08-02-2004 14:44									#1
	Nuclear War VI signup Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=107728

Nuclear War V is coming to a close, so let the signup for VI begin. The rules are in the thread linked to, and the gamesmaster is provisionally General Tacticus.

I signup btw.

Full list:

Gamesmaster:

GeneralT

Players:

DrSpike
ADG
Skanky
Jamski*
Vlad
SC

*ok he is in now after his whining.

Last edited by DrSpike on 09-02-2004 at 23:16

	08-02-2004 14:51									#2
	Remove this text

Well, before we begin the enxt game, does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can drag the game out a bit? The last one was very short.

	08-02-2004 15:19									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Don't let Jamski and SC play?

	08-02-2004 15:32									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hehe, on a more serious note we had more players in the earlier games I think, which contributed to the shortness of the last game.

	08-02-2004 16:02									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Maybe by starting with 4 cities instead of 3, and nobody has spies from the beginning of a game... ?


Btw, since this is a sign-up thread, I'd better sign up... city names will be posted later

	08-02-2004 16:08									#6
	Suffering from ads?

I think one spy and 3 cities is fine. But wait for 8-10 players, all of whom should be reliable ones.

	08-02-2004 16:12									#7
	Got spare money?

GT >>

What do you do when a spy is sabotaging an nuke order, where this player has stockpiled some nukes? Will the nukes get 'un-stockpiled', or will this player be able to send 4 nukes next time?

And what about if player X sends a spy to gather information about player Y, then player X decides to nuke player Y. What happens to the spy? Does it get killed or not? It makes sense if this spy managed to get out of the city in time, since it knows some nukes are on the way...

	08-02-2004 16:13									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

1) The nukes remain; the spy prevented their launch, but didn't destroy the nukes themselves.

2) The spy escapes, for the reasons you stated.

	08-02-2004 16:17									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think if the stockpiled nukes are being fired, all should be sabotaged by the spy. If they are not being fired then of course they still exist.

	08-02-2004 16:23									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

That was why I asked, to see when GT thinks the sabotage takes place... the spy could in theori have planted some time-bomb on the nukes, making them explode in the air...

	08-02-2004 16:25									#11
	Tired of ads?

So it should be changed to work the way I said I think.

Also, point of order since it didn't come up before the last game. Should spies be able to sabotage bunkers? I think they shouldn't, since spies should have at least one possible counter. The spy should perish in a trap whilst searching.

	08-02-2004 16:28									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

* Adagio takes a look at last game

I agree

	08-02-2004 16:32									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Hehe, we are not rewriting history, since the precedent was set when I killed Skanky and in game it was the gamesmaster's call to make. For next game we should vote on changing it to what I suggested.

I vote change.

	08-02-2004 16:36									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I also vote for a change...

* Adagio starts building a time-machine

	08-02-2004 16:40									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Should we also vote for spies interacting with stockpiled nukes? If so, I vote, quite unsurprisingly, for what I suggested above.

	08-02-2004 16:44									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You mean that stockpiled nukes dissapears, if being sabotaged? I vote to that also...

	08-02-2004 16:46									#17
	Tired of ads?

Yes, vote on both; and I think, on reflection, that both changes are a good idea.If spies can sabotage bunkers, then that option becomes almost entirely pointless, since it's fairly standard procedure to sabotage someone before launching The Big Strike (tm) anyway.

	08-02-2004 16:50									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by ADG You mean that stockpiled nukes dissapears, if being sabotaged? I vote to that also...

Only if being fired that turn I said. Otherwise they remain.

	08-02-2004 16:53									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes of course...

	08-02-2004 17:26									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think spies should be able to be set to "Home defence", killing a single spy that is sent out to sabotage your production. Both spies would be eliminated in the process, but your orders would still get through. This way you actually have a counter to sabotage, and a cost associated with it.

To balance this, spies sent to spy on other players shouldn't be killed even if nukes hit the enemy city. This makes the weaker spying on others option somewhat worth persuing.

Finally, I am in this game. There's revenge to be had!

	08-02-2004 17:37									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think that's an overnerf. I concur that bunkers are not a great counter, leaving spies still powerful. Maybe starting with none but keeping my proposed rule is the way to go, since that way you have to use a turn to get them. Also, Skanky's suggestion looks a little better with none to start also, since it isn't the case that everyone will have a spy they can set to defend from the start.

	08-02-2004 19:29									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I like that. You need to train a spy before the "bigstrike" (tm)

As it is there's no good counter for stockpile, then spy and strike.
Well, there's not even a BAD counter.
Just adjust starting spies to 0, and make it possible to use a spy up by deploying him at home.

-Jam

	08-02-2004 19:50									#23
	Support Apolyton

Well let's separate the issues. At present there is no counter, but my bunker suggestion alone yields a counter to (maybe stockpile) nuke with spies sabotaging.

Quite possibly people think that is not enough. So vote for either:

1) bunker suggestion alone
2) bunker suggestion with 0 spies to start
3) bunker suggestion with spies able to defend
4) bunker suggestion with spies able to defend and 0 to start

More thought would have to be done if 3) or 4) is preferred. However my money is on 2), which retains spies effectiveness but makes them harder to get, with a possible counter anyway. You're only going to be able to pull off one big strike (TM) per game, and 3 turns to do it with these rules makes bunkers an appropriate counter IMO.

	08-02-2004 20:17									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Let's go with 2. Its a small nerfing of spies, but keeps the game mostly intact (unlike the abortive governments idea )

-Jam

	08-02-2004 21:07									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

I could accept 2 as well. 3 turns for a big strike still allows the potential target to send out 6 of their own nukes...

	09-02-2004 02:38									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm in. I vote for option 2.

	09-02-2004 05:07									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

Looks like 2 is popular. Perhaps we can get 2 or 3 more players this time too?

-Jam

	09-02-2004 05:30									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Who is listing the players who have signed up so far? Spikie?

	09-02-2004 06:00									#29
	Support Apolyton

Yeah, let's push some responsibilty for something his way. He's been on this site long enough to know what to do, I suppose

-Jam

	09-02-2004 06:03									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Its more because he started the thread. The first post is always the best spot to put a list. I don't think he does know what to do though.
You can't trust those economists.