05-02-2004 01:51									#1
	Turn 160, 440 AD Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Education (7 turns)
- 645 (685) gold cash, -20 (+20) gpt. (est)
- Slider at 5/5/0 tax/sci/lux

Urgent questions & tasks:
MoW - Work on and complete a long-term defense plan
MoW/MoI- Build Queues?
MoI - REX, preparing for palace jump
MoI - wonder builds?
FAM - CFC tech sharing deal: amount of money
FAM - Peace with GCA
Consulate and Team - Work on and complete a new strategic plan

Unit movement & actions

Unit Roster

To be edited by MoW

Economy:
Apolyton - Sell off both Barracks and Granary - city will be gone in 11 turns...
Boston - Change build to Warrior. ??Rush for 32 Gold??
Karina - Settler built, start building Market.
El-Amarna - Change build to Galley. ??Rush for 116Gold??
To be edited by MoI

WF:
Apolyton - starting WF 4-6-8-13-16 & 1 Sci. NC. Note: will have a shortage, don't worry about it, this is part of the plan.
Lakeveiw - starting WF 5-13. NC.
"Boston" - starting WF 6. Change WF to Sci.
Mingapulco - starting WF 1-5-6-7-8-12. Change WF to 1-5-6-7-8-15.
Chaquita - starting WF 1-6-8-13. NC.
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-8-13-18-19 (Working game). NC.
Incensity - starting WF 4-5-6-7-17. NC
Area X (Dominus) - starting WF 1-2-8. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-9-17-18-19. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF 3-6. NC.
Hispanica - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-2-3-4-5-20. NC
Power of Victory - starting WF 2-3-11. NC.
Karina - (settler built) starting WF 4-11-17-18. Change WF to 3-4-11-17.
LuxInvicta - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-3-5-7. Change WF to 1-2-3-11.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3-4-8-10. NC.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC
Apolyton Prime - starting WF 2-3-7. NC.
"El-Amarna" - starting WF 4. Change WF to Sci.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-4-5-12-13. NC.
Elucidium Novem - starting WF 2-3-8. NC.
Iceburg - starting WF 19. NC.
Arcadia - starting WF 7. NC.
Zenophobia - starting WF 1-2. NC.
Solace - starting WF 8. NC.

Workers:
Mark & Otto - Irrigate (done).
Lib & Slave Farb - move 6-6-9.
Screech & Sanchez - move 6, will road next turn.
Go3 - move 2, will road next turn.
LAN Party - move 7-7-4, will start Mining next turn.
Yo & Slave Anarchy - move 1, will road next turn.
Rush & rah - move 8-9-9 (to AP 1), will Irrigate next turn.
Empress - road built, worker frozen.
Spike & Moosefart - tile cleared, workers frozen.
GP - start roading (2 turns to complete).
Squid & Horse - start clearing Jungle (6 turns to complete).
Monkee & CalcII - start clearing Jungle (6 turns to complete).
Larry - start clearing Jungle (12 turns to complete).
Frodo & Out of Darkenss - 5 turns left to clear.
Curly - 2 turns left to Road.

Settlers: see General Overall City Placement Plan #1 for locations
Also, see
Phase 2: End of the War to when the FP is built for the Phase 2 sites
NOTE: 1 more settler left for the Phase 2 builds.
Settler PolyA (going to site 30 - "Corner") - move 1, will build city next turn.
Settler PolyB (going to site 14) - move 4-4-7.
Settler HoDA (going to site 25 - "Fish")- move 2-2-2.
Settler HispA (going to site 12) - move 1-1-1.
Settler NanaA (going to site 16)- move 1-1-1.
New Settler from Karina (name him KarinaA - going to site 13) - move 4-4-4


Diplomacy:
GCA: (Mostly) Phony War (War in game)
CFC: Alliance, NAP (Peace in game)
CGN: Peace, Tech Embargo against GWT (Peace in game)
GWT: Cold War (Peace in game)

Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 14-02-2004 at 01:51

	12-02-2004 04:19									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

GWT is holding the save until tomorrow about this time.

	12-02-2004 20:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What do you mean by 'tomorrow'? Your post was at 0:19 my time on thursday; you surely do not mean 0:19 CEST friday, don't you?

edit: you probably do, as you said "about this time". But it'll be night in Germany too, then...

	12-02-2004 21:43									#4
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster What do you mean by 'tomorrow'? Your post was at 0:19 my time on thursday; you surely do not mean 0:19 CEST friday, don't you? edit: you probably do, as you said "about this time". But it'll be night in Germany too, then...

Yes, about 20-21 hours from then... so the evening.

	13-02-2004 11:41									#5
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We have the save. Going to be played tomorrow (possibly at 3pm EST timeslot).

Things that should be done this turn:

Military:

1) NM Ghengis should protect the 2 Workers in the SE (new barb camp down there).
2) Knight Togas should fortify to heal before going after that camp (currently 2/4 HP).
3) The Guard was finally promoted to elite! That being the case, we should send it home and send another Knight (Donegeal?) after the camp in the north to try and promote more Knights.
4) We should withdraw the NMs from HoD and Hispanica. One can go back to the center of the core, while the other should go further south (perhaps just north of Apolyton Prime?).
5) Galleys keep heading west...
6) BFI should move 3 to the coast to see the GCA Galley (if it's in range, of course).
7) AIS Assassin goes 7-7-7... we can possibly sink the GCA Galley next turn if it continues moving south.

Other Stuff:

8) We accepted El-Amarna and Boston from CGN this turn. Do we keep them? Do we raze them? Do we rush units in them? Do we send a message to GWT about this?
9) If we keep the cities then we should transfer our treasury to CFC/turn down the science slider to avoid gold being pillaged from our treasury in case GWT captures Boston on our turn.
10) Investigate GWT's fort city for 12 gold (being paid for by CGN).

11) Rename Area X and Iceburg to their new names!

	13-02-2004 12:16									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Are there any units outside of El-Amarna?

	13-02-2004 20:55									#7
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Are there any units outside of El-Amarna?

Yes, 2 MIs and 2 Pikes (or something like that) are 2 tiles away from El-Amarna on the hill.

	14-02-2004 01:07									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Turn will be played tonight at 9pm EST.

	14-02-2004 01:10									#9
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I see it now that i loaded up the save. It's possible that GWT has an Ansar on a road just N of that spot and could attack/capture it in one turn. The road does not appear on the map and it does not show up whee you right click it to show tile properties. So, it is not possible for GWT to attack El Amarna in one turn.

We should definately keep at least this city for one turn since it can't be attacked till the turn after next.

	14-02-2004 08:27									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

General

CGN sends Boston and El-Amarna, accepted; we accept
CFC sends 40g and world map, accepted; we accept

All builds accepted

Investigation of GWT fort city "Hi guys!" for 12g; screenshot posted below

Boston renamed "Hallo Leute!"
El-Amarna renamed to "Enjoy Your WarWeariness"
Area X renamed Dominus
Iceburg renamed Silk Road

Scouting

MI BFI (in the West) moves 3, looking for GCA Galley; sees nothing
MI Igor (in the South) moves 4-6-fort; sees nothing

Workers

Mark & Otto - Irrigated (done)
Lib & Slave Farb - moved 6-6-9
Screech & Sanchez - moved 6, will road next turn
Go3 - moved 2, will road next turn
LAN Party - moved 7-7-4, will start Mining next turn
Yo & Slave Anarchy - moved 1, will road next turn
Rush & rah - moved 8-9-9 (to AP 1), will Irrigate next turn
GP - started roading (2 turns to complete)
Squid & Horse - started clearing Jungle (6 turns to complete)
Monkee & CalcII - started clearing Jungle (6 turns to complete)
Larry - started clearing Jungle (12 turns to complete)

Settlers

Settler Poly A (going to site 30 - "Corner") - moved 1, will build city next turn
Settler Poly B (going to site 14) - moved 4-4-7
Settler HoD A (going to site 25 - "Fish")- moved 2-2-2
Settler Hisp A (going to site 12) - moved 1-1-1
Settler Nana A (going to site 16) - moved 1-1-1
New Settler from Karina (named him Karina A - going to site 13) - moved 4-4-4

City Builds

Apolyton - Sold off both Barracks and Granary - city will be gone in 11 turns...
Mingapulco - Library built, started building Settler
Karina - Settler built, started building Market.
Tripoli - Great Wall built, started building Market
Boston - Changed build to Warrior
El-Amarna - Changed build to Galley

Worker Force

Apolyton - starting WF 4-6-8-13-16 & 1 Sci. NC. Note: will have a shortage, don't worry about it, this is part of the plan.
Mingapulco - starting WF 1-5-6-7-8-12. Changed WF to 1-5-6-7-8-15.
Karina - (settler built) starting WF 4-11-17-18. Changed WF to 3-4-11-17.
Lux Invicta - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-3-5-7. Changed WF to 1-2-3-11.
Boston - starting WF 6. Changed WF to Sci.
El-Amarna - starting WF 4. Changed WF to Sci.

South Front

MI Hack moved 9 (out of new city to be built next turn)
BigKnight forted

West Front

Knight Vondrack moved 8; moving further inland for more mobility - will return to mountain if GCA Galley is seen again
Knight HTower moved 9; moving further inland for more mobility - will return to mountain if GCA Galley is seen again
Knight Donegeal moved to Hispanica 2-2; heading for barb camp up north
Knight E_T moved to Equilibrium and forted; will hunt barbs in the far west

Warrior not_panag skipped turn
MI MJW forted; covering coast tiles by Equil
Catapult Hurl forted; covering coast tiles by Equil
NM Zargon forted; covering coast tiles by Equil
Catapult Fling moved into to Equil 6 and forted; covering coast tiles by Equil
MI Vlad skipped turn

Core

The Guard (Knight) promoted to elite. Moved 3; returning home to give other Knights a chance at promotion
New NM in Apolyton named "Son of MrWIA" moved 2-1 and forted; guarding the center of the core
NM Arnelos moved to Ming 9; will join MrWIA
NM NYE moved 2-2-3; heading for the south to defend north of Apolyton

Knight Togas (2/4) forted to heal; will go after barb camp to the south once at full HP
NM Ghengis moved 1-2; protecting Workers from barbs

Galleys

AIS Seeker moved 7-7-7; full speed for the lake
AIS Hunter moved 4-4-4; full speed for the lake
AIS Assassin moved 7-7-7; heading for the GCA Galley from the CFC side; Should be able to attack it next turn!

Turn Summary

We send CFC WM and 685g accepted

Barbs near BFC

Weak to GWT
Average with CGN
Strong to CFC and GCA

Slider at 4.6.0 (40% science, 60% tax)
Treasury at 685 (0) gold, +9 (+49) GPT
Education in 8 turns

GNP 280 (3rd)
MFG 111 (3rd)
Prod 370 (3rd)

	14-02-2004 08:31									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Note that in the embassy screenshot GWT has 3 Pikes and 1 Worker in the city. They have 224 gold in their treasury, are missing 1 of each lux (giving them to GCA, obviously) and are running at 80% tax, 10% sci and 10% lux.

The 10% sci is quite interesting in that it suggests GWT is doing 40-turn research on something. If they were planning on turning up the slider later on then they wouldn't be wasting 10% sci on every turn. Maybe we have longer to race ahead of them tech-wise than first thought?

	14-02-2004 09:51									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

They could be banking gold waiting for us to swap techs around, and then going down the path that is cheapest. It is very strange if they are doing that, it is quite a gamble... unless it has not ocurred to them that we would deny each other techs to make their research as expensive as possible for as long as possible.

This is great if that is what they are doing. We could get to Military Tradition and Physics before we have to exchange any techs with CGN.

	14-02-2004 12:12									#13
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I agree that the 10% Science is a very good sign for us!

	14-02-2004 12:41									#14
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Maybe they only need 10% Science to finish the tech they've been working on.

About the Palace jump: I assume we're relocating to Apolyton Prime. As of this turn, it only has 3 population. The way I understand the formula, we'll need to join ~6 Workers (in 3 turns) to ensure everything works out.


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 14-02-2004 at 20:00

	14-02-2004 13:32									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Maybe they only 10% Science to finish the tech they've been working on. About the Palace jump: I assume we're relocating to Apolyton Prime. As of this turn, it only has 3 population. The way I understand the formula, we'll need to join ~6 Workers (in 3 turns) to ensure everything works out. Dominae

From my conversation last night with E_T in chat about the palace jump, that is his plan. We will be joining workers to AP just before we finish the last settler in Apolyton and complete the jump.

	14-02-2004 17:31									#16
	Palace Jump & worker adds Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

the Palace will jump in about 11 turns. In 3 turns, the city will be at 4 pop (with 6 food surplus). I'll be adding 1 worker to it then (or the turn after 6+7+7=20), so as to get it to pop 5 and 7 food surplus. This will get it to size 6 in 6 turns (from this turn). The tenitive target pop, for the move, is size 8 (and maybe 1 extra to be sure...).

At this point in time, I can't say when we will have it at size 7, because it will depend on getting peace with GCA, which will determine if we will need a specialist then or not. No matter what, at size 7, it will need a specialist. There won't be enough food surplus and time to get it to size 8 before the move, so we will need atleast 1 other worker added to the city, for the move.

With the REX going faster than I had even had thought, I had originally planned to have the city to size 7 (and close to going to the next size) before the move anyways, but without adding that one worker. That one worker gets me 4 turns cut off from the next growth cycle and closer to the size 7 target.

I'l post a more detailed thread about it soon.

MoI E_T

	14-02-2004 20:23									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Maybe they only need 10% Science to finish the tech they've been working on.

Isn't this more likely?

	14-02-2004 20:33									#18
	Savefile for this turn Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

save for 440AD, turn 160

E_T

	14-02-2004 20:37									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thankyou very much for posting the save file. Very hard for the masses to know whats going on otherwise

	15-02-2004 00:47									#20
	Re: Palace Jump & worker adds Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by E_T the Palace will jump in about 11 turns. In 3 turns, the city will be at 4 pop (with 6 food surplus). I'll be adding 1 worker to it then (or the turn after 6+7+7=20), so as to get it to pop 5 and 7 food surplus. This will get it to size 6 in 6 turns (from this turn). The tenitive target pop, for the move, is size 8 (and maybe 1 extra to be sure...). MoI E_T

Let's be REALLY sure. Size 9 sounds good to me.

	15-02-2004 00:57									#21
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We can always delay the abandonment of Poly if the jump goes sour.

	15-02-2004 01:04									#22
	Remove this text

You mean replay the turn?

	15-02-2004 01:39									#23
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The jump won't go sour. It's something that can easily be prepared for and calculated well in advance. It can also be simulated very easily.

ET has done this before and I'm very confident in his ability to do this.

--Togas

	15-02-2004 18:04									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Togas The jump won't go sour. It's something that can easily be prepared for and calculated well in advance. It can also be simulated very easily. ET has done this before and I'm very confident in his ability to do this. --Togas

Don't forget that we had Ruby_Maser doing the sim part of that move....

Madrid was more complex, because of the different things going on. This move is very straight forward, because of the timing and the terrain/Improvements available. It just worked out so much better.....

E_T

	17-02-2004 21:04									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Trip Boston renamed "Hallo Leute!" El-Amarna renamed to "Enjoy Your WarWeariness"

Why?? Aren't we unnecessarily being rude to them?

	17-02-2004 21:55									#26
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Why?? Aren't we unnecessarily being rude to them?

It was agreed to in chat. And yes, I suppose it's rude, I think that's the point. They've harmed us enough, we might as well get some shots back at them.

	17-02-2004 21:58									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think it's a way of making clear that what they did to us can go both ways.

I personally might have preferred "Two can play at THIS game" but whatever. The point got across, I think.

-Arrian

	17-02-2004 22:29									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Trip They've harmed us enough, we might as well get some shots back at them.

Harmed us in what way? As far as I can tell, GWT has done nothing unsportsmanlike in this game, at least not with respect to our team. Being rude to them as we pull a particularly game-defining move only proves that we're bad winners.

Apolyton's reputation and integrity are going down the toilet with every passing turn.

It's too bad that stuff like this happens in every DG (well, at least the ones I've been witness to)...


Dominae

	17-02-2004 22:32									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Harming us via allowing our enemy to live on (by gifting them cities where we can't reach them) so that our enemy may continue to hit us with War Weariness.

I don't think our reputation or integrity are going anywhere, Dom.

-Arrian

	17-02-2004 22:37									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Harmed us in what way? As far as I can tell, GWT has done nothing unsportsmanlike in this game,

remember the fortify exploit at the start of the CGN-GWT war?