10-02-2004 03:21									#61
	Tired of ads?

If CGN has their Knights at Boston 2-1, and the rest of their army at Boston 2, then they can inflict a crushing defeat on GWT's Ansar force. GWT's Ansar are either stuck where they are, or they have to risk attacking one of CGN's stacks. They will then have to endure a counter-assault en masse.

	10-02-2004 03:25									#62
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Trip What 4-turn route? I see 2 ways that GWT can get to Agincourt in 3 turns, even going through jungle. CGN cannot get their Knights to a place where they can hit the Ansar first. Due to their cutting of the roads, GWT will always be able to hit the CGN Knight stack first unless they teleport home. What purpose is there in trying to attack the fort city? CGN has 15 MIs and 13 Knights left in Boston. GWT has at least 20 Pikes. Even if they won every battle, what positive effect would attacking the fort have instead of teleporting home?

Ah yes 3 turns it is, my mistake.

I wasn't suggesting they attack the fort city I was suggesting they keep the units there so that when GWT move their units out of the fort city and adjacent to Boston they can attack them there. Attacking the GWT stack with MI (probably going to need those knights at full strength) would have the positive effect of GWT not having as many pikes to defend their stack and so making it possible to attack them and kill some of their offensive units. CGN have to take care of that stack sometime.
Not that it really matters, though waiting a turn to teleport would indeed be a silly thing to do.

	10-02-2004 03:27									#63
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

GWT may not bring any units outside of their fort city. They can keep CGN pinned where they are using their fast Ansar to skirt around and continue outflanking CGN.

The only way I can see them saving the front without teleporting is doing what I just suggested... it will cost them units and it will cost them Boston, but it will save the cohesion of their front line.

	10-02-2004 03:28									#64
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And get CGN to declare war on GCA to stop the investigations.

	10-02-2004 03:35									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Trip The only way I can see them saving the front without teleporting is doing what I just suggested... it will cost them units and it will cost them Boston, but it will save the cohesion of their front line.

I dunno if they put their knights at 2,1 then the Ansars can attack them and retreat to the jungle out of reach of the other stack.

What HE suggested is good though, that would work well.

	10-02-2004 03:37									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think GWT would have to expose it's Ansars to a CGN attack from Boston in order to get to Agincourt in 3 turns. If GWT takes the 'safe' route it makes it 4 turns till they can attack it. I really doubt they will leave those guys in the open like that. I really doubt they would march them all the way down to Agincourt unescorted. They have no idea what CGN may have on the roads down there.

	10-02-2004 03:37									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hmm, if CGN moves their units south normally, GWT can have a field day with CGN's slowmovers at Boston2. Any Ansars from their fort town (or up to 2 tiles north of there) can hit those slowmovers. 16 Ansars + ?? Ansars from the north = a lot of dead CGN pikes. Possibly even a bunch of dead med infs.

So perhaps the best play is to move the knights 22 , AND do the unit warp, moving their slowmovers back to safety. That way the worst that happens next turn is 16 Ansars attack CGN's knights on a forest tile, which is almost an even fight.

How many turns to march slowmovers from the capital to Agincourt?

-Arrian

edit: oh, duh, H_E already proposed this. I misread his plan the first time and thought I was proposing an alternative.

So, um, I agree!

2nd edit: nevermind that bit about Boston being on a hill or not. It matters not, since Ansars from GWT's city could move 223, going right around such a hill, and still nail units sitting on Boston2.

Last edited by Arrian on 10-02-2004 at 03:44

	10-02-2004 03:38									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yep - I like my idea better.

Problem is...how many more ansars does GWT have ?

	10-02-2004 03:41									#69
	Got spare money?

Also, would GWT ever attack Agincourt and leave it Ansars just outside the city? No, They would at least want them to be able to back off to one tile away. That's why I left out the route 9-9-8 Agincourt to 9-9. If they did that the Ansars would end their attack at 9 of Agincourt.

	10-02-2004 03:45									#70
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

BF I think you're reading it the same way I did before, however if the Ansars go E,S then SE,S (onto the forest rather than the GL) then S,W 3 turns

	10-02-2004 03:47									#71
	Tired of ads?

Man, the more I look at the map, the worse this looks. Anybody wanna bet GWT flanks CGN again at Agincourt (busting through the chokepoint at Agincourt 233/2233)?

As a matter of fact, does anybody else think CGN needs a city (with walls and barracks) at Agincourt 233?

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 03:49									#72
	Got spare money?

Boston 2,1 - Ansars in GWT Fort can also attack the knights
Boston 2,2 - Only the 16 ansars can get them

	10-02-2004 03:52									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Can we put together a list of suggestions for CGN?

It may be hard to offer them without insulting CGN, but I think we need to try. My thoughts:

1) As above, move knights22, leave slowmovers in Boston, gift us Boston.

2) Get culture in Agincourt ASAP!!! And boost its pop to size7 or above, or at the very least rush walls!

3) Declare war on GCA to prevent investigations.

4) Build a city at Ag233, and defend that chokepoint to prevent another flanking manuever.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 03:52									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Boston 2,1 - Ansars in GWT Fort can also attack the knights Boston 2,2 - Only the 16 ansars can get them

Yep, Boston 21 is a no-go.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 03:55									#75
	Got spare money?

More Information:

Right now CGN has 13 Knights left in Boston. They have 2 on a Galley to the SW, and 3 pillaging roads back to Agincourt. They also have the remainder of their army (29 Pikes, 15 MIs, Settler, maybe a couple Cats) in Boston.

Agincourt is 15 tiles away from Arhus, their capital. Meaning CGN can get Knights to the city in 3 turns with 3 moves left (on road) and get slowmovers there in 5 turns with 0 moves left. Keep in mind CGN cannot begin moving until NEXT turn, which means you have to add 1 turn to each of those times. GWT is 3 turns away from Agincourt with their Ansar. CGN is 4 turns away with their Knights.

17 Ansar (1 is also at Boston 1-1 after having scouted around Boston, seeing that CGN had no roads there) against 13 Knights is not a good mix.

CGN finished a Library in Agincourt this turn. This means its culture expands 4 turns from now. They also added 2 Workers to it this turn, so it's now at size 7.

At my suggestion, CGN has a Settler being built in Saxton to build a new city at Waterloo 8-9. This would seal off both chokepoints with cities.

	10-02-2004 03:57									#76
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Although I like my plan, I am still concerned about where the other GWT ansars are hiding.

They must be in the fort city.
How many do they have? They know CGN's numbers because of GCA investigations. So surely they brought enough ansars to kill Boston.

Leaving Boston 1 extra turn to stop the 16 ansars sounds great, but boston may be destroyed and/or CGN's units heavily damaged on GWT's turn.

	10-02-2004 03:58									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by OPD BF I think you're reading it the same way I did before, however if the Ansars go E,S then SE,S (onto the forest rather than the GL) then S,W 3 turns

Yes, they can, but I added in another post after that first that explained why I think GWT will not take that route. GWT does not know what CGN has available. Will they chance that a counter attack against their Ansars can come out of Agincourt? I mean they are leaving themselves open for a counter by every unit that CGN has if they leave those Ansars there. Why would GWT leave that to chance?

	10-02-2004 04:08									#78
	Increase Your PM Length

BF: if GWT has GCA investigating CGN cities, they will see that CGN doesn't have hardly any units in Agincourt.

Once GWT captures Agincourt, they can easily pillage roads to the west of the city to prevent CGN Knights from being able to counter-attack. Once the first chokepoint is captured, GWT can pillage enough roads to have full security until their slowmovers catch up. Once GWT has access to the main CGN landmass this war will get ugly fast.

	10-02-2004 04:14									#79
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Although I like my plan, I am still concerned about where the other GWT ansars are hiding. They must be in the fort city. How many do they have? They know CGN's numbers because of GCA investigations. So surely they brought enough ansars to kill Boston. Leaving Boston 1 extra turn to stop the 16 ansars sounds great, but boston may be destroyed and/or CGN's units heavily damaged on GWT's turn.

We can investigate the city for 39 gold and find out.

	10-02-2004 04:18									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

BF I dunno I think the ansars would be able to retreat from the red cross as moving out of the forest would only cost them 1 MP. Although the problem with not stopping the Ansars is that they will simply over run Agincourt and go on through the rest of CGN land.

quote: Originally posted by Trip 17 Ansar (1 is also at Boston 1-1 after having scouted around Boston, seeing that CGN had no roads there) against 13 Knights is not a good mix.

Yeah but all surviving ansars would be killed the next turn by MI's. Even if GWT did manage to kill all 13 knights they'd then loose at least that many ansars to CGN MI. The kill ratio would very much in favour of CGN if the knights go 2,2. Adding the 2 that have been pillaging would make the odds even better... Then the survivors can pillage. They really should do it. They're in the **** if they don't and will either get good kills or stop GWT in their tracks if they do.

edit the risk of GWT having a load more ansars avaliable to storm Boston is grave, but you've gotta take the risks when you're in the ****, if GWT do have serious ansar reinforcements CGN are too far up the creek to have a chance anyway.

	10-02-2004 04:28									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Trip We can investigate the city for 39 gold and find out.

If GWT are smart, they will leave their ansars 1 tile north of their fort.

And ...

We need to decide on accepting the Boston before our chance to investigate GWT fort....or do we ?

	10-02-2004 04:35									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Things are not looking good.

	10-02-2004 04:42									#83
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think BF is right about the path ND will take.

And if they follow ND/GoW's tactics, they will be quite happy to gamble those 16 ansars on wreaking havok behind CGN's lines. They will attack Arincourt.

So I have convinced myself, that my own plan is probably CGN's best option.
Move their knight 2,2 of boston.

If the 16 ansars join in on a joint attack against boston. CGN's knights will mop them up afterwards.

If the 16 ansars ignore the knights and take BF's route. Then CGN's knights can take them. Leaving only a few left.

If the 16 ansars attack the knights. CGN's slow movers will mop them up on the next turn from Boston.

Then we do the warp.


That will stop those 16 ansars.

	10-02-2004 04:51									#84
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel If the 16 ansars attack the knights. CGN's slow movers will mop them up on the next turn from Boston.

Ansar Warriors have movement left after entering a Forest tile. I'm not seeing how the slow movers from Boston can touch the Ansars. Even if they try, GWT still has the option of striking Boston with slow movers of their own. I think a war of attrition favors GWT, personally (when is Leo's due, anyway?).


Dominae

	10-02-2004 04:58									#85
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Ansar Warriors have movement left after entering a Forest tile. I'm not seeing how the slow movers from Boston can touch the Ansars. Even if they try, GWT still has the option of striking Boston with slow movers of their own.Dominae

If CGN move their knights 2,2 of Boston.
GWT will have to move their ansars 6,6,2 to attack them.

After the attack, GWT's ansars will be left at Boston 2.

CGN's can attack and kill the ansars from Boston with MI.
(Assuming Boston is still around and has units in it)

Then they gift us Boston, and all the slow mover units are warped back to their capital
The leftover knights will make their own way to arincourt and pillage more roads.

	10-02-2004 05:18									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Sorry, I forgot that CGN is currently playing their turn.

	10-02-2004 05:24									#87
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree that Boston 2-2 is the best move now. Along with declaring war on GCA. Wait to gift the city to us till the next turn.

	10-02-2004 07:32									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by BigFree I agree that Boston 2-2 is the best move now. Along with declaring war on GCA. Wait to gift the city to us till the next turn.

We're in chat with CGN right now. They are declaring war on GCA, at least.

	10-02-2004 10:25									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

From the Correspondence thread

quote: Trip> "the mob" struck down moving the Knights 2-2, and struck down teleporting Trip> currently they favor moving the Knights 2-3

{edit - Never mind}

	10-02-2004 12:45									#90
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Discussion within CGN is ongoing, nothing is decided as of yet...