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Capt Dizle
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The phrases "Peace in the middle east" and "hell freezing over" are and will continue to be pretty much interchangable. I think it will take an act of God, something on the scale of the return of Jesus, to change this status.
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CerberusIV
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If the Iranian government is so anti-Israeli why did they accept spare parts to keep their F-4 Phantoms flying during the 1980's through Israel?
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Zevico
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Melbourne
Apr 2002
time: 15:33
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quote:
Labeling a state as a 'Jewish state' and then saying it isn't racist is like labeling the state relgion in the US to be Anglicanism and then saying it conforms to free exercise. |
Inhales. Exhales. Inhales. Exhales.
Ireland is an Irish state. Poland is a Polish State. Israel is a Jewish State. If what you say is true than every country in the world is racist.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
ME peace is obviously impossible |
Well, obviously.
quote:
Does Ireland have a constitution that state that it is soley an Irish state? Or does Ireland's constitution grant all citizens equal rights in all aspects under the law? If the later is true, then it is "Irish" in name only, and not in how it treats its citizens. The basic question is: can a person not Irish in any way (lets say a Hindu) immigrate, become a citizen with all the same rights as any other Irishman, and within a few years have his sons be as Irish as some kid whose decendents go back 1000 years. |
I agree. And the fact that I could convert to Judaeism tonight and most likely (if the Rabbais/immigration officers agree) gain Israeli citizenship tomorrow says something.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
And furthermore, I'm not convinced that 'Jewish' is a race... any more than 'Islam' is a race. |
It isn't one, to be Jewish is to ascribe to the Jewish faith. You don't believe in Judaeism, you're not a Jew.
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Capt Dizle
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[And furthermore, I'm not convinced that 'Jewish' is a race... any more than 'Islam' is a race. |
That statement does not speak well of your education.
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Capt Dizle
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quote:
Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
It isn't one, to be Jewish is to ascribe to the Jewish faith. You don't believe in Judaeism, you're not a Jew. |
Uh, no. Not exactly.
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JimmyCracksCorn
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Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
wereupon no matter what religion you are, in most states the requirements for citizenship are the same.
That is the difference. |
Exactly.
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Come to NYC and test that notion out. |
I know, its the same as Boston. I understand that some non-religious people identify themselves as "culturally Jewish", just as I suppose I could consider myself "culturally catholic", even though I don't ascribe to catholocism. But I mean it in the religious sense. The problem is we don't have the words to describe people who are culturally relevant to a religious group but don't ascribe to their beliefs. For now we just inaccurately call them Jews.
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Yes, and its not good. Cause if you were to convert to Islam and try to get Israeli citizenship it would not be half as easy..
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Actually, it's not that simple. If someone with Jewish ethnicity were to convert to Islam, for example, it would be just as easy.
And Israel isn't the only country to have such a law. IIRC, both Russia and Germany have simmilar laws.
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Tripledoc
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Whether is in fact true that Israel has the most experienced rescue crews is difficult to say. However as experinced as the Israeli rescue teams are, similarly experienced are operators of Israeli army bulldozers in knocking down buildings burying civilians under the rubble, if not outright driving over civilians, amongst them the american peace activist Rachel Corey. Also Israeli sharpshooters have shown themselves very capable of assasinating foreign peace activists.
I am sure earlier attempts at acting in a humanitarian fashion, would have rewarded itself multifold. Instead the Israeli army has committed itself to a pattern of collective punishment and outright economically motivated dislocation of the civilian Palestinian population. Perhaps the Israeli offer of humanitarian assistance to Iran would not have the odious tinge of political opportunism to it, should there have been a track record of humane treatment of Muslims in the past.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Yes, and its not good. Cause if you were to convert to Islam and try to get Israeli citizenship it would not be half as easy..
wereupon no matter what religion you are, in most states the requirements for citizenship are the same.
That is the difference. |
The requirements for someone BORN in Israel are the same without regard to race or religion. The distinction is only with regard to immigration. The state allows privileges for Jews to immigrate based on its function as a haven and its claim as an ancient homeland. Note Germany and some other states have law of return privileges as well. Making the law of return based solely on descent rather than religion would lead to vast complications given how the Jewish people defined itself for hundreds of years - your pals who are jews by ethnicity only would hardly deny that converts to J are jews as well, would they? Many of them are probably in part descendants of converts too.
However there is ongoing ferment in Israel now, in response to 1. Problems with Soviet immigrants, some of whom are NOT jewish according to Jewish law, but are clearly assimilating into Jewish Israeli society 2. a sense that if and when peace occurs, there will be little need to attract large numbers "technical racial" jews to israel for security 3. a desire to conform to democratic norms
problem 1 leads to arguments for a form of secular conversion - why shouldnt someone who is Hebrew speaking, committed to historic Jewish culture and nationhood, and affiming their support for the Israeli state and its Hebrew, Jewish character, be accepted as a Jew for all State related purpose? This would solve a number of problems and YET would likely not involve the "judaization" of any more than a handfull of muslims. Problem 2 leads to a reexamination of the law of return - why should Jews who come from states where Jews are not suffering actual persecution, be granted citizenship without some demonstrated knowledge of Hebrew and Israeli and Jewish culture - again the latter would allow all relgious and most commited secular jews, but would tend to block migrants coming for pure economic opportunism.
In combination these two actions would go far to answering 3, and would probably do so with minimal actual demographic impact. They would not eliminate the technical non-compliance - A technical Jew would still recieve automatic asylum from any state where Jews are prosecuted, and such technical status would continue to includ converts to J, without respect to linguitstic or cultural criteria - but anyone calling Israel racist on these grounds would be revealed as someone of fundamental ill will.
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31-12-2003 23:56
. Labeling a state as a 'Jewish state' and then saying it isn't racist is like labeling the state relgion in the US to be Anglicanism and then saying it conforms to free exercise.
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