03-01-2004 23:48									#31
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Or maybe he just posted the thread before reading the morning newspaper, but no, what am I thinking trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt on this forum...

	03-01-2004 23:52									#32
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quote: You obviously have no idea what Islam is, DanS. And you along with many others seek to constantly employ a tactic of scaremongering and derision which is frankly reflecting badly upon the nation you so dearly think is so rightious.

	04-01-2004 00:03									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Iran needs our money as much as we need their oil. As long as the US won't normalize its relationship with Iran, the noise (from both sides) won't hinder TotalFinaElf in making profit.

US won't normalize?

	04-01-2004 00:07									#34
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Iran needs iron to build immortals. Just don't give them iron.

	04-01-2004 00:13									#35
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"Khatami said last week that the "hijab is a religious necessity and its restriction is a sign of a kind of extreme nationalistic tendency."

Why do French posters here deny that the head scarf is a religious necessity?

	04-01-2004 00:14									#36
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quote: US won't normalize?

Good point. There were at least three times that I can remember where the US sent out feelers over the last 10 years. All were rejected after internal power struggles in Iran. The real nvtfvcks are still in charge. They weigh human life very, very lightly.

	04-01-2004 00:15									#37
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it's prohibited in Germany, that is for certain occasions. teachers are not allowed to wear it.

	04-01-2004 01:21									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Heck, France probably sent a field hospital.

Yes. And even if the regime's goons literaly spat on our boys there, I'd still support the move. No way we let innocents die for the sake of petty politics.

	04-01-2004 01:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Why do French posters here deny that the head scarf is a religious necessity?

Because there is a strong disagreement about it among the Muslim intellectuals, and the pro-scarf people seem not to justify it by the Quran (the message of God spoken by Mohammed), but by the Haddiths (Muhammed's own quotes that haven't been inspired by God)

	04-01-2004 01:29									#40
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BTW, this story is not the first time the radical differences between France and Iran spice up the diplomatic game. I remember recently, when an Iranian leader (I guess it was Khatami) paid a visit to France, he was warmly welcome.
But the talks completely failed because the Iranian demanded that there was no wine on the table during the diplomatic dinners. Such a breach to French protocol could not be tolerated, and the trip ended up being much shorter than expected

	04-01-2004 01:40									#41
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I am suprised he didn't demand that he have no infidels at his table, or at least that he get a gilded elevated chair to show his status as one of gods people.

BTW, what is the rule on medical drugs that alter the mind like anestesia (SP) and the like? It is obviously a technical breach on Quran teachings, but do they recognize intent at all?

-Pat

	04-01-2004 01:41									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor BTW, this story is not the first time the radical differences between France and Iran spice up the diplomatic game. I remember recently, when an Iranian leader (I guess it was Khatami) paid a visit to France, he was warmly welcome. But the talks completely failed because the Iranian demanded that there was no wine on the table during the diplomatic dinners. Such a breach to French protocol could not be tolerated, and the trip ended up being much shorter than expected

	04-01-2004 01:45									#43
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quote: No way we let innocents die for the sake of petty politics.

Yes, that's how good governments act. Even most bad governments will set things aside temporarily.

	04-01-2004 01:48									#44
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Spiffor, but this issue of the head scarf appears to be a genuine issue among the people of Islamic faith. France has no authority to decide the issue one way or the other.

	04-01-2004 01:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Speaking of disasters, I'm asking myself why those in Iran are *****ing and moaning about headscarves when they have infinitely more important things to worry about right now, such as getting outside help after the total destruction of one of their cities. Heck, France probably sent a field hospital. That irony was where I hoped this thread would be when I woke up this morning.

An even grander irony they're joining Bush in moaning about the headscarves issue in France. (sorry that was a little troll of my own )

quote: No. What made you think that?

Well, you said:

quote: I especially like "Death to Chirac the Zionist." Where's the love, after he was kissing so much rear end in the run up to Iraq?

By "Where's the love" you're implying "where's the muslim love", right? By "after he was kissing so much rear end" you're implying "muslim rear end" right?

Or do you have any other reason to connect Chirac's opposition to the fundie Iranian outrage on this issue aside to the fact Iraq and Iran are muslim countries? At least I have never seen any Iranian praise to Chirac for it's Iraq stance.

	04-01-2004 01:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Spiffor, but this issue of the head scarf appears to be a genuine issue among the people of Islamic faith. France has no authority to decide the issue one way or the other.

France has every authority it wants to decide what happens in its public schools. If the French government imposed the Pink Unicorn Cult at school despite the hot theological debates on the issue, it would have all authority to do so. If the French government wanted to force pupils to wear "kick me" T-shirts, it would have the whole authority to do so.

No matter what you think of the issue, the authority on French public schools is in the hands of the French government, and not in the hands of religious wackos in Tehran.

	04-01-2004 02:14									#47
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France doesn't have every authorithy. If the Court of Justice finds France violates the European Convention on Human Rights, the French authorithies can go to hell with their opinions.

	04-01-2004 02:18									#48
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Spiffor, of course. And if France wanted to round up little Islamic girls wearing head scarves and sell them into slavery, it would have every right to do so because France is all powerful within its borders and no one, especially the stupid Iranians, have a right to complain about French actions within its own borders.

	04-01-2004 02:18									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor France has every authority it wants to decide what happens in its public schools. If the French government imposed the Pink Unicorn Cult at school despite the hot theological debates on the issue, it would have all authority to do so. If the French government wanted to force pupils to wear "kick me" T-shirts, it would have the whole authority to do so. No matter what you think of the issue, the authority on French public schools is in the hands of the French government, and not in the hands of religious wackos in Tehran.

So you're saying that under French law there is no such thing as individual rights?

	04-01-2004 02:20									#50
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BTW, I'm wondering if Iran allows students to wear crucifixes in its schools.

	04-01-2004 02:36									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove BTW, I'm wondering if Iran allows students to wear crucifixes in its schools.

Indeed.

	04-01-2004 02:45									#52
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(ignores rest of thread)
since when were Jaguars French???

	04-01-2004 02:46									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker (ignores rest of thread) since when were Jaguars French???

They're British, and Ford Motor Co. to boot!

	04-01-2004 03:13									#54
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[Answering-French-Bashing mode]

I wonder how the compulsory wearing of a headscarf by non-muslim women in Saudi Arabia can reconcile with a religious obligation.

[/Answering-French-Bashing mode]

	04-01-2004 03:29									#55
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This thread doesn't have much French bashing going on. I just made the Little Satan comment to show that no matter what France does to endear itself to the Arab/muslim governments, it is washed away in an instant by couterproductive rhetoric from some quarters. This will continue to be the case while many in the region systematically disregard their own people's interests--even vital interests--for a very tenuous benefit.

	04-01-2004 03:46									#56
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[Answering-French-Bashing mode]

Principles are not considered as counterproductive rhetoric, at least by those who does rank them far above immediat interests.

[/Answering-French-Bashing mode]

	04-01-2004 04:10									#57
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A principled person is not required to act stupidly. In the long run, his principles aren't served by this. The Malaysian government understands this. The Iranians are about as dumb as rocks when it comes to this. It's also why the US is correct in shunning contact with Iran, but Iran is rock stupid in shunning contact with the US.

	04-01-2004 04:21									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DanS A principled person is not required to act stupidly.

You can only express this judgement if you share the principle inspiring the action; if you dont, it is an opinion not convincingly supported.

	04-01-2004 04:26									#59
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I think it can be convincingly supported by objective criteria. If these people truly are wishing for the death of France, then they are actively working against this long-term goal by acting so stupidly. I can assure you that Iran is farther away from the death of the US through its 25 years of "Death to America" rhetoric.

	04-01-2004 04:30									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove So you're saying that under French law there is no such thing as individual rights?

There are individual rights, but I don't think they go against clothing codes at school.