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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Bush poll numbers plummeting; Kerry beats Bush 53-42
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Richard I is offline Richard I
Settler
Oslo, Norway
Jul 2002
time: 06:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 18:20
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Bush will probably win anyway. Sadly, this poll isn't worth the "paper" it written on.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 19:32 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard I
Sadly, this poll isn't worth the "paper" it written on.


Why? And how is it different than all the polls the Democrat posters were using showing how Bush would get beat

The smart posters to this thread mentioned how polls are meaningless at this time... Still too early... The ones that used the original poll in this thread as proof that Bush is going down.... uhhhh... the numbers will continue to change... and none of the polls will really matter until right up to the election

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 19:35
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Yup at this point the polls at best show the ebb and flow of media portrayal.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 20:24 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


Yup. I can't agree with the man in everything. But I agree with him overall. So I will probably end up voting for him.


Yeah -- I mean, bigoted homophobes can't be all that bad. Maybe the poor ignorant bigot is just unfairly misunderstood by too many gays.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 20:32
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Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The election is ten months away. These numbers are meaningless. Bin Laden could be captured in October.


even that wouldn't save him.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 20:51
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What's Kerry's current stand on Gays?
Everytime I listen to him, it seems different. Last time I listened, he sounded like a "bigoted homophobe" I guess it depends on who he's talking to.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 21:04 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Kerry supports civil unions -- he's opposed to gay marriage.

Sounds less bigoted than Bush.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 21:09
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Sounds like he's too big a wuss to take a firm stand for what he really believes. And gives him some wiggle room to change. Not exactly strong leadership thinking.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 21:19
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it doesnt matter to you if anyone provides proof. you just dismiss it, so i dont see why you even ask.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 21:27
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PROOF.
I had heard the same (unions instead of marriages), I was asking if he's changed since. I didn't dismiss it. Just commenting on that I've heard different things from him.
Gays shouldn't look to him as a savior. Kerry will go along with popular opinion. I actually believe that Kerry supports Gays, but I find it disturbing that he always seem to stop short of fully supporting them out of fear that it will lose him votes.

I personally dislike Bushies stand on this but at least you know where he stands.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 21:42
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dammit not you rah., im talking to fez, who posted on the first page before i realized how many pages where here and that i didnt quyote cuz i thought it was the last post


nevermind.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 21:50 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rah
PROOF.
I had heard the same (unions instead of marriages), I was asking if he's changed since. I didn't dismiss it. Just commenting on that I've heard different things from him.
Gays shouldn't look to him as a savior. Kerry will go along with popular opinion. I actually believe that Kerry supports Gays, but I find it disturbing that he always seem to stop short of fully supporting them out of fear that it will lose him votes.

I personally dislike Bushies stand on this but at least you know where he stands.


Yeah, you know me so well -- I worship Kerry beyond belief!

Actually, I support Kerry even with the knowledge that he is not supporting gay marriage, but at least he doesn't hate gays. It seems like for political, pragmatic reasons, Kerry is only willing to support civil unions.

I say it's better to take one step forward, than two steps backwards with Bush's licking the shoes of religious fundamentalists.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 22:11
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Sorry LoA. Didn't realize.

And to Mr. Fun, yes this election will be tough for me, being a moderate Republican. While I usually agree with most of the party platform, I too think they're leaning way too far right for my tastes. It's actually kind of Ironic that his call for a constitutional amendment against gay marriages is one of the things that's causing me the most problem. (it's usually their abortion stand) Its funny that there are actual Republicans out here that it is becoming a big issue to. Who would have thought that descriminating against gays would turn off Republicans.

But having said all that, I feel the alternative is worse. We'll see how it all plays out. I may be punching out a non-republican chad for the first time in a long time for president.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:33
  Old Post 30-03-2004 23:05 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rah

And to Mr. Fun, yes this election will be tough for me, being a moderate Republican. While I usually agree with most of the party platform, I too think they're leaning way too far right for my tastes. It's actually kind of Ironic that his call for a constitutional amendment against gay marriages is one of the things that's causing me the most problem. (it's usually their abortion stand) Its funny that there are actual Republicans out here that it is becoming a big issue to. Who would have thought that descriminating against gays would turn off Republicans.

But having said all that, I feel the alternative is worse. We'll see how it all plays out. I may be punching out a non-republican chad for the first time in a long time for president.


chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 00:04 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rah
But having said all that, I feel the alternative is worse. We'll see how it all plays out. I may be punching out a non-republican chad for the first time in a long time for president.


The question you should be asking yourself is how to best influence the direction of the Republican Party. Is it worth it in the long run to tak a four year hit in order to defeat the reactionary consolidation of the Party? If Bush wins, the moderates will no longer have any place in the party.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:02
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I'm not sure that moderates will no longer have a place. And somehow, rewarding the Dems to punish my own party seems a bit extreme. But it must be considered.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:05
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How could you Rah!

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:07
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I find it difficult to reward the Dems who have adopted a similar pose since the 2002 midterms. Their thoughts were and are we can't win by being moderate so we will try gravitating to our extreme left. Were either of the parties actually centrist today, who knows?

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:07
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It will be a drastic measure if I do it. While unlikely, it must be considered.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:08
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Nice, but 10 months to early.

Buck Birdseed is offline Buck Birdseed
Emperor
Khoon Ki Pyasi Dayan (1988)
Nov 2000
time: 05:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:17 Visit Buck Birdseed's homepage!
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Yes, Kerry has clearly peaked his form too early. If he maintains the acceleration it could result in overtraining and a physical collapse. Perhaps he should try interval training for a while.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:38 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rah
I'm not sure that moderates will no longer have a place. And somehow, rewarding the Dems to punish my own party seems a bit extreme. But it must be considered.


Go read the article in my Republican Civil War thread. The conservatives are actively trynig to drive you moderates out, at least from positions of power and authority. I'm sure they'll welcome your continued votes.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:47
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The latest polls I have seen have shown Bush leading Kerry 51-47

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:48
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Yep I saw the same poll on page 3 from Ming.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 01:53
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I found this interesting when I read the paper today.

quote:
TV ads score big in Bush turnaround Kerry's wide lead erased in states targeted by both
By Susan Page
USA TODAY


WASHINGTON -- A week of hearings on Capitol Hill and criticism from a former counterterrorism aide have eroded President Bush's poll standing on fighting terrorism. But that's nothing compared to the damage that Bush's campaign ads may have done to Democratic candidate John Kerry.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll shows a remarkable turnaround in 17 battleground states where polls and historic trends indicate the race will be close, and where the Bush campaign has aired TV ads. Those ads say Bush has provided ''steady leadership in times of change'' while portraying Kerry as a tax-hiking, flip-flopping liberal.

The ads have been one factor in wiping away an inflated lead Kerry held in those states. Most of them have had primaries or caucuses that allowed Democrats to dominate the news and Kerry to emerge as a victor. In a survey taken in mid-February, Kerry led Bush by 28 percentage points in those states, 63% to 35%. Now Bush leads Kerry in them by 6 points, 51% to 45%.

In contrast, there has been much less volatility in states where the ads haven't aired. Kerry held a 4-point lead in them in February; Bush holds a 2-point lead now.

The Bush campaign also has begun defining Kerry before he has defined himself. In the states where the ads have run, Kerry's unfavorable rating has risen 16 points since mid-February. In the other states, it's up just 5 points. The margin of error for each group of states is +/--5 percentage points.

''For Kerry having won the nomination, voters came away not knowing much about him,'' says Kathryn Dunn Tenpas of the Brookings Institution, author of a study of re-election campaigns titled Presidents as Candidates. ''He's a blank slate to a lot of people, so negative ads can have a big impact.''

Some Democratic analysts say Kerry's decision to take a week of vacation, while hard to begrudge after a grueling primary campaign, meant that Bush's ads went largely unanswered. So far, the Bush campaign has spent more than $20 million on the ads, which began airing March 4.

The Kerry campaign has spent more than $2 million on ads; the liberal Media Fund has spent more than $5 million.

The poll, taken Friday through Sunday, has worrisome results for Bush as well.

The president's standing on handling terrorism has been dented by the testimony of former White House aide Richard Clarke and the scrutiny of the blue-ribbon commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks. That's important because the perception of Bush as a strong leader post-9/11 is his greatest political strength.

''His calling card is that he is the president who established firm leadership during a period of crisis,'' says Mark Rozell, a political scientist at Catholic University of America who has studied presidents' assertions of executive privilege. He says the refusal of national security adviser Condoleezza Rice to testify before the commission because of that principle isn't persuasive for most people: ''The public wants answers.''

A 53% majority now say that the Bush administration is ''covering up something'' about its handling of intelligence information before the attacks. Bush's approval rating on handling terrorism dropped to its lowest level since 9/11, though a 58% majority still express approval.

Bush fares much better against Kerry than he did just three weeks ago. In early March, Kerry led by 8 points. Now Bush leads by 4.

The survey underscores some of the fundamentals of 2004: The public is unusually interested in the election, almost evenly divided between the two major candidates:

* Nearly two-thirds of those surveyed say they're paying ''quite a lot'' of attention to the campaign, an unusually high number so early in the year.

* Four in 10 say they are sure to vote for Bush. The same number say the same of Kerry.

* Among Republicans, 83% believe the Bush administration's testimony before the Sept. 11 commission. Among Democrats, 76% believe Clarke.

One more finding: TV ads are powerful. A majority echo the Bush ads' themes about the Massachusetts senator: 57% say Kerry has changed positions for political reasons, and 58% say their federal taxes will go up if he's elected. And the percentage who say he's ''too liberal'' has jumped from 29% in February to 41% now.

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Go read the article in my Republican Civil War thread. The conservatives are actively trynig to drive you moderates out, at least from positions of power and authority. I'm sure they'll welcome your continued votes.


Yes, I read the article and the thread. It's all DEM propaganda to sow confusion in the enemy's camp.

Traitors.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 03:38
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Sounds like a vote for a third party might not be so bad after all RAH.
Maybe not for it's politics but just as a matter of priciple or protest.

If you can't stand voting DEM at least don't vote REP.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 03:39 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Kerry supports civil unions -- he's opposed to gay marriage.

Sounds less bigoted than Bush.


Last I heard Kerry was a bigot himself. I heard him say "I'm strongly against gay marriage".

"TV ads score big in Bush turnaround Kerry's wide lead erased in states targeted by both"

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Kerry is too liberal for the US.


and the sig grows...

Come on, Kerry's barely liberal at all. He friggin doesn't support gay marriage, even! Most of the rightists here are more "liberal" than him, truly.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:33
  Old Post 31-03-2004 05:30 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Look at it his voting record, numb nuts. He's more liberal then Ted Kennedy. So why not support Ted Kennedy to be his VP?

 
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