17-03-2004 23:50									#181
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quote: Originally posted by debeest JR, I think SG is noting that you meant Eiffel, not Oracle.

Hmm?
** -Jrabbit lifts head from checking spelling of "Oracle" for the 12th time... **


( @ self...)

	24-03-2004 00:17									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk JR Great set of turns and a rockin log. Kudos and thanks!! This is becoming a very dirty piece of work. Monk

Ditto --

	26-03-2004 02:01									#183
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Computer crash, then a worm, then 'banned' from Apolyton and now RL = I don't think I can play before monday
... if someone feels like playing before me, please do !

	26-03-2004 06:30									#184
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Oh Boy! Banned from Apolyton - I thought Eyes of Night was the last guy to get that award! And your offence?? Inquiring minds want to know....

	26-03-2004 07:39									#185
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Just a guess, but I think the "scare quotes" indicate something non-site related; very real, RL.

Hope all is well soonest.

Monk

	26-03-2004 21:31									#186
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Heh. If you think Eyes was the last one to get banned, you clearly don't read the off-topic forum at all!

I hope all is well, La Fayette.

	26-03-2004 22:28									#187
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The only time I visit the off-topic arena is when there is a call to vote posted here.

La Fayette -- (searches for inspiring words in French and fails)

	27-03-2004 00:51									#188
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Nope, LF was not banned - he had some connection problems ....
Drat, could have been a great bit of gossip

Stu

	27-03-2004 07:54									#189
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You're right, debeest, I never read the OT forum at all. Well, maybe glanced at it once or twice in 4 years.

But I study the CivII Strategy forum a lot...without having learned nearly as much as I would like to admit.

	29-03-2004 23:13									#190
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I only started reading OT a few months ago, and I find it strangely compelling. Like hearing about a car crash where you find out it happened because somebody was -- uh -- entertaining the driver. It's horrifying, but you can't help wanting to learn more. And they're not quite as genteel as the folks who frequent the game forums -- even though it includes some of the same people.

I, too, have learned much, but still much less than I should have, from the strat forum. I'd say you've done well, judging by what I've seen of your logs and your commentary here.

	30-03-2004 00:10									#191
	Tired of ads?

It was more than four yrs ago that I "discovered" Poly's Strat Forum and I was blown away and hooked on the site, instantly. I learned so much (and had so much fun). I reread the old stuff a lot because I find something new regularly. Probably a facet of faulty memory.

Whatever, the Strat Forum and the Great Library are very valuable sources.

Monk

	30-03-2004 02:34									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I reread the old stuff a lot because I find something new regularly. Probably a facet of faulty memory. Monk

Its allways good practice to review things we learn. New life experience, changes as we mature, and greater understanding of what we learned last time will always provide the oportunity to learn something new from even the most basic lessons.

Take heart that this does not mean you have failed in your first attempt, but succeeded in your second.

	30-03-2004 03:39									#193
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Sorry, I forgot the smilie
I have not been banned
but I have had serious hardware and software problems uncluding lack of connection to Apolyton.

I am currently playing my 10 turns.
Save and log tomorrow.

	30-03-2004 22:19									#194
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Priorities (after a look at the save):
- Shipchaining between our islands
- Building and delivering lots of camels to Shanghai
- Finding Nanking (with Leo inside)
- Establishing Embassies (we have only one with the Chinese)
- Lux at 60 (in order to get 'celebrating Fundy')

Main events:

1782:
- We take Xinjian
- Peace with the Aztecs (in order to be able to break it next turn, if possible )

1784:
- Hut = 100g
- Aztec sneak attack ( = how can we get a despicable rep if they are dirtier than we are ?)
- CF with Chinese (perhaps we manage to break that one )

1786:
- We break CF = rep down to despicable ( at long last)
- 4 camels to Shanghai (total = 360g)

1790:
- the end of Beijing (2 red wonders )
- SLOWSTINKER founded where Beijing used to be
- MORETHANGORE founded faraway
- Battle of crusaders west of Xinjian (2 losses on each side)

1792:
- The Chinese crusaders were defending NANKING
- Silk delivered to Shanghai (d) = 328g
- Other camels (nd) = 126g, 104g and 124g
- Embassies with Babs and French

1794:
- Explosives discovered (r = Economics)
- Embassies with Carths and Aztecs = the Aztecs own Economics

1796:
- Barb knights kill 2 diplomats
- Silk (nd) to Shanghai = 79g
- Our ironclad breaks peace treaty with the French ( rep remains despicable)
- Barb king = 150g
- Economics 'acquired' from the Aztecs

1798:
- Researching The Corporation
- Our valiant crusader destroys 2 Aztec crusaders
- Our valiant ironclad sinks French caravel

1800:
- Barb king = 150g
- Camels to Shanghai = 40g + 59g + 60g + 87g + 66g + 72g + 30g + 136g

Notes to my successor:
- Please don't destroy our shipchain between Samarkand and Slowstinker
- Our musketman east of Nanking should climb the mountain, just before building an instafort and bringing our 3 cannons (this should give us Leo within 3-4 turns)
- The numerous camels stacked inside Hangshow are to be delivered to Shanghai, preferably before acquiring Leo, since getting The Corporation before Leo will upgrade all remaining camels)

Attachment: di_a1800.sav
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	30-03-2004 23:12									#195
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette - The numerous camels stacked inside Hangshow are to be delivered to Shanghai, preferably before acquiring Leo, since getting The Corporation before Leo will upgrade all remaining camels)

* Sparrowhawk thinks that La Fayette is teaching him something new here, but got lost in the wording

Are you saying it is better to deliver camels then freight? I thought the opposite was true, but have never read a thread on the topic I don't think.

I would have thought it would have been most advantageous to not deliver until after getting Leo's and The Corporation, to allow the caravans to upgrade and get an additional bonus for it. Am I wrong or am I misreading what I quoted above?

	31-03-2004 02:44									#196
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From the point of view of camels & trucks, I don't think that it will make a big difference either way. We're getting our tech from deliveries, so if half of our trade is cashed in for Corp, then get Leo's, the fre upgrade makes trucks ready for delivery continuing that turn.

On the other hand, getting Leo's first offers upgrades all around, then making the camel deliveries gets us a new tech, allowing for another round of upgrades the next turn. It looks like Corp before Leo's might buy us a turn, and Leo's before Corp might buy us an extra round of upgrades depending upon the stock of goods available.

The marginal value may be slight in either direction -- up to SG [1].

	31-03-2004 03:09									#197
	Got spare money?

We are in Fundy and our current rate of research (at 30% science) is about 20 turns/tech (apart from deliveries).
If we don't deliver any camel, we'll get The Corporation about 10 turns ahead, which means that none of our numerous camels will be upgraded when we get Leo about 3 or 4 turns from now (and the rule compells us to get rid the wonder ASAP).
That is why, in THIS game, it is highly advisable to get The Corporation ASAP (which means delivering many camels to Shanghai).
IMO the marginal value of this strategy is HIGH (despite OnS opinion ).

	31-03-2004 13:30									#198
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I think I'm up in both this one & the Scorched Earth - will try my best guys ....

Stu

	31-03-2004 21:46									#199
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Upgrades from Leo's are a priority; but having the necessary tech for the camels to upgrade BEFORE Nanking/Leo gets razed seems a safer, more conservative course. Not sure the prior arguements factored in razing Leo. Therefore, unless someone is sure of getting both done in time, the point goes to La Fayette the Prudent.

Nice turns!! Slowstinker!??!

Monk

	01-04-2004 01:18									#200
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One more look at the save shows that conquering Nanking requires 5 turns.

The strategy I had in mind is to discover The Corporation on the very same turn, which corresponds to 5 turns research at the current rate of 106 beakers/turn + about 5 deliveries in Shanghai (about 100 beakers each).

We have 29 camels now.
Therefore the result would be 24 camels upgraded to freights if we don't build any more camel in between. Of course it is highly advisable to build many camels and musketmen instead (and my successor can do that very easily since our current treasury is close to 6000 gold).

	01-04-2004 01:27									#201
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3 more points:
- It is probably advisable to build one more cannon for safe attack against Nanking.
- I forgot to mention that we had 'acquired' Sanitation from the Aztecs.
- There are 2 diplomats onboard a ship sailing along the northern coast of the Aztec island. One of them should steal Conscription (which would provide upgrading of all our musketmen when we take Nanking).

	01-04-2004 02:26									#202
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Stu,

Looks like La Fayette has outlined a good plan for you.

Who is the guy with the hot lady in your new avatar?

Monk

	01-04-2004 08:50									#203
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Thanks for the clarification La Fayette, I understand now what your thinking is (I think ), and also went back and reread what you originally wrote, and realize where I went wrong in my reading, I assumed you meant delivering the majority of the caravans before Leo's made the Caravans--->Freight was a good thing, but what you meant was delivering Caravans to get The Corporation, in order to get the remaining Caravans upgraded to Freight. Much clearer now

	01-04-2004 12:07									#204
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Plan?! - sounds as if he has played my turn !!!

Seriously, LF has been doing some serious thinking - if only I played this game with as much forethought.

Monk,
SWMBO will be flattered, for 'tis she and myself at the last Halloween party we attended - as Count and Lady Dracula

Stu

	01-04-2004 12:27									#205
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It was either going to be SWMBO or {3}. Glad I was correct. Like all happy and successful men you appear to have married up. Congratulations again to the handsome, power couple.

I too was very impressed by La Fayette's thoughtful post. He's figured more angles than a snooker player. Now, go make the shot.

Monk

	04-04-2004 02:51									#206
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Glad to read there's no need of major dentistry, Stu.

Beautiful Draculette! I'm thinking there's not too much Scousian resistance in the "MBO" area...

	07-04-2004 02:06									#207
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette ...That is why, in THIS game, it is highly advisable to get The Corporation ASAP (which means delivering many camels to Shanghai). IMO the marginal value of this strategy is HIGH (despite OnS opinion ).

My thinking was to do both on or about the same turn. Getting Corp a few turns earlier is not significantly worse (your plan) and may be better. Getting Corp a few turns later is a waste -- and you're correct with the analysis there.

My nit of a question was whether or not the Corp tech would provide an extra round of Leo upgrades -- it may take two or three to bring all of our units up to some sort of standard level.

	08-04-2004 22:47									#208
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IIRC SG1 is up, but If needed I could jump in to keep things moving.

	09-04-2004 01:34									#209
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Please do Zedd - we have zillions of house guests over Easter

Stu

	09-04-2004 23:51									#210
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My apologies but I was only able to complete 3 turns last night. I started arround 10:00 pm and by 1:00am decided I needed rest. There are alot of cities to manage.