06-02-2004 05:14									#1
	Battle of the Ages Got spare money?

GWT's stack of doom is now at Boston 7-7 (NC 9-9). It currently has 70 units, including 16 Ansar.

CGN cannot hold the line. They are considering what to do. I suggested that they withdraw, burning the cities and all the roads all of the way back to Agincourt. They get Gunpowder in 4 turns. It will take 8 turns before GWT can attack Agincourt. By then CGN could have quite a few Muskets upgraded and ready to hold them off.

However, one thing Miccofl has said in chat:
We [are] considering attacking and donating the cities after our units are beat up

I warned him that this would prevent them from pillaging as many roads, and they will lose the cities either way.

I am in the embassy room as they are discussing the turn now.

	06-02-2004 05:29									#2
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Also, forgot to mention it.

GCA and CGN now have contact in-game.

GCA has also bought an embassy with them...

	06-02-2004 05:33									#3
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CGN's count: (@miccofl) The count on the stack is 16 Ansar, 24 MI, 16 Pikes, 1 Horse (elite), 10 Cats, 3 Workers and 1 Settler

GWT's count: (@Trip) CGN has ~20 Pikes, 15 MI and 18 Knights.

It close to a standoff IMO.

	06-02-2004 05:38									#4
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CGN is researching Gunpowder in 4 turns. If they retreat from NC and Boston and pillage the roads behind them then it will take GWT 8 turns to be able to attack Agincourt. In that time, they'll be able to connect Saltpeter, build up gold and upgrade a bunch of Pikes to Muskets.

Also, we can give them a loan in order to upgrade more. CGN can break GWT with a bunch of Muskets.

	06-02-2004 05:44									#5
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If they even have Saltpeter....

	06-02-2004 05:50									#6
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree If they even have Saltpeter....

I think the odds are with them.

	06-02-2004 07:45									#7
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Well at least that SOD almost rules out any chance that GWT is planning an end-around with galleys and landing behind CGN's lines like GS did to Vox.

	06-02-2004 07:47									#8
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BTW, I agree with your analysis Trip. Give them a bit of time to upgrade the units and they're much better off. The casualties on both sides should still be enormous though. Well, assuming GWT doesn't start using their vassal's tactics that is.

	06-02-2004 08:05									#9
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CGN abandoned one city and will hold out in Boston. They are going to pillage some roads to prevent GWT from using them.

CGN now has 29 Pikes in Boston. Add to that the previously mentioned Knights and MI's and it's more than enough to hold out till GP IMO

	06-02-2004 09:05									#10
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GCA will perform espionage on that city and GWT may avoid it. If they don't, however, this will be one formidable battle! 29 Pikes ... wow.

--Togas

	06-02-2004 09:06									#11
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btw, I'm fine with the plan to load CGN gold to upgrade. Perhaps CGN can repay us with a gpt payment in the amount of the loan?

--Togas

	06-02-2004 09:40									#12
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CGN should declare war on GCA to stop the investigations.

Or not, and use it in their favour....
Keep their units out of the cities, and move them in place at the last minute.

	06-02-2004 12:01									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel CGN should declare war on GCA to stop the investigations.

Keeping in mind that it will be a perpetual war if they do so


My question has to be, will this game ever see a real battle again? Please someone attack a real city. Enough of the luxing.

	06-02-2004 14:45									#14
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I am thinking GWT has more Ansars just out of sight from CGN.

16 aint many.

	06-02-2004 15:24									#15
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GWT are going to own them so bad, CGN didn't even disconnect their iron? GWT have had the GA boost.

Their going to break through and take CGN out of the game. They wouldn't make a move to do so if they weren't capable of it. I know Bongo and I know he's going to pull this off.

So are we going to offer CGN sanctuary should the worst come to the worst?

	06-02-2004 16:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I am thinking GWT has more Ansars just out of sight from CGN. 16 aint many.

I agree. Unless those pikemen get upgraded to muskets, CGN is screwed.

	06-02-2004 16:37									#17
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well how many pikes will they even be able to upgrade?

CGN pinning all their hopes on getting GP will be the death of them.

GP is not definately going to save them, even if CGN were to upgrade all 29 of those pikes before an attack, GWT will be destroying any walls with those cats and then it'll just be a case of 4 attack vs 5 defence with GWT having retreat and a big numbers advantage.

CGN need to sort their **** out and fast, pulling everything back to asigncourt and raising the city to 7/8 then getting 29 muskets in there could save them. They'll also need some cats should GWT try and ping the city down to 6 before attacking.

	06-02-2004 17:54									#18
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When GoW & ND developed plans against RP, I am quite sure ND was not shy about taking a few risks and also quite happy to conduct a naval insertion.
(To take out RP's iron)

If they dont have Ansars in or close to that stack... then they are on galleys, ready to be shipped south.

	06-02-2004 18:04									#19
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quote: Originally posted by OPD GWT are going to own them so bad, CGN didn't even disconnect their iron? GWT have had the GA boost. Their going to break through and take CGN out of the game. They wouldn't make a move to do so if they weren't capable of it. I know Bongo and I know he's going to pull this off. So are we going to offer CGN sanctuary should the worst come to the worst?

We tried to warn them a long time ago. We have seen this coming for some time now.

So, Time and luck will tell, but I think that this is just the first of the GWT forces to show up onto the seen. I would NOT put it past them to have more ready to land on their NW shores. I figure around 4 turns from now is when we will see it happen.

And besides, we will likely see GCA enter into this war, just to trigger their own GA.

E_T

	06-02-2004 20:47									#20
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quote: CGN now has 29 Pikes in Boston.

Plus their 15 MI and 18 knights.

Did we ever confirm that CGN doesn't have catapults??

Against 16 Ansars, 24 MIs, 1 horse with 16 pikes and 10 cats, plus whatever is out there in the Fog.

If GWT really does roll that stack up next to Boston, CGN's Knights can chew through GWT's pikemen (or most of the way through, if the RNG goes against them they will need some of their MI) and then their MI can eat the GWT MI for lunch. The problem is that they will be unable to hit any Ansars. Let's assume that CGN's 33 attack units manage to kill 25 GWT units (Let's say 14 pikes with 2 left horribly mangled, and 10 MI). That leaves GWT with 16 Ansars, 14MI, and 1 elite horseman
plus the 10 cats to hit Boston with. Against 29 pikes plus some wounded knights and MI. The walls will go down to the cats, and a few hps will be taken off the pikes. Boston would hold against the GWT force described above.

HOWEVER, if GWT has another wave of Ansars 1 tile back, Boston will fall and CGN will be naked.

I know, I know, I didn't use a combat calculator, so I'm doing a LOT of guesswork, but my gut tells me they need to pull back, burn the roads, and get Agincourt ready for siege (get it to size7, get muskets, bring up any catapults they have or can build quickly).

I would also suggest they rush galleys to hang out on both sides of the land GWT is marching down, so they can see what's going on.

Despite my general feeling that CGN *should* be the favorite here, I just have this bad feeling that GWT is going to tear them to pieces.

-Arrian

	06-02-2004 21:44									#21
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Let GWT rush into the fray- by razing and pillaging roads GWT might be tempted to rush head on before further reinforcements arrive, or perhaps even divert whatever they've commited for and amphibious assault towards the frontline.
Make GWT feel they have a decisive advantage (which we're not quite sure they have, although you could say the scale is tilted in their favor), and then have them throw themselves at the wall of muskets. This could be achieved out-game as well- letting them know how bad things are for CGN.
I bet CGN will be more cooperative now that GWT's swords is placed on their necks.

	07-02-2004 03:44									#22
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IF I had been GCN, I would have built Forrest in their territory, to even further slow the Ansar Hords. Especially on the Side closer to GWT.

E_T

	07-02-2004 05:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Plus their 15 MI and 18 knights. Did we ever confirm that CGN doesn't have catapults?? -Arrian

quote: BigFree: Does CGN have many Cats? @miccofl: no BigFree: @miccofl: I would tell you the number but it's too embarassing BigFree:

	09-02-2004 01:48									#24
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I asked miccofl in chat before I left on my trip and he told me they only have 4-5

Understandably, I was incredulous.

	09-02-2004 07:14									#25
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CGN has to keep enough units in Agincourt to a)Kill/wound all the pikes so that they can attack MI's with MI's & Knights b)Simply have enough units in there so that GWT Cannot overwhelm them in their initial strike.

Regarding the Settler: Most likely they are going to build a city on 9-9 or 9-6 Agincourt. This will allow them to Attack with Ansar's then retreat to safety. This does make me wonder how they will use the MI's in the attack, If they put them next to Agincourt, CGN should be able to significantly hurt them after going through the pikes sent with them for protection. They will be on the hill, but that is still 4 vs 3. GCN should be able to kill half those pikes in that stack with knights before they build the Fort City. That might keep the MI's at home in that city at least initally.

Last edited by CiverDan on 09-02-2004 at 07:54

	09-02-2004 08:03									#26
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Miccofl has informed me that GWT has outflanked them with 16 Ansar. They are now 1 tile south of the old site of New Castle (abandoned last turn).

CGN's entire army is now holed up in Boston, and their roads leading from the city are all pillaged... meaning that GWT's Ansar can now get to Waterloo faster than CGN's Knights (or Pikes).

Additionally, GWT built a fort city, "Hi guys!", 7-7 of Boston. A 4/4 Pike can be seen there.

CGN is now polling over whether to give us Boston and teleport their army back to their capital. That will allow them just enough time to get their Knights back to Waterloo before the Ansar get there.

	09-02-2004 08:10									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Additionally, GWT built a fort city, "Hi guys!", 7-7 of Boston.

nice

is that their entire army trip, in boston? as in, only a few units here and there mainly that have been just built in the core cities?

yikes.

	09-02-2004 08:12									#28
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The guys are continually military noobs, If they do survive to get to their own UU, they won't know how to use them.

E_T

	09-02-2004 08:13									#29
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel is that their entire army trip, in boston? as in, only a few units here and there mainly that have been just built in the core cities? yikes.

Basically.

They have 29 Pikes, ~15 Knights, 15 MIs. That's the vast majority of their army.

	09-02-2004 08:20									#30
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so agincourt is a sure loss? I can't tell from an old map.

how these guys bet grenouille, is beyond me.