06-02-2004 02:17									#1
	Turn 165, 490 AD Increase Your PM Length

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status Edited by Arnelos

- Republic
- Researching Education (1 turns)
- Treasury 812 gold, -27 gpt
- Running at 50/50/0 Sci/Tax/Lux

- Palace move on turn 171 (550AD), at begining of turn. Size 9 required in AP.

Ministry of the Interior

Economy:
Apolyton - building settler (turn 3 of 3 sched)
Mingapulco - building Aquaduct (turn 3 of ??TBD?? sched).
Chiquita - building settler (turn 3 of 5 sched).
Bananatopia - building Courthouse (turn 4 of 9 sched).
Incensity - building Courthouse (turn 5 of 9 sched).
Dominus - building Granary (turn 21 of 23 sched).
Tripoli - building Marketplace (turn 6 of 10 sched).
Equilibrium - building settler (turn 12 of 18 sched - to be abandoned).
Hispanica - building Courthouse (turn 7 of 9 sched).
Power of Victory - building Library (turn 7 of ??TBD?? sched).
Karina - building Marketplace (turn 6 of 13 sched).
Lux Invicta - building Settler (turn 2 of 7 sched).
Big Bend - building Settler (turn 5 of 6 sched).
BigFurryCity - Worker built, start building Aquaduct (turn 1 of 14 sched).
Apolyton Prime - building Granary (turn 19 of 25 sched). Change build to Marketplace (turn 19 of 29 sched).
Del Monte - building Library (turn 4 of 29 sched).
Heart of Darkness - building Library (turn 9 of 13 sched).
Elucidium Novem - building Settler (turn 7 of 9 sched).
Silk Road - building Harbor (turn 3 of ??TBD?? sched).
Arcadia - building Granary (turn 12 of ??TBD?? sched).
Zenophobia - Aquaduct (turn 2 of ??TBD?? sched).
Solace - building Worker (turn 7 of 10 sched).
Down Under - building Harbor (turn 4 of ??TBD?? sched).
Lumentis Bananais - building Library (turn 3 of ??TBD?? sched).
Antlergrad - building Courthouse (turn 2 of ??TBD?? sched).
Area X - building Harbor (turn 2 of ??TBD?? sched).


Worker Force:

Apolyton - starting WF 6-8-13-14. NC.
Lakeveiw - (grows this turn) starting WF 5-13-??14??. Change WF to 5-6-13.
Mingapulco - starting WF 6-7-9-15. Change WF to 3-7-9-11 (working Game).
Chiquita - starting WF 1-5-6-8-13. NC.
Bananatopia - (grows this turn) starting WF 2-??13??-16-18-19 (working Game). Change WF to 2-3-4-13-16.
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-14-17. NC.
Dominus - starting WF 1-2-6-8. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-9-17-18-19. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF 3-6. NC.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-5-13-20. NC.
Power of Victory - (grows this turn) starting WF 2-3-4-??5??. Change WF to 2-3-4-5.
Karina - starting WF 3-11-17-18. Change WF to 11-13-17-18.
LuxInvicta - starting WF 1-11-14. Change WF to 1-5-14.
Big Bend - starting WF 1-3-4-10. NC.
BigFurryCity - (Worker built) starting WF ??5-6-7-8-20??. Change WF to 5-6-7-8-20.
Apolyton Prime - starting WF 2-3-6-7-17. NC.
Del Monte - starting WF 11. NC.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-4-5-12-13. NC.
Elucidium Novem - starting WF 2-3-4-8. NC.
Silk Road - starting WF 19. NC.
Arcadia - starting WF 7-16. Change WF to 6-7.
Zenophobia - starting WF 2-8. NC.
Solace - starting WF 8. NC.
Down Under - starting WF 2. Change WF to 10.
Lumentis Bananais - starting WF 13. NC.
Antlergrad - starting WF 11. NC.
Area X - starting WF 3. NC.


Workers:
Yo & Slave Anarchy - road (done).
Go3 - road (done).
Frodo & Out of Darkness - road (done).
Empress - road (2 turns to complete).
rah - road (3 turns to complete).
Rush - road (3 turns to complete).
LAN Party - Mine (2 turns to complete).
Sanchez & Screech - move 8-7, will road next turn.
Lib & Slave Farb - move 4 (to Iron Mountain), will road next turn.
Phobic - irrigation done, worker frozen.
Monkee & CalcII - tile cleared, workers frozen.
Squid & Horse - tile cleared, workers frozen.
Silky - 2 turns left to road.
Mark & Otto - 3 turns left to clear.
Spike & Moosefart - 3 turns left to clear.
Curly - 3 turns left to mine.
Larry - 7 turns left to clear.
New Worker from BFC (name him BigFurryWorker) - move 2 and Irrigate (2 turns to complete).

Settlers:

See General Overall City Placement Plan #1 for locations
Also, see
Phase 2: End of the War to when the FP is built for the Phase 2 sites
Phase 3: from FP to Palace move for the Phase 3 sites


Settler BBA (at site 22) - build city, set built to Harbor and WF to next turn.
Settler HispA (going to site 12) - move 8. Will build city next turn. Send ZargonX reborn with him for escort against Barbs.
Settler NanaB (going to site 5) - move 2. Also needs an Escort.
Settler MingA - (going to site 18) - move 2-3-3. Will build city next turn.
Settler PolyA - (going to site 3) - move 2. Might also need an escort.
Settler LuxA - (going to site 6) - move 3-3-6.



Ministry of War

*Link to MOW thread*

Unit Roster

- Note to MoW/Consuls, will need an escort for the Hisp/Karina Settlers, once they leave the road network to the NW sites.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

*Link to FAM thread*

Last edited by Arnelos on 17-03-2004 at 11:10

	16-03-2004 10:48									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Urgent Business for This Turn

Economic:

New Technology

Military:

to be edited by the Consuls

Diplomatic:

Send CGN 600g accepted.
CGN will repay us for this loan in 10 turns by gifting us 30gpt.
CGN has agreed to pay with workers if for some reason they cannot repay the full loan.

Other: Edit by Arnelos

Some have raised the question of how GWT won the battle at Agincourt with Ansar Warriors alone. BigFree calculated the odds of such a GWT victory this turn at I think just under 10%. Personally, I'm inclined to think that GWT would not be the type of team to sink to that level, however.

Link to turn 164 report

Last edited by Arnelos on 17-03-2004 at 07:03

	17-03-2004 01:36									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Orders are finished

* E_T is almost ready for bed

MoI E_T

	17-03-2004 10:36									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Turn 165 - 490 A.D. Turn Report

Attendance
Arnelos
Master Zen (in and out)
Togas (in and out)
Sharpe (left early)
Aidun (left early)
BigFree (in and out)
E_T (arrived late, left early)
conmcb25 (arrived late)
WhiteBandit (arrived late)
Rhotaerill (arrived late)

Foreign Affairs

40 Gold and WM received from CFC (accepted)
Sent WM (accepted) to CFC
Sent 600 Gold (accepted) to CGN

Christening Units

New Worker out of BFC named BigFurryWorker

Reconnaisance and Barb Hunting Forces

MI BFI (West) moves 8; heading back toward the silk colony (will go West next turn)
MI Igor (South) moves 4-6 and fortifies; sees nothing
Sir Togas (East) moves 8; heading east along coast
Sir donegeal (North) fortifies; healing

Naval Forces

AIS Assassin (south of Equil.) moves 8-8-8; moving to picket position off of external coast
AIS Seeker (SE of EQ) moves 7-7-8 into EQ; moving to picket position off of external coast

Workers

Yo & Slave Anarchy (at Zen-6) start road (done)
Dejon, EVC, & MrWIA (at AP-7-8) start road (done)
Frodo & Out of Darkness (at Dominus-7-7) start road (done)
Empress (at EN-3-2) starts road
rah (at AP-8) starts road
Rush (at Solace-8) starts road
LAN, Gits, & Dan (at Del Monte-1) start mine
Sanchez & Screech (at Lakeview-1) move 8-7
Lib & Slave Farb (at HoD-1) move 4
BigFurryWorker (out of BFC) moves 2 and starts irrigation

Settlers

Settler BBA founds Heroes' Summit
Settler HispA (north of EQ) moves 8
Settler NanaB (south of Tripoli) moves 2
Settler MingA (near Dominus) moves 2-2-6
Settler PolyA (near BB) moves 2
Settler LuxA (near BB) moves 3-3-6

Western Defense Forces

Sir E_T moves 8; moving back toward EQ
MI Vlad Antlerkov skips turn; guarding silk colony (will go west next turn)
NM NYE moves 4 and fortifies in the fortress; starting to stockpile slowmovers here
MI MJW moves 8-4 and fortifies in the fortress; starting to stockpile slowmovers here
NM ZargonX Reborn moves 2; moving toward fortres... this will be explained in the issues for next turn

Southern Defense Forces

MI Bananatopia fortifies; will guard this area SE of AP
MI Hack moves 2-6 and fortifies; will guard in the area of Area X and Arcadia

Core Defense Forces

Warrior WWNN moves 8-8-8; heading to Karina to disband
Warrior not_panag moves 3-6-3; heading to Karina to disband
Sir Vondrack moves 9-9-8-8-8-8
NM Arnelos skips turn; staying to keep fog cleared for Settler Poly A
NM Ghengis moves 6; moving east this turn, will catch up with Settler Lux A when it moves 9 to the hill next turn

WF Placements

Lakeview set to 5-6-13
Mingapulco set to 3-7-9-11
Bananatopia set to 2-3-4-13-16
Power of Victory set to 2-3-4-5
Karina set to 11-13-17-18
Lux Invicta set to 1-5-14
BigFurryCity set to 5-6-7-8-20
Arcadia set to 6-7
Down Under set to 10
Heroes' Summit set to 6

Economy

Heroes' Summit starts Harbor
Zenophobia starts Aqueduct
BigFurryCity starts Aqueduct

Demographics

Approval Rating: 78% (2nd)
Population: 2491000 (3rd)
GNP: 312 million (3rd)
Mfg. Goods: 111 megatons (3rd)
Land Area: 31300 square miles (3rd)
Literacy: 12% (2nd)
Disease: 4% (4th)
Pollution: 0 tons (1st)
Life Expectancy: 25 years (4th)
Family Size: 1 children (1st)
Military Service: 7 years (3rd)
Annual Income: 6 per capita (2nd)
Productivity: 399 (3rd)

Top 5 Cities
1. Parthemuende (GWT) - Pop 12 (Pyramids, Colossus)
2. Aarhus (CGN*) - Pop 12
3. Sevenoaks (CGN) - Pop 11
4. Colombus (CGN) - Pop 8
3. Webringen (GWT*) - Pop 12 <---- LOSING POPULATION

Miscellaneous and End Turn

Slider: 50/50/0 (Tax/Research/Lux)
Treasury: 821 Gold
Net Income: -27 GPT
Research: Education (1 Turn)
Strong to GCA
Average to CGN
Strong to CFC
Weak to GWT
There are no barbarian tribes near our cities

Turn saved and sent at 12:18 a.m. EST on Wednesday, March 17 (0518 GMT on Wednesday, March 17) to:

msdg@civfanatics.net
intersitepbem@mongoose201.com

Save resent ~5 minutes later to donnyzoi@sbcglobal.net (CFC is apparently having e-mail issues with their distribution list).

----------------------

NOTE: Every time I have tried to upload images, I get a SQL error from Apolyton and a broken link for an image.

So no screenshots until Apolyton will let me upload them. Is anyone else running into this problem? I suppose that it's entirely possible that I'm out of upload space and this is Apolyton's buggy way of letting me know.

	21-03-2004 04:42									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

BREAKING NEWS: Miccofl is reporting to me that they did NOT receive the 600g payment!!!!!!!!!!



perhaps it is a bug, this could be catastrophic.

	21-03-2004 05:03									#6
	Got spare money?

Well, we need to get to the bottom of this then.

Can we get mongoose to look at the save?

Is Arnelos sure he sent it?

	21-03-2004 05:40									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

I am almost positively sure Arnelos did not forget to send it (I'm the forgetful Consul, remember? )

If you recall, a similar bug happened in the PTWDG not so long ago in a payment of gold from ND to GoW which never made it.

However, back then there was no way around the bug, we just had to wait until next turn to get the payment. If so, then there probably isn't a way out of this one even by replaying.

We should contact Mongoose to get this turn replayed. If the bug shows up again, the only solution I see is to send the 600g to CFC then have CFC send 600g to CGN. Perhaps it might work.

	21-03-2004 05:54									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Whatever it takes. I say CGN either gets the 600 gold as was planned and exectued by us, or we hold the turn until mongoose says that the turn must be replayed.

BTW, this game now officially sucks for me.

	21-03-2004 05:56									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by BigFree BTW, this game now officially sucks for me.

to be honest, same here.

But we've put in so much effort it's gotta be worth playing till the end.

	21-03-2004 07:19									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by BigFree Is Arnelos sure he sent it?

I am 100% certain that I offered 600 gold to CGN (the Sultan Oman's leaderhead) and hit ACCEPT and sent it.

I even deducted 600 gold from our treasury for setting up the thread for the next turn because I knew I'd sent it.

	21-03-2004 08:23									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It should only take MOngoose a few minutes to test if its worth replaying.

Send him our save.
Let him play it through just ending everyones turn.
And see if the money turns up.

He can try a couple of combinations, like going through CFC.

	21-03-2004 15:51									#12
	Remove this text

I'm sure you did offer it as well Arnelos; I'm not sure why I asked.

H-E is right, it should be pretty straight forward for mongoose to figure this out. But what happens if he is not able to reproduce this bug? He can say that we may have simply forgotten to do this even though we planned to do it. And thus, if he feels we just "forgot" then he can say that's tough and the game continues without a replay. What do we do then if that happens?

On a seperate but related note....

It's sort of expected that we are finding bugs in this PBEM and not many others. It's not to say that they don't exist in others or that they do but this game is under much more scrutiny than other games thus the microscope each team uses brings these bugs to the surface.

There's also one other possibility in that Lucky, or someone else, has edited the save in some way and has introduced some bugs into the game through that action.

MP play, especailly PBEM, is not all that important to Firaxis to fix/de-bug as the majority of players don't even use that feature to begin with and the few that do will never even stumble accross the bugs we have found in this game because they won't put as much effort into it.

	21-03-2004 22:09									#13
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by BigFree It's sort of expected that we are finding bugs in this PBEM and not many others. It's not to say that they don't exist in others or that they do but this game is under much more scrutiny than other games thus the microscope each team uses brings these bugs to the surface. There's also one other possibility in that Lucky, or someone else, has edited the save in some way and has introduced some bugs into the game through that action.

Considering that this same bug happened in the PTWDG where Lucky is - fortunately - absent, I would put up cheating as my lowest consideration of probable causes to this problem. Plus, one thing is cheating to alter the RNG, another thing entirely is to "introduce" bugs with the risk of screwing up the game, and which - coincidentally - hamper precisely the team you want to hamper.

	22-03-2004 06:53									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Mongoose asked me to replay the save and send. I have done so. I switched the order in which I did the diplomatic stuff, since I have a sneaking suspicion that that might be the reason for the bug. If it works, I'll post about how to avoid the bug. If not, we're back to square one.

	25-03-2004 18:52									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My New Sim (with the changed corruption Model) is so far the same as real save in the respects of GNP/Prod/Prod/GPT.

SIM EOT Economic Power Values:
Sci Power = 220 BPT (up 2 from last turn)
Cash Power = 213 GPT (up 2 from last turn)
121 Beakers towards Education. (up 2 from last turn)

I'll try, in a few days, to edit this with the real save values for this.

* E_T hopes that some industrius member can do this for him...

Also, with this turn, we have 29 cities (and still more to come).

MoI E_T