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Tripledoc
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But polytheistic religions are perhaps more based on morality tales, than strict laws.
Greek religion I think had no cencept of heaven, only the underworld - a dreary place.
Polytheisctic religions are often very life affirming, and leaves philosophy to a secular debate.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:33
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quote:
by definition they are all narrow-minded judgmental intolerants who think everybody else is going to the lake of fire to burn for eternity when they die, whereas Faithful people are all personal friends with The Man,
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Interesting.
What would you think of a statement like this?
"For neither Baptism, Supper, nor church-fellowship, nor any other external ceremony, can without faith, the new birth, and a change or renewal of life, help or qualify us, that we may please God or recieve any consolation or promise of salvation from Him. "
"that all men without distinction, if they are obedient, through faith, follow, fulfill and live according to the precepts of the same, are his children and rightful heirs; having thus excluded none from the precious inheritance of eternal salvation."
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yavoon
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I think its messed up. but the french are scared of the muslims so why not?
it is an irony that u take everyone's tax money to build a huge socialist state then proceed to tell everyone what they can and can't wear in the state their tax money bought.
roads and sidewalks are state places too. religion shouldn't be allowed newhere near them. and also low income housing, no religion in low income housing. or in churches protected by the state, no religion in them.
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Akka
1) As students, they are under the authority of the State as long as they are in school. The State is responsible for everything that happens to them while they are in the school area at school hours.
As such, they are concerned by state neutrality on religion.
2) School is a place of learning. Displaying personnal opinions about politics and religions is forbidden, as it's not "learning", it's "publicising".
3) Consider it a dress code. You don't have problems with schools that require uniforms, I suppose. Then it's the same. The dress code of state school is "no religious signs". |
actually in the "free world" the free exchange of ideas and opinions is considered the cornerstone to learning and improvement of a society.
u should join us someday.
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Tripledoc
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I sincerely hope that the French wins this cultural battle and causes all religion to wither away.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by yavoon
actually in the "free world" the free exchange of ideas and opinions is considered the cornerstone to learning and improvement of a society.
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And your opinions are improving in what way?
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
And your opinions are improving in what way? |
it is a general idea that allowing a free exchange of opinions and ideas facilitates a free and better nation.
do u not subscribe to this idea?
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Akka
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In front of my computer.
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Actually, I do have an annoyance with dress codes for schools.
So in public schools then, you shouldn't express your opinion on ANYTHING, since that would be -- gasp -- publicizing.  |
Not something that is religious, political or commercial.
Of course, you're welcome to ask questions about religions, publicity, history, political parties, etc.
But it must be restricted to facts, not propaganda or proselytism or trying to get bucks for it.
It's a place of learning (=> knowledge, critical thinking), NOT a place of endoctrinement (of course, I'm aware that there is plenty of people who mix "neutrality" with "religion-bashing", but well, if the concept of neutrality is lost for them, I'm not to blame...).
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Akka
Not something that is religious, political or commercial.
Of course, you're welcome to ask questions about religions, publicity, history, political parties, etc.
But it must be restricted to facts, not propaganda or proselytism or trying to get bucks for it.
It's a place of learning (=> knowledge, critical thinking), NOT a place of endoctrinement (of course, I'm aware that there is plenty of people who mix "neutrality" with "religion-bashing", but well, if the concept of neutrality is lost for them, I'm not to blame...). |
Again, I still do not understand how allowing people to wear anything that expresses their religion -- allowing anyone of any religion -- constitutes government-sanctioned indoctrination of one, specific religion over another.
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Akka
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In front of my computer.
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
The STATE has no business in forcing religion on students. Restricting the expression of the students IS wrong. Expression by the students is NOT "religion being mixed with the state" - rather, the repression of it is almost an enforcement of atheism by the State. |
Ah, well, I said it :
quote:
Originally posted by Akka
(of course, I'm aware that there is plenty of people who mix "neutrality" with "religion-bashing", but well, if the concept of neutrality is lost for them, I'm not to blame...). |
I'm just soooo surprised 
quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Again, I still do not understand how allowing people to wear anything that expresses their religion -- allowing anyone of any religion -- constitutes government-sanctioned indoctrination of one, specific religion over another. |
On a symbolic point of view : it's run by the state, hence it's neutral when it comes to religions and political opinions. Hence no religion nor political opinion for everybody representing or under the responsability of the State.
Seems pretty easy to understand for me.
On a practical point of view, it's hard to say when ends a statement of opinion, and when starts proselytism. Saying "no religions nor politics at school" is a good, simple and fair way to avoid the bickering about "but no I wasn't proselytising (sp ?), I was just saying/displaying what I thought".
On a principle point of view : personnal opinions about religions and politics, has nothing to do in school.
Well, it can be argued that it's just our values, and not a universal rule.
As for me, I stand by these values.
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Akka
On a principle point of view : personnal opinions about religions and politics, has nothing to do in school.
Well, it can be argued that it's just our values, and not a universal rule.
As for me, I stand by these values. |
here in america we debate our religious and political points of view in school quite often.
I was unaware in france that the "head in sand" technique had been adopted.
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Akka
Ah, well, I said it :
quote:
Originally posted by Akka
(of course, I'm aware that there is plenty of people who mix "neutrality" with "religion-bashing", but well, if the concept of neutrality is lost for them, I'm not to blame...). |
I'm just soooo surprised |
You're actually wrong here - the state isn't being neutral with respect to religion, it's SUPPRESSING religion. Being neutral is no advocacy or suppression of any religious view, including atheism.
quote:
On a symbolic point of view : it's run by the state, hence it's neutral when it comes to religions and political opinions. Hence no religion nor political opinion for everybody representing or under the responsability of the State.
Seems pretty easy to understand for me. |
The state is neutral when it comes to religions and political opinions. It's run by the state. Therefore it is neutral wrt those things. However, it is completely irrational to then suggest that those under its responsibility must ALSO be neutral wrt those things. Should prisoners, who are the responsibility of an organization run by the state (a jail), also be required to be "neutral" wrt religion?
quote:
On a practical point of view, it's hard to say when ends a statement of opinion, and when starts proselytism. Saying "no religions nor politics at school" is a good, simple and fair way to avoid the bickering about "but no I wasn't proselytising (sp ?), I was just saying/displaying what I thought". |
What's wrong with "proselytising"? It is merely a negative term for trying to convince others of your point of view. If an action is specifically disruptive to the classroom, or ends up with physical harm to a student or property, then yes, it should be stopped, but not because it is "proselytising".
quote:
On a principle point of view : personnal opinions about religions and politics, has nothing to do in school.
Well, it can be argued that it's just our values, and not a universal rule.
As for me, I stand by these values. |
Why don't they have anything to do with school? Students most of all need to learn the importance of independent thought, not be spoon-fed government propoganda.
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