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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:33
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Uralvagonzavod, T-800U
(Russian version, the most advanced and the baddest ass terminator, of course)
 Attachment: terminator-2putin.jpg
This has been downloaded 159 time(s).
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:33
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Beylorussian fake: T-800LU
Attachment: term_lucashenko.jpg
This has been downloaded 159 time(s).
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Patroklos
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Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:33
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Western Europeans
The Waffen-SS recruited many foreign volunteers into its ranks. After the May 1940 "Victory in the West," the SS began an active program to gain Western European recruits for several new Wafffen-SS volunteer legions. This effort intensified after June 1941, as the SS exhorted volunteers to join the "anti-bolshevik" campaign in the Soviet Union.
Why were the Waffen-SS were so interested in Western European volunteers? This effort was in response to Hitler and the German army setting strict quotas on the number of German youth the SS could recruit.
Over 125,000 West Europeans volunteered for the SS. Although their experiences really need to be researched on a unit by unit basis, here are some common elements regarding their service:
They took slightly different oath than Germans
They were often (at least at first) treated as 2nd class citizens by German SS officers
Language differences were an issue
They were exposed to less Nazi indoctrination, or the Nazi propaganda was tailored to their nationality
The were often partly motivated by their own political or nationalistic agendas
They were often the most disciplined and fanatic SS warriors
As the war progressed, they realized that their countrymen began to look on them as traitors and collaborators
At first Nazi racial polices determined acceptance level of volunteers. For example: Flemish volunteers were considered "aryan" enough to volunteer for the Waffen-SS, whereas Walloons were not; which is why the Walloon volunteer legion was assimilated at first by the German Army, not the SS. These racial standards were increasingly ignored as the German war fortunes declined and the SS was in desparate need of manpower.
Volksdeutsche
The Waffen-SS also recruited great numbers of Volksdeutsche from central and eastern European countries as well. Despite their ethinc background, these troops often suffered greater language and motivation difficulties that the western legions. Volksdeutsche seemed to have a bit of a mixed reputation among the Reichdeutsche Waffen-SS - in some instances they were considered good soliders, yet in others the volksdeutsche were considered cowardly and untrustworthy.
Eastern/Central European/Balkan volunteers
As the German fortunes steadily declined, the Waffen-SS took to recruiting or conscripting increasing numbers of foreign recruits that were by no stretch of the imagination bore any relation to the Nazi "ideal." These troops, although numerous, were perhaps the least motivated of all.
Country/Ethnicity Estimated # of volunteers Waffen-SS Units
Albanian 3,000 21st SS Division
Belgian: Flemish 23,000 5th SS Div., 27th SS Div.
Belgium: Walloon 15,000 5th SS Div., 28th SS Div.
British Commonwealth (English) 50 British Freikorps
Bulgaria 200-1,000? Bulgarisches Reg.
Croatia (includes Bosnian Muslims) 30,000 7th SS Div., 13th SS Div.
23rd SS Div.
Denmark 10,000 Freikorps Danemark, 11th SS Div.
Indian 3,500 Volunteer Leg.
Estonia 20,000 20th SS Div.
Finland 1,000 Volunteer Bat.
Hungarians 15,000? 25th SS Div., 26th SS Div.
33rd SS Div.
Latvia 39,000 15th SS Div., 19th SS Div.
Netherlands 50,000 23rd SS Div., 34th SS Div.
Norway 6,000 5th SS Div., 6th SS Div.
11th SS Div., Volunteer Leg.
France 8,000 33rd SS Div.
Italy 20,000 29th SS (Italian)
Poland/Ukraine 25,000 14th SS Div.
Russian (Belorussia) 12,000 29th SS Div., 30th SS Div.
Russian (Cossak) 40,000 XV SS Kosaken-Kavallerie-Korps
Russian (Turkic) 8,000 Ostürkische SS , Tatarishe SS
Rumania 3,000? Waffen-Grenadierregiment der SS (rumänisches 1)
Serbia 15,000 Volunteer Corps
Spain 200 - 1,000? Spanische-Freiwilligen-Kompanie der SS 101
Sweden, Switzerland & Luxemburg 3,000?* 5th SS Div., 11th SS Div.
Note: W-SS veteran and historian Wilhelm Tieke claims only 175 Swedes served in the W-SS 1940-45 and that the "Swedish company" in the 11th SS actually had many "Estonian Swedes".
No granted this is only the SS, but the Army was several times the size of the SS and thus probobly had in its rankes a much larger number than the Waffen SS. I included the Western numbers because in the overall arguement of a Soviet/Allied war. Several hundred thousand western volunteers joined primarily to fight against the Bolsheviks, with an occupying power comitting attrocitites. US/UK could expect at least the same support or more. Tehre were commnits in the West, but like most things Serb says, their power is exagerated.
Last edited by Patroklos on 11-01-2004 at 21:30
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Errr, it is a mistkae to think the USUK were nice when they were conquering enemy territory back in the day. A short visit in any German city that was important at the time shows that the USUK didn't hesitate at killing throngs of Civilians to reach their military objectives. |
The Western Allies never institutionalised the murder of civilians, unlike the Germans.
One example of the German butchery was an order issued by the German Sixth Army during early 1942. German soldiers were told that any civilian with short hair seen behind the lines was likely a Russian soldier so these should be shot. Shot, not captured, just shot.
German soldiers were also told to shoot anyone found supply food to partisans, an order that basically meant that any civilian carrying food was shot.
For the most part, the Western Allies treated POWs fairly, unlike the Germans who shot, tortured, and starved Russian POWs. The Germans got their just desserts when they were captured.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
So? Your logistics were still in shambles (relative to the western allies), and we had as many people on the ground as the Red Army did.
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Whether the Allied troops would have fought the Russians is highly questionable. When the war in Europe ended, many troops argued that they should be send home, having done their duty, rather than being sent to the Pacific.
If they were unwilling to fight the Japanese, it is highly likely that most troops would have been unwilling to launch an unprovoked attack on Russia.
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Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Western Europeans
Eastern/Central European/Balkan volunteers
As the German fortunes steadily declined, the Waffen-SS took to recruiting or conscripting increasing numbers of foreign recruits that were by no stretch of the imagination bore any relation to the Nazi "ideal." These troops, although numerous, were perhaps the least motivated of all.
Country/Ethnicity Estimated # of volunteers Waffen-SS Units
Albanian 3,000 21st SS Division
Belgian: Flemish 23,000 5th SS Div., 27th SS Div.
Belgium: Walloon 15,000 5th SS Div., 28th SS Div.
British Commonwealth (English) 50 British Freikorps
Bulgaria 200-1,000? Bulgarisches Reg.
Croatia (includes Bosnian Muslims) 30,000 7th SS Div., 13th SS Div.
23rd SS Div.
Denmark 10,000 Freikorps Danemark, 11th SS Div.
Indian 3,500 Volunteer Leg.
Estonia 20,000 20th SS Div.
Finland 1,000 Volunteer Bat.
Hungarians 15,000? 25th SS Div., 26th SS Div.
33rd SS Div.
Latvia 39,000 15th SS Div., 19th SS Div.
Netherlands 50,000 23rd SS Div., 34th SS Div.
Norway 6,000 5th SS Div., 6th SS Div.
11th SS Div., Volunteer Leg.
France 8,000 33rd SS Div.
Italy 20,000 29th SS (Italian)
Poland/Ukraine 25,000 14th SS Div.
Russian (Belorussia) 12,000 29th SS Div., 30th SS Div.
Russian (Cossak) 40,000 XV SS Kosaken-Kavallerie-Korps
Russian (Turkic) 8,000 Ostürkische SS , Tatarishe SS
Rumania 3,000? Waffen-Grenadierregiment der SS (rumänisches 1)
Serbia 15,000 Volunteer Corps
Spain 200 - 1,000? Spanische-Freiwilligen-Kompanie der SS 101
Sweden, Switzerland & Luxemburg 3,000?* 5th SS Div., 11th SS Div.
Note: W-SS veteran and historian Wilhelm Tieke claims only 175 Swedes served in the W-SS 1940-45 and that the "Swedish company" in the 11th SS actually had many "Estonian Swedes".
No granted this is only the SS, but the Army was several times the size of the SS and thus probobly had in its rankes a much larger number than the Waffen SS. I included the Western numbers because in the overall arguement of a Soviet/Allied war. Several hundred thousand western volunteers joined primarily to fight against the Bolsheviks, with an occupying power comitting attrocitites. US/UK could expect at least the same support or more. Tehre were commnits in the West, but like most things Serb says, their power is exagerated. |
On a side note, please see there is no mention of Lithuanian volunteers who had enough brains and national pride to take their rifles and go the woods and fight first Germans, then Russians.
To be fair, there were many young Lithuanians in the extermination squads that gave Lithuania the worst holocaust victim/1000 capita statistic.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
He only lists figures that have concrete evidence. Even then when this is ambiguous or questinable he adds "?" to point this our. There has always been problems verifying numbers. It is further complicated becasue the "ethnic" SS divisions rarely even started out majority ethnic, and most definitly didn't stay that way for long. Though the 11th SS Nordland seems to be an excepton, usually maintaining 50/50 named ethnic and German mix. |
He also claims the Waffen SS were civilrous (sp?, I'm drunk and can't be bothered to spell it right). What's honourable about killing unarmed civilians. Hell, the Waffen SS even killed unarmed Germans.
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11-01-2004 12:28
) of the prototypes....
Attachment: 
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