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curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:33
Question  Old Post 06-02-2004 15:32 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Tough Question for Religious Orientated People Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

OK, today I'm back with a new question!

And before we progress any further, I want to straighten a few things out.

1. I am not trolling. I have respect for my fellow posters here.

Just because I ask a question concerning faith does not mean I am
a heretic ogre trying to deprive innocent people of their precious views.

2. I am seriously interested in your answers, and do not appreciate spammers filling up my thread with silliness.

If you have a problem with the question, tell me.

If you cannot maintain a sensible attitude, then get mommy to sit you in your high chair to play, OK?

And if you want to go off topic and discuss the finer points, please start your own thread.

Now if you are up for it, here is a question!

If you are religious, and adhere to the ideas that suicide and murder is bad, how would you tackle this moral problem:

Scenario:
While on holiday, you and your loved ones (partner/family/etc) are taken kidnapped and captive by terrorists/criminals.
They give you the choice of either shooting your loved ones or yourself – What do you do?

You could be heroic, and try and shoot them, resulting in you and your loved ones being killed anyway.

But would that be murder?

And if forced to shoot yourself, is that still suicide?

How would you handle this situation?


Please answer as you see fit.

Last edited by curtsibling on 06-02-2004 at 15:57

Elok is offline Elok
Prince
Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 17:16
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"Religious orientated"? Why, you ill-mannered bigot! I'm "jesus-hating impaired"!

This isn't that tough of a question by my estimation. Either option could represent a valid moral choice, as it is intent that matters more than physical consequence, at least by Orthodox doctrine. If you sincerely think you can peg the terrorists without them getting to your family first, it can be considered a form of self-defense IMO. And sacrificing your own life for the sake of others is not suicide in the forbidden sense, as it is not based on selfishness and spite. They're both very poor options, as in this scenario there is nothing to stop the "terrorists" from presenting the same choice to your loved ones one by one after you die. Just out of curiosity, what sort of goal do these terrorists have?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 17:22
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I am not religious, but I have clear, consistent ethical values.

I try to release them, or call people who can try and release them, since committing suicide won't in no way guarantee their safety anyway.

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
Emperor
Hawthrone
Mar 1999
time: 06:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 17:35 Visit Atahualpa's homepage!
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Keyser Soze

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 17:38
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I use my charms to seduce them and convince them to set me free.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 18:26
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quote:
And if forced to shoot yourself, is that still suicide?


It depends on what your definition of is, is.

JellyBean is offline JellyBean
Warlord

Apr 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 20:14
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Not religious, but as Azazel says - with clear, consistent ethical values.

My choice: shoot as many of them as possible. Stop them from kidnapping anyone else in the future. They probably wouldn't have abided by the agreement anyway - kidnappers don't exactly have a sterling reputation in that respect.

Although - if I thought that they would abide by the precise words of the agreement above, I could shoot myself in the foot and claim that I'd fulfilled its terms.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 20:17 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Is calling in a bombing run so ALL are killed an option?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 20:37
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I'd shoot the kidnappers

Rogan Josh is offline Rogan Josh
Prince

Jan 1970
time: 06:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:25
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Why is this difficult decision only for religious people?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:30 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Who knows? If you paid attention, Curt cared so much, he asked the question then left.

Another in a long line of troll threads, no matter his disclaimer.

Akka is offline Akka
Prince
In front of my computer.
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:34
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Shoot them.
Each one of them down, is one that won't be able to do a terrorist act in the future, and several people kept alive.

I don't trust them to releas me nor my family.
And even if I would, I'm not going to give in to blackmail.

And if I was tied and unable to move, and so my family, and I was to choose if they would shoot them or me...

Me. I would not be able to live with the death of my family on my conscience.
And at least if they don't keep their word, I wouldn't know they have killed my family anyway.
And as a bonus, my family would not have heard me say "kill them so I can live".

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:43
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If some guy jumped you an alley and wanted to rape you, would you let them or would you beat them off?



Me? For Curt's question? I'd tell 'em to F off and eat sheit and die you freakin' psycho!

I think they'd like that, as they are crazy too, declare me king and throw a feast in my honor.

What do I win?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:44
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quote:
Me? For Curt's question? I'd tell 'em to F off and eat sheit and die you freakin' psycho!
u'd whimper like a little biyatch

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Another in a long line of troll threads, no matter his disclaimer.
He gets a little peaved when you call him on that though.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:50
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quote:
u'd whimper like a little biyatch


It's a hypothetical question, and hypothetically I would never whimper like a biyatch... hypothetically

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
Wink  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:51 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
If some guy jumped you an alley and wanted to rape you, would you let them or would you beat them off?



Do you think it would be possible for you to phrase this differently?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:52
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Got spare money?

I was hoping that he'd catch that on his own.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:53
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quote:
Do you think it would be possible for you to phrase this differently?


Sorry.

If some guy jumped you in an alley and wanted to rape you, would you let him or would you beat him off?

Better?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:55
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No.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:57
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my example of a Curt question... it's stupid and either answer would make you look bad.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 21:59
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quote:
would you let them or would you beat them off?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:02
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If I was absolutely sure they'd go free... bleh. Hard choice between shooting the terrorists and shooting myself. It depends on whether or not I though the terrorists would be able to do this again.

And no, I'm not religious either, and no, it wouldn't be murder, and no, it wouldn't be suicide (it may fit the technical defintion of suicide, but I wouldn't view it as "wrong").

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:03 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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why would i trust them to let my family go after i killed myself?

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:04
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yea, as other posters have mentioned its not a tough choice, you shoot at them.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:07
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That doesn't seem so tough. If you have no guarantee of your family's safety even if you shoot yourself, the obvious answer, even for a religious person, is to not do it. If you do have a guarantee, somehow, then the self-sacrifice isn't really suicide...it's like taking a bullet to save an innocent person.

Now here's a real toughy for the religionists:

Thanks to a massive war/famine/catastrophe, etc., the human race has been virtually wiped out except for a small enclave of humanity. By luck, there is only one woman left and the rest are men. The woman is 8 months pregnant, but is having major complications. There is luckily a doctor who diagnoses the situation as thus: The baby is healthy, but the pregnancy will kill the mother if it continues. The woman will be saved by an abortion, but it will damage her uterus beyond repair and end any reproductive hope. The woman wants to have the abortion to save her life, and the doctor has the means of doing it reasonably safely.

So, do you let the woman abort the baby to save her own life, but end humanity in the process, or force her to carry it to term in the hopes the new child will become a progenitor of the next wave of humanity?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:08
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Is the baby female?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:08
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Re: Tough Question for Religious Orientated People Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by curtsibling
While on holiday, you and your loved ones (partner/family/etc) are taken kidnapped and captive by terrorists/criminals.
They give you the choice of either shooting your loved ones or yourself – What do you do?

You could be heroic, and try and shoot them, resulting in you and your loved ones being killed anyway.

But would that be murder?

And if forced to shoot yourself, is that still suicide?

How would you handle this situation?


Please answer as you see fit.



When the *******s first show up to attempt the dirty deed, I do a Doc ****in' Holliday and eith waste the *******s and/or buy time for my loved ones to escape. My individual survival is not relevant except and until the my loved ones are safe, but under no circumstances do I allow any of us to be taken prisoner while I'm still capable of any resistance.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:11 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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well, since i think the world would be better off without human kind, i'd either let her abort, or kill all the other males and myself, letting the baby fend for itself. if it survives, it'll be because of divine intervention, and will no doubt later have a virgin birth, and a new covenant will be made between heaven and earth.

Rogan Josh is offline Rogan Josh
Prince

Jan 1970
time: 06:33
  Old Post 06-02-2004 22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
Is the baby female?


perv

 
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