16-02-2004 08:09									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Fez First off I never said I was interested in you. The problem I had was I always thought you were female. But I don't care. You definitely display an attitude that is not worth my time.

Ah, don't have another hissy fit, you great tortillera.

Funny, most of the gay South Americans I met in London had a great sense of humour. You must be the exception that proves the rule.

Still, no shirtless pics, thank you. We need to keep our food down, Saint Fez of the Puppy Look.

	16-02-2004 08:09									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Just because it said of the european dissent? Good news is SUPPOSED to give both sides, dimwit. Then again, fascists don't believe in a free media.

I'm European. So don't even try speaking for others dimwit. Baghdad, I mean British Broadcasting Corporation does not give both sides.

	16-02-2004 08:11									#63
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Ah, don't have another hissy fit, you great tortillera. Funny, most of the gay South Americans I met in London had a great sense of humour. You must be the exception that proves the rule. Still, no shirtless pics, thank you. We need to keep our food down, Saint Fez of the Puppy Look.

I'm from Spain... Have you ever met a Spanish guy?

First off I wasn't going to post one as I don't have one anyways.

	16-02-2004 08:24									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I'm from Spain... Have you ever met a Spanish guy? First off I wasn't going to post one as I don't have one anyways.

No. The Great Cauliflower, Franco wouldn't let them visit Great Britain. He was afraid they might be infected with strange notions of modernity, democracy, public sanitation and freedom.

Yes, I have been to Spain, and yes, I have met Spanish men.

Good news about the photograph there.

	16-02-2004 08:31									#65
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom No. The Great Cauliflower, Franco wouldn't let them visit Great Britain. He was afraid they might be infected with strange notions of modernity, democracy, public sanitation and freedom. Yes, I have been to Spain, and yes, I have met Spanish men. Good news about the photograph there.

Franco has been gone since 1975. A lot has changed. Ask my parents who were there in the last years of Franco... and about how the country is now.

So don't be a moron.

	16-02-2004 08:45									#66
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Hey Molly, why don't you pick on someone your own size?

	16-02-2004 15:32									#67
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The only question I would have then, is why is the term 'Baghdad Broadcasting Corp.' widespread?

I had the same question. Guess it passes for wit in some parts.

	16-02-2004 15:49									#68
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I listen to the BBC for news. For political commentary I look elsewhere.

The licence fee is effectively a tax, and a very unfair one.

	16-02-2004 18:17									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue ... The licence fee is effectively a tax, and a very unfair one.

Ah, but if you just LISTEN to the BBC, you could bin your TV, listen to the radio, and NOT PAY A PENNY.

Seems fair to me (TV isn't worth it for me).

	16-02-2004 22:33									#70
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The strength of the BBC is its breadth of coverage. Personally, I don't find much value to the BBC beyond that. Further, even if I did find value beyond that, I would object to so much of my tax money being spent on it. Why is the BBC being paid to compete against established, respected news source like the FT, for instance?

Firstly- the BBC isn't funded by taxation. It's a licence fee. If you don't own a TV you pay nothing towards it, and can listen to BBC radio free of charge.

Secondly, the BBC is not just a news channel. Its charter commits it to certain levels of educational/religious/local programming- unprofitable things, to be blunt. It's a public service.

That ties in with the old Reithian values that the BBC should add value to the nation. It's never been simply an entertainment medium alone. It also means that we get unquestionably great features such as the BBC's magnificent Natural History unit which has produced genuinely groundbreaking TV, and changed the medium as we know it (remember "Life on Earth"?). If you want my opinion that justifies its existance alone.

	16-02-2004 23:07									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Firstly- the BBC isn't funded by taxation. It's a licence fee. If you don't own a TV you pay nothing towards it, and can listen to BBC radio free of charge.

Televisions are practically a standard household good. You could live without a television, but it would put a big impingement on your options. There are many people who would not want to watch the BBC or listen to BBC radio, but would want a television to watch subscription channels, DVDs or videos etc.

I personally believe in the licence system, but to use that argument is pretty weak I think.

	16-02-2004 23:09									#72
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Though 100% accurate.

	16-02-2004 23:12									#73
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By analogy, the argument that you can avoid income tax by not earning more than £4,615 per year is 100% accurate. Its not really a good argument for claiming that income tax isn't really a tax.

	16-02-2004 23:25									#74
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The BBC is a decent medium. That doesn't mean it's always objective or even that it always tries to be or that it's devoided of the provincial british (or any other country's) character or that it always has caught the whole picture. But most of the time it does.

Its reporters seem to be relatively good at their work. And it does have an admirable independance. For example the state chanels traditionally will follow the government line and it's the job of some of the private chanels to "act" as opposition.

However it does follow an "Aglosaxon" point of view and writing (I wonder why, can't escape it, they invented it) in its way of viewing everything from economics to politics. But the good thing is, its inherent culture of as much objectivity as possible maybe doesn't let this aglosaxon aspect get the better of it to the point it will critically influence its perspective.

All in all a decent medium althoug no match for Le Monde Diplomatique but this isn't its mission I think.

It also gets lots of points for having an innovative character and to a large degree independence and in depth look based on simple trusted pluralism to the matters that "catch" its attention from what it looks like.

	16-02-2004 23:30									#75
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Like Crunch, I think that's making a distinction in the absence of a difference, at least for my purposes.

As for the other stuff that the BBC does, the world is even more full of commercial and donation-driven choices in these areas than in news. The BBC has the unfair advantage of a captive funding source.

As for adding value to the nation, I think that the BBC can add a lot of value, even if it is broken up or its funding sources change. Why are you being so conservative about this?

	16-02-2004 23:36									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp That ties in with the old Reithian values that the BBC should add value to the nation. It's never been simply an entertainment medium alone. It also means that we get unquestionably great features such as the BBC's magnificent Natural History unit which has produced genuinely groundbreaking TV, and changed the medium as we know it (remember "Life on Earth"?). If you want my opinion that justifies its existance alone.

Walking With Dinosaurs!

	16-02-2004 23:37									#77
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BBC easily has the best international news quality of any media organization. American sources like the NYT, WP, CSM, NPR, and the Newshour w/ Jim Leher (really, the only TV source that matches the quality of the best print sources IMO) cover American news better, but one'd expect that. I'm sure Le Monde covers French news better than the BBC too.

	16-02-2004 23:41									#78
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quote: Firstly- the BBC isn't funded by taxation. It's a licence fee. If you don't own a TV you pay nothing towards it, and can listen to BBC radio free of charge.

You'll be claiming the rise in NI contributions isn't a rise in income tax next.

Of course the licence fee is a tax. If one does exist (and there could be economic justification for it I'm sure), then it surely would be fairer to split the proceeds across stations.

quote: Secondly, the BBC is not just a news channel. Its charter commits it to certain levels of educational/religious/local programming- unprofitable things, to be blunt. It's a public service.

If it is providing things that are unprofitable, it is an inefficient service. And other channels manage to provide local news, as well as commitments to things other than news.

quote: That ties in with the old Reithian values that the BBC should add value to the nation. It's never been simply an entertainment medium alone. It also means that we get unquestionably great features such as the BBC's magnificent Natural History unit which has produced genuinely groundbreaking TV, and changed the medium as we know it (remember "Life on Earth"?). If you want my opinion that justifies its existance alone.

I don't remember that. I suppose that makes me one of the plebs that would prefer to see programs created that the people want (it is a public service after all Laz?), rather than a few programs for the intellectual snobbery of a few.

And before I'm seen criticising and not expressing my PoV, I'd rather see all programs as pay-per-view. This would be more efficient than the current method, and wouldn't serve as a regressive tax, as the licence fee does. Of course, for programs such as Coronation Street, I'd expect the cost of watching to be as little as 5 pence an episode. With the advent of interactive television, I'm sure there could easily be a system whereby users are charged per month for the TV they have watched, similarly to other utilities. Better programming that way.

	16-02-2004 23:44									#79
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I strongly dislike the argument that has appeared a couple of times on this thread..."I liked Program X that the BBC created, therefore the licence fee is an excellent idea!"

Other channels have equally good programs, but that isn't an argument that the licence fee should be abolished.

	17-02-2004 02:04									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Franco has been gone since 1975. A lot has changed. Ask my parents who were there in the last years of Franco... and about how the country is now. So don't be a moron.

I think someone who didn't realize

i) I was male

ii) I was gay

is ill-suited to call me a moron, let alone anything else.

From my post, you have no idea when I went to Spain, nor howmany times. I had the (mis)fortune to go there when the Catholic reactionary regime of The Great Cauliflower was still in place, and before he breathed his last.

Very instructive- I had never seen public beggary before (this was a few years before Margaret Thatcher's election) and was shocked to be approached in the street and at railway stations by figures out of Goya's caprichos asking for a few pesetas.

I have also been since the Great Cauliflower died, and my what an improvement, since the Great Blockage to progress was sent on its way by the laxative of death.

So Fez, don't go bandying about insults- you'll only end up looking a complete arse, rather than the usual one and a half buttocks.

	17-02-2004 02:09									#81
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Anyone who goes up against molly in a battle of wits must be lacking some.

	17-02-2004 02:10									#82
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What do you want me to say to you?

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I think someone who didn't realize i) I was male ii) I was gay is ill-suited to call me a moron, let alone anything else.

Huh?

quote: From my post, you have no idea when I went to Spain, nor howmany times. I had the (mis)fortune to go there when the Catholic reactionary regime of The Great Cauliflower was still in place, and before he breathed his last.

And? Ummm weren't you born in 1969? You went there when you were a child? So you knew you were gay when you were what 4 or 5 years old? I'm sorry I'm not following you. Franco died in 1975.

quote: I have also been since the Great Cauliflower died, and my what an improvement, since the Great Blockage to progress was sent on its way by the laxative of death.

I am in support of the current government. Even check my signature. You know where my support is.

quote: So Fez, don't go bandying about insults- you'll only end up looking a complete arse, rather than the usual one and a half buttocks.

I think I already made you look like a fool.

	17-02-2004 02:18									#83
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GO FEZ!!!

	17-02-2004 02:49									#84
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No Fez, you made yourself look like a fool, not knowing that anyone who's born before 1970 gets Birthday December 31 1969 after the Apolyton server chrash last year.

	17-02-2004 02:58									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue You'll be claiming the rise in NI contributions isn't a rise in income tax next.

NIC isn't a tax, at least according to the Inland Revenue. The IR have lots of technicalities like that though.

quote: And before I'm seen criticising and not expressing my PoV, I'd rather see all programs as pay-per-view. This would be more efficient than the current method, and wouldn't serve as a regressive tax, as the licence fee does. Of course, for programs such as Coronation Street, I'd expect the cost of watching to be as little as 5 pence an episode.

Coronation Street isn't on BBC, its cost of production is covered by ITV's advertising revenuess. Why would you want to pay more for it when the cost is already covered?

	17-02-2004 03:00									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie No Fez, you made yourself look like a fool, not knowing that anyone who's born before 1970 gets Birthday December 31 1969 after the Apolyton server chrash last year.

I didn't know that. And don't say I am a fool.. because the only fool around here is you.

	17-02-2004 03:07									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Fez What do you want me to say to you? And? Ummm weren't you born in 1969? You went there when you were a child? So you knew you were gay when you were what 4 or 5 years old? I'm sorry I'm not following you. Franco died in 1975. I think I already made you look like a fool.

An apology might be nice, but given your obduracy unlikely.

No, I wasn't born in 1969, I was born in 1963. Which is irrelevant in any case, since I didn't have to be an adult to know what a beggar was, nor to understand what a country mired in Catholic reaction and ignorance looked like- all I needed was a pair of eyes.

When did I know I was gay? Exactly how that has any bearing on the matter I'm not sure- but I first had feelings towards men when I was three or four- I remember watching 'You Only Live Twice' on holiday and seeing Sean Connery in a Japanese bath being washed. I thought he looked nice, but I didn't know why.

That took a few more years

As for me looking like a fool- well, the sabot is definitely on your pied, because you've definitely sabotaged yourself again.

I retract my earlier statement- you now appear more than a complete arse, and are now easily a horse's as well as a human arse.

	17-02-2004 03:10									#88
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom No, I wasn't born in 1969, I was born in 1963. Which is irrelevant in any case, since I didn't have to be an adult to know what a beggar was, nor to understand what a country mired in Catholic reaction and ignorance looked like- all I needed was a pair of eyes.

I am not defending Franco. For the last time!

quote: That took a few more years As for me looking like a fool- well, the sabot is definitely on your pied, because you've definitely sabotaged yourself again. I retract my earlier statement- you now appear more than a complete arse, and are now easily a horse's as well as a human arse.

F**k off. I admitted I did not know about the server crash. It was a simple mistake. Or do you want to display more hostility where it is unwarranted?

	17-02-2004 03:11									#89
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I love irony.

	17-02-2004 03:13									#90
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Molly is clearly in the wrong here.