08-01-2004 10:12									#1
	Naming Cities Increase the size of your Attachments

Alright, we have a lot of cities to name and we need a method that at least the bulk of the population here is reasonably happy with for doing so.

Among the methods that have either been used in the past or suggested are:

* Giving each executive and minister the ability to name one city (though the name itself could be subject to approval)

* Establishing a large list of city names and voting them down to those which are most popular to the population as a whole.

* Giving certain members of the team which have contributed a great deal to the game throughout our history the honor to name cities as they choose (could be up to approval by some body still, however). Such individuals would need to be chosen by some fair method.

* Giving either the leadership or the populace the responsibility to name cities in the honor of posters which have contributed greatly to our civilization.

* Voting on each individual city LOCATION for its intended city name.

* Giving the Consuls the power to name the cities as needed and as they please, with input from the populace in thread and chat.

* Anything else you want to suggest

------------------

We need input on a method or methods people would like to use and ultimately we need to vote between the various proposals (as ironed out by their supporters). Ultimately, we will name cities permanently upon that basis. In the meantime, the Consuls will need to assign placeholder names to new cities. It should be understood that all cities named from this point are given merely placeholder names until the process discussed in this and related threads is finalized and voted on.

	08-01-2004 10:21									#2
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Give the consuls the power.

Some cities are best named because of their location.
Some cities should be named after honoured members.
And some names are just really popular and should be used for no other reason that they sound great.

I trust the consuls to ask for suggestions...and allocate names that best fit the cities.



So long as a city is named "Down Under" I will be happy.

	08-01-2004 10:23									#3
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I feel we should have people put in a request to name a city (rather than a specific name... we've tried that in the past and nothing gets decided ). We can have a specific post or thread for those who wish to name a city, and they can be put on a list. When their turn comes up (in a way yet-to-be-determined) they can come up with a name for a new city. The name then has to get a 2/3 vote to be accepted (to avoid city names like Goats ).

	08-01-2004 10:32									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Let's just set up a thread, people can suggest names (and sometimes locations for that name), and the team can give feedback on the names that gain popularity.

Every so often we take all of the names that have been suggested, make a 3-day poll, everyone votes, top names are in. Then in a month or so we repeat with the old suggestions and new ones.

Consuls take the winning names and assign them to cities.

And, heck, if someone wants to start a campaign to rename a city, let them just create a poll to do it.

--Togas

	08-01-2004 11:12									#5
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Working off of Togas' idea, we can have a multiple choice poll for the set of cities. Each proposed city name with, say, at least 5 votes will be added to the "official list" which the consuls may pick from.

I believe that's a very good solution.

	09-01-2004 02:16									#6
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I do think we should name the current "X" city to Dominus.

It will neither be corrupt nor a poor city. It's right next to our FP. It has iron, gold, dyes and river tiles all around. A number of hills and what will one day be fields upon fields of grassland. It will be a magnificent city one day.

	09-01-2004 04:33									#7
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My proposal:

--Each minister and consul, past and present, can suggest two city names. (Trip, BFM, and vondrack can only suggest one, due to the cities "Tripoli", "Karina", "BigFurryCity".)
--Everyone else can suggest one city name.
--Once we get input from 20 or so members (or at least 30 names), we put all the city names into an Excel file in one column, and randomly generate numbers in the column to its right, then sort, smallest going first. (WARNING: doing this actually generates a new list of random numbers, so it won't match. )
--Work down the list for each new city, in order of founding.

Special cities (the new Palace city is the only one that comes to mind at the moment) would be voted on, official poll and everything; separate suggestions would be made for those.

	09-01-2004 11:30									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov My proposal: --Each minister and consul, past and present, can suggest two city names. (Trip, BFM, and vondrack can only suggest one, due to the cities "Tripoli", "Karina", "BigFurryCity".) --Everyone else can suggest one city name. --Once we get input from 20 or so members (or at least 30 names), we put all the city names into an Excel file in one column, and randomly generate numbers in the column to its right, then sort, smallest going first. (WARNING: doing this actually generates a new list of random numbers, so it won't match. ) --Work down the list for each new city, in order of founding. Special cities (the new Palace city is the only one that comes to mind at the moment) would be voted on, official poll and everything; separate suggestions would be made for those.

Hell yes! Great idea!

You ever thought of running for Consul?

	09-01-2004 12:04									#9
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Good plan

--Togas

	09-01-2004 12:19									#10
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I don't know about that.

Some names are more appropriate for some sites than others. For example, "Lakeview" wouldn't be an appropriate name for a city in the middle of the continent, no? By doing things completely randomly and straight down a list then we eliminate any signficance a city name might have to its location, time of being built or situation.

	09-01-2004 12:27									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Also, what if we don't get enough names the first time we determine the order? When do we add more names to the list? Would they be bumped to the end of the list? Would we do a complete re-ordering?

It seems too random and systematic for my liking.

	09-01-2004 12:55									#12
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Perhaps we might gather not only names, but something like "locations" from the members, too... as H_E correctly points out, some cities just prompt for a geography-based name (since you can easily remember where they are then), while others will be better off using a member-based name, as they have no suitable landmark nearby...

Thus, if I wanted (for some reason) a city on a lake shore, I would put:

Lakeview (on a lake shore only)

Then it gets processed according to Vlad's suggestion, ends up somewhere in the resulting list... and would be skipped for all non-lakeshore locations, while being the first one to come up for a lakeshore location (unless, of course, there was another request for a lakeshore location that would get a higher rank on the list).

This might hopefully generate a rather "reasonable" naming pattern. For cities named according to the list, no vote would be necessary, the consuls would just follow the simple rules. If an opportunity presents itself and someone gets a great idea about naming a new city some other way (not the way the citylist would be suggesting at the moment), like after a big battle or something, there would be a vote approving its "emergency" insertion.

New cityname requests (filed after the creation of the list) would be added at the bottom of the list.

	09-01-2004 13:15									#13
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[threadjack]
Dammit! I don't want a city! I just want a unit!

Donegeal dreams of the day he sees his 1st Knight of Apolyton

[/threadjack]

[Edit]Stupid ! in the smilely. [/Edit]

Last edited by Donegeal on 09-01-2004 at 18:50

	09-01-2004 15:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Donegeal dreams of the day he sees his 1st Knight of Apolyton

Don't worry, if we ever do build a Knight, you'll be the first one.

	09-01-2004 16:08									#15
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How about if E_T produces a new map of the settlement plan with each of the cities numbered in likely order of founding, I believe there is a map like this in the settlement plan thread but that it is now out of date.

People would then suggest names for the city numbers thus allowing people to tailor their suggested names to the cities geography and function.

Consuls and ministers (past and present) could be allowed to suggest 2 city names with normal citizens suggesting 1.

In the case of a naming conflict we could have a poll the turn before the city is founded.

	09-01-2004 17:51									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, you guys already used Grog, right (and got him killed, the sure secret for winning a war )? So I'm taken care of.

-Arrian

	09-01-2004 18:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Well, you guys already used Grog, right (and got him killed, the sure secret for winning a war )

Had to bring up bad memories, didn't you?

As to city names, yes, I think certain names should be site specific as Trip has pointed out. I'm not a fan of the random approach - it de-personalizes things too much.

Other than that, having a poll on a short-list of names, or having the consuls choose, I am easy either way.

(but, just a suggestion, no banana plantation type names, OK? )

	10-01-2004 00:47									#18
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Perhaps we might gather not only names, but something like "locations" from the members, too... as H_E correctly points out, some cities just prompt for a geography-based name (since you can easily remember where they are then), while others will be better off using a member-based name, as they have no suitable landmark nearby... Thus, if I wanted (for some reason) a city on a lake shore, I would put: Lakeview (on a lake shore only) Then it gets processed according to Vlad's suggestion, ends up somewhere in the resulting list... and would be skipped for all non-lakeshore locations, while being the first one to come up for a lakeshore location (unless, of course, there was another request for a lakeshore location that would get a higher rank on the list). This might hopefully generate a rather "reasonable" naming pattern. For cities named according to the list, no vote would be necessary, the consuls would just follow the simple rules. If an opportunity presents itself and someone gets a great idea about naming a new city some other way (not the way the citylist would be suggesting at the moment), like after a big battle or something, there would be a vote approving its "emergency" insertion. New cityname requests (filed after the creation of the list) would be added at the bottom of the list.

That seems a little too complicated for just naming cities.

I'd rather just have a large list of cities (multiple choice polled to be added to that list) which the consuls can pick the most appropriate name for each city from. That way, as long as the consuls can agree on a name then there can be no surprises.

I will put up a poll about how we should pick names in a couple days, so everyone please weigh in or post any other ideas that haven't been suggested yet.

	10-01-2004 00:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov My proposal: --Each minister and consul, past and present, can suggest two city names. (Trip, BFM, and vondrack can only suggest one, due to the cities "Tripoli", "Karina", "BigFurryCity".) --Everyone else can suggest one city name.

I view this as elitist and restrictive. Lets say Im a counsel and I dont care if I name a city. And Beta is a lurker but thinks of 5 great names? Aren't we losing out on some creativity from the whole group?

I still say generate a running list from everyone, and periodically vote on them and the highest vote getters get on the approved list and the counsels place them as they see fit, or better yet with an approved list of names and ET's city placement plan we can then take an approved list and as a group place the names via polls and process of elimination.

quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov --Once we get input from 20 or so members (or at least 30 names), we put all the city names into an Excel file in one column, and randomly generate numbers in the column to its right, then sort, smallest going first. (WARNING: doing this actually generates a new list of random numbers, so it won't match. ) --Work down the list for each new city, in order of founding.

Sounds awfull random to me.

quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Special cities (the new Palace city is the only one that comes to mind at the moment) would be voted on, official poll and everything; separate suggestions would be made for those.

This I agree with this and it sounds feasible.

Make the system easy to administer and open for maximum participation.

And lets find an assistant MOI who administers this. The current Ministers and Counsels have enough to do.

As a semi regular chat rat and a forum lurker Im beginning to get concerned about making sure we dont alienate the occassional lurker.

Just MHO. Nothing personal.

	10-01-2004 01:04									#20
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There is a ton of name suggestions for both units and cities in the Minister of Lex thread.

Maybe we ought to pull all those out that have not been used and start from there.

Lots of creativity but not much organization (of names anyway) and finalization.

Minister of Lex thread

	10-01-2004 05:24									#21
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I'm rather partial to plans that include a CHOICE, whether by the population or by some body of leadership, on city names to specific sites and deciding they like (as a group) certain city names. I don't like the idea of the whole thing being decided at random.

That said, we'll execute whatever plan the population here votes for.

	12-01-2004 08:07									#22
	Remove this text

quote: Lots of creativity but not much organization (of names anyway) and finalization.

Sorry about that It got sort of out of hand

-
I'm sure not all the suggested city names on the first page have been used yet
Notylopia, notyoueitheristan, Main Army Arrives in 3 Turns, etc. all good names as yet left unused

	12-01-2004 08:12									#23
	Put an end to popups!

I just hope than one day, near or far in the future, a city, be it a great size 20 metropolis or a crappy size 1 tundra island outpost, I care not which, be called "Zenophobia"

	12-01-2004 12:33									#24
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I view this as elitist and restrictive. Lets say Im a counsel and I dont care if I name a city. And Beta is a lurker but thinks of 5 great names? Aren't we losing out on some creativity from the whole group?

Hey, by Vlad's idea, I would have two names to make, and so far have made no suggestions - if there is anyone with three names, I can champion two of them

I'd hope though that some of the names suggested would be honouring those who have really made a difference in this game with their knowledge, efforts or participation and have not already got some such thank you. It's such a small thing and it can really be a boost.

	12-01-2004 20:57									#25
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Why not something really simple, for example accepting the default city name at build time?

	12-01-2004 22:00									#26
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Because it's boring ..?

	12-01-2004 23:16									#27
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http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dict...va=protuberance

One entry found for protuberant.
Main Entry: pro·tu·ber·ant
Pronunciation: -b(&-)r&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin protuberant-, protuberans, present participle of protuberare to bulge out, from Latin pro- forward + tuber excrescence, swelling; perhaps akin to Latin tumEre to swell -- more at THUMB
Date: 1646
1 : thrusting out from a surrounding or adjacent surface often as a rounded mass : PROMINENT
2 : forcing itself into consciousness : OBTRUSIVE
- pro·tu·ber·ant·ly adverb



We know what my suggestion is!

	13-01-2004 06:45									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I protuberantly support the decision to have such a city somewhere in our empire, preferably near some small peninsula or similar protruding geographical feature

	13-01-2004 20:31									#29
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This thread is supposed to be about HOW we name cities, not a city name suggestion thread.

If you have suggestions please place them in the Minister of Lex thread where they belong.

Sorry if I sound irritated (because I am) but suggesting ciy names here, there and everywhere is part of the reason the system is disorganized and does not have a lot of partcipation right now, At least IMHO.

Are we going to eventually poll this issue so we can reach a decision and move on?

	14-01-2004 03:19									#30
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Ok, as I see it, the following suggestions have been made:

1. Hot_Enamel's Suggestion:
- Give the Consuls the power to give city names.
- Some cities named because of their location.
- Some cities named after honoured members.
- Some names because they're popular and should be used for no other reason that they sound great.
- Consuls receive suggestions from team members, but ultimately Consuls decide

2. Trip's First Suggestion
- people request to have the ability to name a city
- They are placed in a ranked order of when they may suggest city names
- when their turn comes up, they make their suggestion
- suggestions must then be approved by a 2/3 vote of the team

3. Togas' Suggestion
- people suggest names in a thread (sometimes based upon location, sometimes not)
- every so often, we take all of the names suggested, make a 3-day poll, everyone votes, top names are in.
- Consuls pick the winning names and place them to cities as needed/desired.
- People are open, however, to hold a vote on a particular name for a particular city, however.

4. Trip's Second Suggestion
- multiple-choice poll for the set of cities. Each proposed city name with say, at least 5 votes will be added to the "official list" which the Consuls pick from.

5. Vlad Antlerkov's Suggestion
- Each minister and Consul, past or present, can suggest 2 city names (Trip, BFM and vondrack only get one due to Tripoli, Karina, and BFC)
- Everyone else can suggest one city name
- Once we get input from 20 or so members (or at least 30 names), we put all the city names into an Excel file in one column and randomly generate numbers to determine the order.
- Special cities (the new palace) would be voted on with official poll(s).

6. Vondrack's Suggestion
- gather location-based names from citizens.
- process names according to Vlad's suggestion (using a random number generator and listing them by resulting rank)

7. jim_steer's Suggestion
- The MoI produces a new map of the settlement pan with each of the cities numbered
- People then suggest names for the city numbers, tailoring names appropriately
- Consuls and ministers (past and present) could be allowed to suggest 2 city names with others suggesting one (as Vlad suggested)
- In case of naming conflict, we poll

8. conmcb25's Suggestion
- create a list with as many names from as many people as feel like contributing
- use E_T's city placement plan to give people at least an idea of where cities are

9. roadcage's Suggestion
- just use default city names

10. Arnelos' Suggestion (I'm making this one after reading the whole thread again)
- The MoI produces a map with cities marked by number, as suggested by jim_steer
- Members of the team make suggestions by city LOCATION or by generalized name (usable for any location).
- When a location is ready to be built in the near future (as determined by the Consuls), a name for that city is polled from all names available (this admittedly could take more than one round of voting, so planning ahead could certainly help).
SUB-OPTION A: If a location has any suggested location-specific names, ONLY those names are voted upon for that site. If a site has no location-specific names suggested, then ALL non-location-specific names are voted upon by preference for that site. Since any suggested name must be either location-specific or generalized (not both), this could establish certain sites over which location-specific names get status over names you just wany anywhere.
SUB-OPTION B: Location-specific names and generalized names will still compete for sites that have location-specific names. Instead, we might just make ALL names location-specific, though someone is certainly free to suggest their name for every single city (or half or only a quarter, specific cities they like more for it, whatever).
- If a city does not yet have an official name by the time it is founded in-game, the Consuls will give it a placeholder name. That name will be replaced by a permanent name once chosen by the team.

Personally, I like sub-option B of my suggestion. Everyone can make as many suggestions as they want (all location-specific, though they may suggest as many locations for a name as they want). We vote down the options for a specific location until we have one name that gets a majority vote and becomes the permanent name for that site.

You might think that would lead to a dizzying array of names and endless voting for each site and it MAY indeed increase activity to that effect, but I'm actually banking on that not being very much of a problem. I think we'll get a lot of names, but I think the number we get won't jump exponentially from what's already been happening in the Minister of Lexicography thread... so we'll have perhaps 1-2, perhaps several names per site to vote on. Not too difficult and let's everyone suggest to their heart's content... but the final decision is up to a majority vote of the team for each site.

I'm going to leave this thread open for a bit more discussion for a while, then we'll poll down the methods until we have one method with majority support. Since I'm likely to be out of town from Thursday through Sunday, don't know if *I* will necessarily be here for some of that (either discussion before voting or the first round of voting itself), but I'll certainly organize this as long as I'm here and when I get back.