03-02-2004 21:01									#31
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Oh and Occam's razor is a decidedly crappy argument because one does not know the definition of 'simpler'. Just look at fundamental physics - introducing supersymmetry for example doubles the number of particles we have, so by your criterion should be thrown out. But all string theories need supersymmetry, so if string theory is right (and it is very elegant), then supersymmetry is right too.

We are not in the position to say whether or not a universe without God is simpler or not, so we cannot use Occam's razor.

	03-02-2004 21:02									#32
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV I have a number of objections to your post, not least the assumption that I am a religionist. More to the point your thread question is inevitably about the meaning of belief, something you now wish to avoid discussing. I do not feel inclined to pursue a debate where you are redefining parameters as you go. I believe that to be pointless.

You accuse me of back-pedalling, as you proceed do the same thing?
I am no rookie of debate, CerberusIV. I know a bail-out when I see one.

If you have a mere inkling of the English language, you can see what my thread is about.

You merely seek to drag the issue off the rails.

"How would react if it was proven there is no deities."

That is the question.

not this:

"Let's all discuss the reasons it was proven and the meaning of belief."

No matter.
Come back when you can tackle the thread question.

	03-02-2004 21:02									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

Indeed.

	03-02-2004 21:04									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Oh and Occam's razor is a decidedly crappy argument because one does not know the definition of 'simpler'. Just look at fundamental physics - introducing supersymmetry for example doubles the number of particles we have, so by your criterion should be thrown out. But all string theories need supersymmetry, so if string theory is right (and it is very elegant), then supersymmetry is right too. We are not in the position to say whether or not a universe without God is simpler or not, so we cannot use Occam's razor.

Please, Rogan!

The thread is about reactions, not proof or lack of.

	03-02-2004 21:04									#35
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curt -- where are my brownies for answering your questions?

	03-02-2004 21:41									#36
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They are being loaded into a bomber as we speak!

	03-02-2004 21:43									#37
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woohoo!!

	03-02-2004 21:49									#38
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Free from consequences for immoral actions, I would launch a crusade to kill people who ask really stupid questions based on impossible premises.

	03-02-2004 21:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Come back when you can tackle the thread question.

You ask a question of dubious construction and then seek to channel the responses. Go find a religious fundie to wind up.

	03-02-2004 21:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Free from consequences for immoral actions, I would launch a crusade to kill people who ask really stupid questions based on impossible premises.

Copycat.

	03-02-2004 21:54									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Free from consequences for immoral actions, I would launch a crusade to kill people who ask really stupid questions based on impossible premises.

And like most crusades, it would end in death and dishonour.

	03-02-2004 21:57									#42
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV You ask a question of dubious construction and then seek to channel the responses.

The question's rationale is not dubious.
Only the ability of some individuals to digest the basics.

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Go find a religious fundie to wind up.

I won't have far to look.

	03-02-2004 21:59									#43
	Re: Religionists - If Your Deity Was Proven To Be Unreal, How Would You React? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Religionists - If Your Deity Was Proven To Be Unreal, How Would You React?

I would do the traditional thing - I would hail the original thinker as the new Messiah and then nail them to a tree as a sacrifice to the other Gods.

Can't see many takers for the privelage on that basis.

Incidentally, blood sacrifice isn't usually part of my religion - but I'd make an exception in this case.

	03-02-2004 22:01									#44
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May I reiterate the thread focus.

It is not about the reasons why the non-existence of deities was proven.

But about reactions to the fact.

Objectivity is the buzz-word here.

Thanks.

	03-02-2004 22:02									#45
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling May I reiterate the thread focus.

No.

	03-02-2004 22:09									#46
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling And like most crusades, it would end in death and dishonour.

Yes, it would end in your death and dishonour.

	03-02-2004 22:10									#47
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@DinoDoc:

If trolling and childishness is what you are reduced to hurling at me, then you prove a point.

That abuse and insults are the last refuge of the vanquished religionist.

	03-02-2004 22:11									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Yes, it would end in your death and dishonour.

Own goal:

You are the one who is crusading.

	03-02-2004 22:29									#49
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I know how they would react:

DENIAL

it ain't just a river in egypt

	03-02-2004 22:57									#50
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I'd go "Uh...OK. Whatever." and go cook some eggs, or something.

	03-02-2004 23:02									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp I'd go "Uh...OK. Whatever." and go cook some eggs, or something.

Any particular kind of eggs? Free range?

I'm just looking for religious behaviour here... is there a special diet for the debunked believer?

	03-02-2004 23:04									#52
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To answer the question seriously, if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no "god" or "higher power", then I would continue to live out my life as I always have, because I would continue to believe in the eternal life of the soul, reincarnation and some sort of nirvana-like existence.

Practically speaking, in real world terms, I would do what Laz does (cook eggs), but I would be thinking the above paragraph.

	03-02-2004 23:15									#53
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I don't believe that anything can be proven about what happens when we die... that's why there will always be religion.

	03-02-2004 23:15									#54
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@monolith94:

That is a good answer, among several good posts so far.

	03-02-2004 23:30									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't believe that anything can be proven about what happens when we die... that's why there will always be religion.

That fact is entirely dependant on our fear of death.

And how we tackle death.

If we, as a species do not die as regularly,
then we will not need to use religion as a security blanket, so to speak.

	04-02-2004 00:04									#56
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling @DinoDoc: If trolling and childishness is what you are reduced to hurling at me, then you prove a point. That abuse and insults are the last refuge of the vanquished religionist.

You'd have to prove that I take this thread seriously before drawing any valuable conclusions from my behavior.

	04-02-2004 00:21									#57
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quote: Just imagine whatever deity/cosmic order you follow and all it's attendant dogma was proven to be unreal...

I hate eggs, so I'd just cook some bacon, and enjoy my lunch.

Bacon just tastes so good.

	04-02-2004 00:56									#58
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Please read my first post. If you cannot get away from the unprovable aspects of your creed for a moment, that is hardly my fault. I merely pose a question. And the lack of proof for any deity is just as compelling as the so-called proof in favour.

Lack of proof is useless when you're dealing with the concept of a theoretically omnipotent and omniscient being. You can't possibly second-guess someone whose motives you'll never understand. There's no absolute proof of God either. Believe or not.

Faith in an uncertainty is useful for salvation for many reasons, not least of which is that it encourages one to stop assuming one is the arbiter and judge of all truth, and thereby unclouds the eye of the soul.

And don't give me the usual jibber-jabber about primitive superstition and the triumph of science. Science is the investigation of natural phenomena. It has little if anything to do with the supernatural. The confusion of religion and science in the past is not an error commited by me in the present, AFAIK. Feel free to accuse others of "creation science" (Maybe you weren't even going to mention that to me, in which case my apologies. I was just trying to head off a rant before it happened).

And if we do not die as frequently, our own spite and evil will merely drive us to living hell. I'll have to ask Ben, but I believe That Hideous Strength addressed the subject of eugenics/transhumanism at length.

	04-02-2004 00:59									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I hate eggs, so I'd just cook some bacon, and enjoy my lunch. Bacon just tastes so good.

funny, i was thinking more or less the same thing. Bacon - real bacon, not the veggie or turkey variety. and crabcakes. And lobster, I suppose.

	04-02-2004 01:04									#60
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You'd have to prove that I take this thread seriously before drawing any valuable conclusions from my behavior.

LOL!

Since when did I have to prove anything?

Your total avoidance of the thread question reflects your minset on many levels.

If you cannot muster the wit to tackle the question, then kindly stop spamming.