No tech trading allowed

Tech trading is essential for diplo. I don't think you can have a true diplo game without tech trading - too many team strategies depend on that.

	26-12-2003 14:08									#6
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Yeah that was a little hasty and I agree we are going to need some degree of trading, better even full than none. Deity, I'll square things away tommorrow morning.. a lot of turkey and wine tonight, time for 8 hours

	26-12-2003 16:47									#7
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OK, I'll get online about 2 hours before game time if I can

I re-suggest my idea on tech trading:

Only allowed to trade techs with formally signed allies and no more than two formal allies at any given point in time. This allows each of the 7 civs to have at least one ally.

	26-12-2003 16:50									#8
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With trade routes it's too tricky to monitor 12 routes; 6 of your own and six from anyone else.

I suggest each civ can only create 6 external routes. If your civ attracts extras then that's just the roll of the dice.

	26-12-2003 17:03									#9
	Re: Ozzy's Classical Eurodip! Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Zylka -Modern infantry to have attack lowered to 6 - Mech infantry to have attack & defense upped to 7, cost up to 60 -Helicopter to have Blackhawk or Apache graphic made up * Cruise missile to be given lower success "industrial sabatoge" ability (if possible without the rest of the dip options) - and thereby have cost increased to 80 shields. This possible, Frank?

Not made these changes yet. Don't understand the Cruise thing?

	26-12-2003 17:17									#10
	Got spare money?

Don't worry for the modern units thing yet. For now, I give you all the Classical Eurodip exclusive city graphics!

Top panel is for Egyptians and Babs
Next panel is for Greeks and Romans
Following is for Carts and Spanish
..and the last is for the Gauls. Hope y'all enjoy

Attachment: cities.gif
This has been downloaded 78 time(s).

	26-12-2003 17:20									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by deity OK, I'll get online about 2 hours before game time if I can I re-suggest my idea on tech trading: Only allowed to trade techs with formally signed allies and no more than two formal allies at any given point in time. This allows each of the 7 civs to have at least one ally.

Helpful ideas, especially with the allies thing. Tommorrow in the early afternoon it'll be settled and posted.

	26-12-2003 18:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by deity Zylka, I assume that Emperor level is still proposed?

Emperor level is a must lest happy wonders become too powerful.

	26-12-2003 19:02									#13
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quote: Originally posted by deity With trade routes it's too tricky to monitor 12 routes; 6 of your own and six from anyone else. I suggest each civ can only create 6 external routes. If your civ attracts extras then that's just the roll of the dice.

I support this fully!!!!!

However this may increase the significance of colossus dramatically.

I invite you all to comment on this. It may be an unfair advantage of the one who built the colossus. This single wonder may decide the game.

Maybe we should ban colossus in these circumstances. What about other wonders? GW expiring with gunpowder and GL expiring with university or theory of gravity? All other wonders expiring and Leo and Magellan not allowed, or Magellan expiring with combustion?

	26-12-2003 19:26									#14
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I agree with deity's idea for extewrnal traderoutes.

Col gets more powerfull I agree but I dont know about banning it. Would like to ban GL though.

	26-12-2003 19:45									#15
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How about making col expire earlier. That should do the trick. Let's say expiring with invention or democracy.

	26-12-2003 22:09									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The cruise missile diplomat thing won't work. It would have to be a separet unit of the attack version. You could in theory have a tactical missile and a stractic missile, but this really isn't the time to tinker with the units. We're having a hard time getting any concenssus, and its too close to game start.

What you do with modern infantry's attack really isn't important. I thought it should be higher than marines, but that's just me.

External routes can be monitored. If you guys want to suggest a limit on that, go ahead. I don't think any more drastic unit / tech changes are neccessary. We haven't seen alot of my mods late game changes yet, including mod infantry, jet fighters and bombers, buffed stealth fighters and bombers, and how that will affect the end game scenarios.

I think we should think of a creative solution to the end game situation. ^_^

I think the first player to get eleminated gets "support from the Americans" and comes back with transports full of the current units. ^_^

	26-12-2003 22:31									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson I think the first player to get eleminated gets "support from the Americans" and comes back with transports full of the current units. ^_^

I like this idea

	26-12-2003 22:34									#18
	Last minute very important thoughts Full PM-box? Change here!

Nobody is checking the other thread, so I am going to repeat my suggestions here.

quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko No non-combat unit guiding!!!!! But combat unit guiding is OK (including paradrops). Science paradigm set at 20/10. This should insure the diversity of opening strategies unlike monotonous straight line to monarchy we all are pursuing. No tech stealing with diplomats or increase the cost of diplomats to 80. This is to prevent easy way of getting techs without investing in costly research. Tech stealing allowed with spies and spy cost increased to 120. All exploits listed in Rah rules prohibited. The speed of all naval vessels increased by 2. Trireme unaffected. This is to reduce the significance of Magellan and Lighthouse. SDI available with custom technology Anti Ballistic Missiles. Prerequisites the Laser and Fusion Power.

	27-12-2003 01:40									#19
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quote: SDI available with custom technology Anti Ballistic Missiles. Prerequisites the Laser and Fusion Power

I like this idea, wait until later though. A 2/1 tech paradigm is way too high, we're already changing regular pace by 50% and double that is too risky a venture for now. Colossus will remain unchanged; we're still only looking at a real trade increase of 25~55% for one city (lesser of which in the later stages). It becomes a little more powerful, but still not as breaking as Mikes or HG (even on emp)

Anyway - The rules:

See below

Let's get our last minute adjustments in now, folks. Only 6ish hours left till play

	27-12-2003 01:50									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

* Pike flag to be added to Legions

Let's finally get these things active in a game; with the smallest tweak possible.

	27-12-2003 03:41									#21
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Also, we should, for the purposes of reparations or something similar should do any cash related trades via the cheat menu between sessions. This is the only way I know to get around the bug.

	27-12-2003 04:21									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It is a problem I agree, but how about settling port taxes in case of caravan delivery?

	27-12-2003 04:23									#23
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Oh, in how may hours are we starting?

I PM'd deity my celphone#, please give me a wakeup call if needed

	27-12-2003 04:43									#24
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OK, so I fix the Legion flag; and make diplos cost 60...

It's too late to tinker with anything else, including Wonders. All Wonders should be in, Oracle expires with Ind.

	27-12-2003 04:44									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by atawa It is a problem I agree, but how about settling port taxes in case of caravan delivery?

I think it's safer to just completely ban gifting gold.

Besides, with 8 caras each no biggie.

	27-12-2003 04:53									#26
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Who is hosting?

And does that latest graphic crash te game?? I'm not trying it out until I'm told it's OK!

	27-12-2003 04:58									#27
	Re: Last minute very important thoughts Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko No non-combat unit guiding!!!!! But combat unit guiding is OK (including paradrops). Science paradigm set at 20/10. This should insure the diversity of opening strategies unlike monotonous straight line to monarchy we all are pursuing. No tech stealing with diplomats or increase the cost of diplomats to 80. This is to prevent easy way of getting techs without investing in costly research. Tech stealing allowed with spies and spy cost increased to 120. All exploits listed in Rah rules prohibited. The speed of all naval vessels increased by 2. Trireme unaffected. This is to reduce the significance of Magellan and Lighthouse. SDI available with custom technology Anti Ballistic Missiles. Prerequisites the Laser and Fusion Power.

I prefer diplo guiding but that's just my opinion.

Tech paradigm set at 15. I'm happy for 20 but will not get agrement on that.

Diplos now set at 60 shields to build as per Zylka decision.

Agree on Rah Rules

The current modpak is basically Frank's from previous diplo games which includes the incr sea movements.

I don't agree with delayed SDI. No one build a SS.

	27-12-2003 05:08									#28
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Latest pak updated in third post of this thread...

	27-12-2003 05:30									#29
	re-posting the lates pak... Remove this text

atawa said the third post in the threrad was still d/ling the old pak... here's my latest; and I'll keep updating at the end of the thread with latest as Zylka OK's it.

Attachment: classic_eurodip.zip
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	27-12-2003 05:52									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

editing attachments is weird like that - just delete the old ones as you go along and post the newest. It looks good, add the cities and we're near done. Everyone, be sure to have the old classical_eurodip folder deleted before installing the latest one D posts.

Rule review:

- Emperor level, 1x1x
- Tech paradigm set at 15/10
- No huts
- Civ specific unit cost advantages and start techs not to be included
- Unit bribery allowed, city bribery not
- All exploits listed in Rah rules prohibited
- Tech trading & stealing allowed
- Diplomats to have cost increased to 60
- Pikeman flag added to Legions
- Maximum 8 total foreign trade routes allowed; divided in any decided ratio amongst recieving partners
- NO money trades allowed due to cash back bug
- Money trade available via cheat; used sparingly for reparations, large purchases etc.