08-01-2004 17:52									#1
	Your SID level experiences Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just started my first ever SID level game, and wondered how other people have faired ??

First off, out of complete caution (or cowardess) I selected only 2 opponents and the least amount of aggression, convinced that even still, id end up with war on my hands in no time.

Well, its now 800AD, im hopelessly behind in techs (just got Currency .. I know, the shame) .. and im hoping to finally get Republic by 1000AD.. The Indians next to me have expanded so quickly that they have completely surrounded me, and the Greeks are on a mad "Build all wonders" spree.

Even so, im still alive, ive kicked the Greeks and the Indians out of my territory a few times without war, and im 100% convinced, had I put the aggresion level up a notch .. id be dead meat.

Score currently 1900.

Anybody else attempted this and had more success ???

	08-01-2004 18:10									#2
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I tried a coupla times, had 4 opponents and AI aggression level didn't exist.

Just 2 words to describe the experience:

1) Nightmare
2) Impossible


enjoy

	08-01-2004 19:57									#3
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It's pain mostly. The increase in difficulty over Deity is akin to the old difference between Emperor and old Deity - that is to say large.

I'll have another look once the FP situation settles down.

	08-01-2004 20:01									#4
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Hmm...I usually have a hard time at diety. I think I'll wait for the SID-strategy threads.

Good Luck Guys!

	08-01-2004 21:51									#5
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I can't see any way of winning this, unless you turn off cultural or diplomatic victory .. then maybe you could last it out, catch up later on and stand half a chance in a war against your neighbour ???

Certainly, the corruption issue is killing my current game

	08-01-2004 22:27									#6
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The only time I tried Sid level (am usually an emperor/demigod player), I picked the Aztecs thinking that I'd jag rush my neighbors into oblivion.

That was until I saw a stack of 13 Arab warriors and a stack of 13 Byzantine warriors - before I had completed MY FIRST JAG.

Reset, switch to demigod level, try to quit laughing.


I'm convinced that the ONLY way this can be won is with an archipelago map. Am I wrong?


Mo D

	08-01-2004 22:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Hmm...I usually have a hard time at diety. I think I'll wait for the SID-strategy threads. Good Luck Guys!

Um... this is the Sid-Strat thread....

	08-01-2004 23:05									#8
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why don't ya all ask Sid himself? I'm sure he could beat it

	08-01-2004 23:42									#9
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I have yet to play a game of Sid past the Middle Ages (mainly because the gpt bug was ruining games at that point if not sooner). Have gained tech and population parity by then in some games, in others fallen hopelessly behind, or just been overrun by alliances and/or sneak attacks early on.

It's not terribly hard if you have a decent area to grow into. It's viable to take on AI's that lose out in the Iron sweepstakes (if you haven't lost out on it too). A monopoly on Ivory makes winning wars against AI with Iron possible before they get to Pikemen sometimes too.

I find you get about 10 turns near the end of the Ancient Era in most starts to apply a Sword rush against a civ with Iron. Maybe another 20 turns or so before risking running into Muskets against AI without the Iron. Before then you just can't build/upgrade enough Swords to safely hit anyone by yourself, and after you have no shot before building up huge numbers of bombardment units. Even if you're "winning" the war when Pikemen show up, you'll end up paying for peace (you just can't win big enough unless the alliances are set up right), so have something ready to offer up. It's a good deal if you can take a few cities and/or generate a MGL. An army really makes a huge difference at Sid.

The AI absolutely ignore Literature regardless of difficulty level, and so a Great Library prebuild can beat them to it. Need to trade for Writing somehow once it shows up to have a good shot at it. Can be very useful.

Zeus is one of the biggest problems IMO. The AI build it very early when they have Ivory, and by the time you can get a military of your own together, it may have outproduced you by itself. Ancient Cavalry (on top of the AI's flood of regular units) are pretty much impossible to deal with unless you have a Sword army.

0 range bombard for Archers is one of the other major factors that makes Sid much harder than comparably modded PtW/vanilla difficulties.

	08-01-2004 23:43									#10
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Sid? He doesn't even play Civ anymore.

	09-01-2004 00:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson The AI absolutely ignore Literature regardless of difficulty level, and so a Great Library prebuild can beat them to it.

I wonder if this will remain..........I also noticed it from the many starts to AD I played before the FP hoop-la started, and it does seem to offer a chink of light for Deity and Sid games.

	09-01-2004 05:13									#12
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Aeson, have you tried Archer Rushes? Admittedly only at Demi-god, but I lost out on the iron (and horse!) sweepstakes in my current game, and had great success with Archers as the Sumerians... Even up to the point of Longbows / Trebuchets against Muskets, it was viable.

	09-01-2004 05:19									#13
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I'm sure you could find a counterexample but archer rushes are tough on Sid............they just have soooo many units, and they'll have pikes and probably swords (or medieval infantry) pretty early. Your window with archers is excruciatingly small.

	09-01-2004 05:27									#14
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* Theseus shakes his fist! I'll take on Pikes and Swords and MedInf and Lions and Tigers and Bears with Archers!!

* Theseus thinks to himself: Holy cr*ppola, now what have I gotten myself into... where's that damn ivory??!!

	09-01-2004 06:16									#15
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Too many start units? A mere 12 offensive and 6 defensive, Thesues is not scare of them. Well if you have Germany for your neighbor, I would be scared.

	09-01-2004 18:05									#16
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Yes, I noticed the Great Library still available, I wonder why its ignored ? Some culture for me finally

A good early start is so critical with this level, and a clear bit of land to do it on, the AI took no time at all to surround me, and whats worse is, the culture flipping.

Delhi is to the left of my civ, and yet the Indian cities to the righ, a considerable distance from their centre, have started flipping my new built cities, I can only imagine they've got a FP over that side ???

I can see me losing this game, not to the expected mass attack .. but to the culture flipping.

	09-01-2004 18:12									#17
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Culture flipping is to be sure an issue. Thing is, you spend so long building up an army that can make a dent in theirs that you are way way behind in culture. Flips back are one thing, but I too have seen native cities flip in a Deity game where I started close to the Romans.

	09-01-2004 20:35									#18
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The most effective way I found to beat Deity was to play tiny pangea maps as the Ironquios or Persians after playing that type of game enough times it was a realiable way of winning. I tried it once on Sid but it got annilated, even using a GA fueled chariot - MW upgrade spree I still got my ass handed to me.

I'm thinking about trying a tiny archy 80% water map with either the dutch or Byzantines, if all the AI get screwed badly enough and you get an ok start you may be able to get somewhere. I've seen some starts on these maps that even the sid AI could do nothing with.

	09-01-2004 21:44									#19
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ok you guys made me want to try again... But I'm gonna try it with arcipelago and seafaring civ.

Cos I'm just not up to fight Knights with Archers on a pangea or continent map

	09-01-2004 21:56									#20
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The easiest setting for Sid is now IMO archipelago with seafaring, but not for the reasons given. Essentially it means that the pace of advancement is much slower, since the AI will be slow to contact other civs. Also, the 'suiciding' curragh is now available to the human from the word go and is an overpowered tactic in reality since the AI will not use it. But on Sid..........whatever goes I'd say.

	09-01-2004 22:28									#21
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of course those side reasons were thought too... but I still would give up the ability to build Curraghs (especially if you're not seafaring when they move only 2 squares) if that would save me from fighting knights with archers, thank you.

	10-01-2004 06:25									#22
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Scary stuff, this Sid mode, I'm at 210bc with 16 cities, researching Code of Laws atm.
Been seeing nothing but Medieval infantry running around, whilst I'm stuck with 35 spears and 19 swords.

Playing as Mayans pretty much standard settings, the middle maptype on a standard map with standard amount of enemies, etc, just the barb setts turned down a notch from raging

So far so good, even though I feel they could wipe me off the face of this map whenever they feel like it.

Good start, with two cows to split between two starting cities, so a good Rexing deal, currently trying to figure out how to catch up, LOL.

EDIT: forgot to mention, a stack of 16 MI a handfull of archers and pikes as well as the fact that I got ZERO luxuries to work with. This is starting to look bleak.

	10-01-2004 06:32									#23
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Culture stats at 210bc, OUCH

Attachment: 210bcculture.jpg
This has been downloaded 643 time(s).

	10-01-2004 16:36									#24
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I feel your pain. Are any of their capitals nearby.........if so watch for the flips of your external cities.

And if (big if) you build up enough units to take a city or 2 holding on to it is going to be tough.

	10-01-2004 20:15									#25
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400AD, I'm still alive but my pikemen are telling me all the cavarly scares them a bit

Just made the switch to republic and had to sell about 30 troops in order to make even a slight profit with 30% luxury and 0% research!

I thought about throwing 20 swords and 10 pikes at the Inca, but noticed they had riflemen so decided not to

Still no luxuries, but also not a single culture flip yet, so I'm doing great considering the circumstances.

Going to abandon this game now, next one will on a slightly more favorable map I think. It's just no fun hearing how the Koreans build Newton's university when you're just learning to write

	10-01-2004 20:20									#26
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Hehe I don't think it's worth going republic until you have conquered enough cities to be a force in the game. And if you haven't done that already you may as well give up I'm afraid.

Try archipelago with the dutch and a nice wet map. No shame in cooking it a little.

	10-01-2004 20:30									#27
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I've tried it a few times, and I've had the most success when:

1 - I was isolated (you can actually get more than 3-6 cities).
2 - The AI razed quite a few cities of a neighboring civ (allowed me to get about 12 cities total one game).

	10-01-2004 20:36									#28
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Yeah if only there was a "Bismarck, Gandhi said you were an uncouth barbarian" option.

	11-01-2004 11:00									#29
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Am I given to understand that NOBODY has won a game yet at Sid level?

	11-01-2004 11:00									#30
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Yeah if only there was a "Bismarck, Gandhi said you were an uncouth barbarian" option.

I'm not uncouth.