05-02-2004 15:22									#1
	Current Diplo : RP GA and GoW/ND Tech deals Increase the size of your Attachments

Please check the GoW and RP logs for recent exchanges.

MZ's message is interesting - more weaseling perhaps - but intel nonetheless. ND are apparantly in the market for Physics...

Of course, RP can wait 20 turns for Chemistry easier than ND can wait 20 turns for Physics, but maybe we should approach ND direct.

	05-02-2004 19:31									#2
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Exchange with Aggie here

	05-02-2004 19:57									#3
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PM to UnO/ MZ re-affirming our postion here .

	05-02-2004 21:57									#4
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Sorry, I posted this in the Log thread:

Same ****, different deal, with GoW.

Hold firm, Cort!

-Arrian

	05-02-2004 23:58									#5
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quote: but maybe we should approach ND direct.

Um, YES! Isn't that the primary purpose of a no-trade clause? So we can sell the tech to ND ourselves?

-Arrian

	06-02-2004 00:28									#6
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Message sent to ND, copy in log.

quote: Hi Darekill, We will soon have Physics to trade - are you interested? If so, let us know what you could offer us for it. Regards, Cort Haus (PS - Whatever they say, GoW cannot trade this tech to you )

Last time we approached them about tech deals we got a rather cryptic response.

Non-trade clauses are as much about stopping other civs gaining hard-earned tech as profiting on the commodity. After all, we're not trying to sell it to Lego.

BTW, if anyone wants to take on ambassadorial responsibilities for any another civ, please step forward. We have an ambassador to Vox (Sleepy) but not to anyone else.

	06-02-2004 01:34									#7
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:guilt:

Heh, I could volunteer to be ambassador to Lego

Actually, if it would be more helpful, I can take over for ND from now on, if you would like.

-Arrian

	06-02-2004 02:51									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Actually, if it would be more helpful, I can take over for ND from now on, if you would like. -Arrian

Yes please

	06-02-2004 03:25									#9
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Ok, though with the time I've been putting into CoD, you may need to PM me (or just post in the CoD threads, since it's just you, me, mountain sage and frustrated poet anyway) to remind me to do something that needs doing.

Did that make any sense?

-Arrian

	06-02-2004 03:33									#10
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Yes, that makes sense

	06-02-2004 05:37									#11
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Arrian, what is the CoD?

	06-02-2004 14:04									#12
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CoD = Cake or Death - a team in PTWDGII

	06-02-2004 16:00									#13
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Vulture, fancy being ambassador to RP? Or GoW, if you prefer

	06-02-2004 16:18									#14
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I don't mind taking up ambassadorial duties, but I'm not always able to be around that regularly, and can't do chats. But as far as keeping in touch with exchanges of PMs, I can do that. Although having said that, GoW and RP are the two most painful teams to deal with in my experience...

	06-02-2004 21:48									#15
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Ok, I remember heaing that now, thanks.

	06-02-2004 22:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by vulture I don't mind taking up ambassadorial duties, but I'm not always able to be around that regularly, and can't do chats. But as far as keeping in touch with exchanges of PMs, I can do that. Although having said that, GoW and RP are the two most painful teams to deal with in my experience...

Thanks! Exchanging PM's should be enough. Chats have their value, but I find them difficult to schedule, and they can be dangerous for leaks. Next-time something comes up to sort out with RP we can see if you're available and feel like it.

	10-02-2004 02:32									#17
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DRAFT PM to ND:

quote: Darekill and Zayxus, I have recently been been appointed ambassador to your nation. GS is interested in technology trading with ND, but we have seen very little interest in this from you (I'm basing this on your team's response, or lack thereof, to Cort Haus' last couple of PMs regarding the same issue). We are currently researching Magnetism, and plan on Theory of Gravity after that. Do you have any interest in trading for either of those technologies? Further, our nations will be entering the Industrial Age quite soon. We are interested in setting up tech trades in advance for various IA techs. We are discussing doing this with GoW as well. Perhaps all 3 teams could come to an agreement? If you are interested in any of this, please let me know. Also, if you are *not* interested in any of this, please tell me so. I'm involved in several demogames, and I'd really rather not waste my time and yours trying to negotiate trades that will never happen. Thanks, -Arrian

	10-02-2004 03:08									#18
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Nice and blunt. They don't have Physics yet, though - maybe try that first.

	10-02-2004 03:11									#19
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- and there are two 'been's in the first sentence.

	10-02-2004 03:20									#20
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Ack, so there are. Redraft, with Physics included:

quote: Darekill and Zayxus, I have recently been appointed ambassador to your nation. GS is interested in technology trading with ND, but we have seen very little interest in this from you (I'm basing this on your team's response, or lack thereof, to Cort Haus' last couple of PMs regarding the same issue). We are currently researching Magnetism, and plan on Theory of Gravity after that. I'm also told you do not yet have Physics. Do you have any interest in trading for or purchasing any of those technologies? Further, our nations will be entering the Industrial Age quite soon. We are interested in setting up tech trades in advance for various IA techs. We are discussing doing this with GoW as well. Perhaps all 3 teams could come to an agreement? If you are interested in any of this, please let me know. Also, if you are *not* interested in any of this, please tell me so. I'm involved in several demogames, and I'd really rather not waste my time and yours trying to negotiate trades that will never happen. Thanks, -Arrian

Yeah, I was blunt on purpose. That seems to be ND's style. No point in being flowery, especially with a partial language barrier (In particular, Zayxus' English seems a bit limited. Still a helluva lot better than my German, of course ).

	10-02-2004 03:53									#21
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That's good, let's go for it. If we can get a tech Trojka going to lock Lego out, followed by a possible lux embargo, that would help our cause. We might even be able to trade for Industrialisation!

If there is to be a war between GoW & ND though, it might complicate things. I wonder if ND are getting tech off Lego in exchange for those lux, or whether they're trying to buy Lego off if they want to smack GoW?

	10-02-2004 05:28									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sent nudge to GoW over Ind-Era research here . Also mentioned possibility of a three-way tech arrangement with ND, as per Arrian's message to GoW.

	10-02-2004 14:54									#23
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reply from MZ (copy in Log) :

quote: Cort, sure thing, we are looking forward to that ourselves. I wonder if you guys would be interested in setting up a chat one of these days. We would very much like to discuss tech stuff and the pic you sent us of the Lego capital. We are having a chat with ND on thusday at 3 PM EST (which is -5 GMT I belive), if you want you can tag along so all three of us can talk. If not, we can set up another date for us 2 alone. If not, try and find me at the #GoW_CoFA room as I am usually online at night or at my MSN: raguil@hotmail.com

	12-02-2004 19:29									#24
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Is anyone going to be able to make the chat at 3pm today? I can't, since that's mid-afternoon and I'll be here at work (what a pisser I didn't get sick a day or two later, so I would be home today).

As we've all seen, ND is interesting in some of our techs, though they aren't real forthcoming about what they wish to pay for those techs.

I think we need to put together ideas along those lines:

1) Gold: how much are the techs worth, considering devaluation? Whatever the number we come up with, it should be a bit less than we charged GoW.

2) Tech: what do we want from them? Is there anything in the medieval era we still want, besides ToG, which is to be our next tech?

3) How do we work in GoW to this? GoW has both Astro and Physics, yes? We have little to no desire for MT. Do we have Metallurgy? Sorry, I forgot to check that when I opened the last turn.

It seems to me that if GoW and GS both have the techs in question the best thing would be for ND to pay us gold. Discounted, of course. By the way, does Lego have Physics yet? If not, depending on what ND is doing for research, we may want to hold off on giving it to them to keep Lego's costs up. The key is what ND is doing right now (are they researching? If so, what, and when will they finish?).

Once we get this era out of the way, here is a possibility for the IA:

Stage 1: GS researches Steam, GoW researches Medicine, ND researches Nationalism. We all trade and move to Stage2.

Stage 2: GS researches Electricity, ND researches Industrialization (or vice-versa, doesn't matter to me), GoW either funnels cash to the two of us or researches Sanitation or somesuch.

Stage 2 is a little fuzzy in my mind right now. I'm going on several basic assumptions, which like all assumptions, have the potential to make an ass of me:

1) GS has greater research power than GoW, possibly by a lot.
2) GS and ND are roughly comparable in research power, possibly with a small edge to GS for now.
3) That a 3-way research alliance is possible between these 3 civs, given that ND didn't have iron last turn and could be doing another mass upgrade which might mean another war on Bob.

I think we should explore something like the above plan with GoW & ND in chat if possible.

-Arrian

	12-02-2004 19:37									#25
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I'm intending to be at the chat. Though I can't post much now or look at the save till after work. The wildcard is their existing tech obligations to Lego.

	12-02-2004 19:50									#26
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do we know what room /pword it will be?

I think I can make it for an hour or so.

I like Arrian's thoughts on a future relationship

isolate those green bastards.

	12-02-2004 20:48									#27
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Some more stuff that just occurred to me:

GoW and ND don't really need to know just how fast we can research. Or, to put it another way, we don't really want them to know.

What we can say is this: we believe we can research as fast as either of them, possibly faster, but we're not interested in racing ahead anyway, since that means we're helping Lego draw off us. So our plan is to adjust our research rate to match what GoW and ND are able to do. If they want to go flat-out and can match us, fine. If not, we can slow down a bit... so long as it's not so slow that we risk Lego passing us.

That's what we can tell them. The reason I've suddenly gotten worried about telling them how fast we can research is not only because I'm worried about them, but moreso that I'm worried they will leak/tell Lego that info, and Lego will recognize a danger it may not currently recognize.

-Arrian

	12-02-2004 21:21									#28
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So we say that we're going slow, but actually put the foot down. The beaker-count will say otherwise for anyone who wants to check, but we can certainly leak our own intentions as matching their pace. As long as we get Medicine 13 turns into the IA, and when we finish Electricity, we're sorted. Imperial's on a hot pace for an early ToE, so we need to keep ahead of GoW.

I can't believe I just said that. 2 days ago I said that GoW would rather build 20 horsemen.

	13-02-2004 01:17									#29
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MZ's in the chat room now, I'm waiting on connection details ...

	13-02-2004 01:18									#30
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wait no more, I am there

connect to mirc apolyton and join:
#GoW_CoFA