06-04-2004 17:16									#451
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Since I am supporting the Stade Toulousain I have always heard that the worst opponent of the Stade Toulousain is the Stade Toulousain itself.

And you not travelling to support them!

	06-04-2004 17:28									#452
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quote: Originally posted by finbar And you not travelling to support them!

I used to and I am still doing it during the final phases.

	06-04-2004 18:52									#453
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Third spot in the six nations is better than third spot in the Tri-nations.

I think VD and Plank have buried the hatchet (in Plank's skull) these days.

I'm not in until next Wednesday now (business trip then Easter break). I hope Tamerlin is nice and restrained if Toulouse post a record QF score.

	06-04-2004 22:20									#454
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When your favorite team has lost somewhere in England 77 to 3 you learn not to brag too much.

	07-04-2004 06:15									#455
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I hope Tamerlin is nice and restrained if Toulouse post a record QF score.

He'll probably forget to watch it or forget to set the VCR to record it or he'll set the VCR to record it but the machine will fail.

	07-04-2004 12:35									#456
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quote: Originally posted by finbar He'll probably forget to watch it or forget to set the VCR to record it or he'll set the VCR to record it but the machine will fail.

No chance, I will see it live!

	07-04-2004 17:17									#457
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A home game, obviously.

	08-04-2004 04:51									#459
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So the inevitable has happened. The Brumbies, six points clear at the top of the S12 table, with a little less than half the season remaining, have announced that coach David Nucifora's contract won't be renewed next season.

The stated reason? He was employed to develop new, young talent. According to the club, he has done that successfully. Now, though, they don't think he's the right person to take that new, young talent to the next level.

The truth? The Brumbies are an organisation in which the players have much to say in the running of the place. Nucifora's frank, blunt manner has never been popular with the players. Rumors of player discontent with him have circulated for the last couple of years. Justin Harrison and Dan Vickerman joined the Waratahs this season to escape him.

Now it seems the players have had their way. And he's out. Nucifora knows the truth - that the players are largely responsible for his sacking. How poisonous is the atmosphere going to be between coach and players for the rest of the season?

	08-04-2004 16:49									#460
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quote: Originally posted by finbar A home game, obviously.

Yes it is!

The Stadium de Toulouse will be full as the 38,000 tickets have already been sold.

	08-04-2004 19:33									#461
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quote: Originally posted by finbar So the inevitable has happened. The Brumbies, six points clear at the top of the S12 table, with a little less than half the season remaining, have announced that coach David Nucifora's contract won't be renewed next season. The stated reason? He was employed to develop new, young talent. According to the club, he has done that successfully. Now, though, they don't think he's the right person to take that new, young talent to the next level. The truth? The Brumbies are an organisation in which the players have much to say in the running of the place. Nucifora's frank, blunt manner has never been popular with the players. Rumors of player discontent with him have circulated for the last couple of years. Justin Harrison and Dan Vickerman joined the Waratahs this season to escape him. Now it seems the players have had their way. And he's out. Nucifora knows the truth - that the players are largely responsible for his sacking. How poisonous is the atmosphere going to be between coach and players for the rest of the season?

Well I wouldn't expect it to be too healthy, that's for sure. Who knows whether it will negatively affect their performance on the field...I for one hope so

Who would you blame for these problems Finbar? The players or the coach? As an outside observer I would probably be more inclined to blame the players because whatever the coach has been doing has been working pretty well so far for the Brumbies. They are a pretty well structured unit for the most part, and that must surely be due to some good coaching. Plus, the Brumbies players have a few egos among them, and egoists don't like to be told what to do.

	09-04-2004 06:31									#462
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The Brumbies have had a Player Power culture from the outset. When the franchise started, it consisted mainly of players who had been rejected for various reasons by NSW and Queensland, often as a result of bad judgement by those states. A very deliberate attitude of "us versus them" - Brumbies -v- Everyone Else (including the ARU) - was developed as a motivational weapon.

Rod Macqueen, the first Brumbies coach, was instrumental in forging the culture, along with including the players in most of the decision-making processes. The players weren't just paid employees, they had a big say in how the franchise was run - off-field and on-field. It was unique, and it worked. Even if it had its downsides - player arrogance, amongst other things.

Eddie Jones, who followed Macqueen as coach, maintained the same culture to a large - but not complete - extent. He trod a fine line, incorporating the players in the on-field decision making, reserving the right to have final say. It worked for Eddie because the players respected him enormously as a coach.

David Nucifora is a very different personality. He's not inclusive, he likes things done his way. Regardless of what one thinks of the Brumbie culture, he was never going to fit in. He was, with hindsight, a bad choice. The players started by resenting his breaking down of their on-field input. That led to them deciding he was a lousy coach. Players - Harrison, Vickerman and others - quit. Others tried to quit. The only surprise is that Nucifora lasted this long.

It's impossible to judge how good a coach he is. The Brumbies are an enormously talented squad who know their game backwards. Arguably, they could coach themselves. And some of the senior Brumbie players claim they have been coaching themselves.

Where does the fault lie? Depends how you feel about player empowerment, or at least the extent of it. Judged in terms of on-field success, it has worked for the franchise. Would they have had the same success with a different culture? Given the quality of the players, yes.

It was a culture that helped them enormously in the early days when they were looked down on by Australian rugby as a bunch of cast-offs. And they were quite genuinely sneered at. It bonded them and galvanised them. Whether they need it these days is another matter.

Havak will chuckle at their preferred choice of coach. An old Brumbie who knows the culture inside out and will stick to it - Rodney Kafer.

	09-04-2004 07:22									#463
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Interesting...I had no idea the players were as involved as that. That's fair enough though if that's what works for them.

I wonder why David Nucifora was appointed in the first place? Whoever made the decision must have been ignorant of either Nucifora's style, or the culture of player power within the Brumbies.

	09-04-2004 09:51									#464
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He was appointed by the Brumbies' hierarchy who understood the franchise's culture. Nucifora is a former Wallaby hooker, club coach in Brisbane and Australian U21s coach. He was always seen as an up and coming coach. And history shows that, in coaching terms, he's done absolutely nothing wrong at the Brumbies - a S12 final in his first year, a S12 semi-final in his second year, and they'd have to be favourites this year. His mistake was getting on the wrong side of a number of senior players by not letting them run the ship as much as they had in the past.

	09-04-2004 16:57									#465
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Blues 56 -d- Bulls 19

Carlos doing his razzle dazzle thing. Today he went beyond the clever to the needlessly arrogant. A quick throw was taken deep in the Bulls' half. The ball was thrown to Carlos, who double-handed it straight over his head - without looking - towards one of his backs, with the Bulls thundering towards the player. What possesses him? He got away with it - and a few other similarly arrogant things - today. But sooner or later it's going to cost him and the team. That said, a couple of his contributions were sheer genius.

For some reason, the Bulls opted against their strength - exploiting their size and strength - and spent too much time trying to play the Blues at their own game. Big mistake. When they applied pressure through their size and strength, the Blues looked shaky. Ultimately, they couldn't contain Carlos and Rokococo. Regardless, the Blues aren't the complete outfit they were last season. They're the Carlos and Rokococo high-risk rugby show.

Brumbies 50 -d- Highlanders 18

The Brumbies, in this form, are what the Blues were last season - the complete outfit. Forever potent, controlled risk. The off-field dramas didn't bother them. As commentator Greg Martin opined: those sorts of things rarely bother sportsmen on the field because professional sportsmen only ever think of themselves first, second and third.

	10-04-2004 01:10									#466
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Interesting to see how some good and successful coaches can be sacked by their players. The same happened in France to Berbizier during the '95 World Cup. The players ended up training without the coach... He still had done a good job, but human relations didn't work. He was very authoritative, too, and bent on discipline. In comparison, Laporte would have left but the French players (and the powers that be) asked him to stay.

	10-04-2004 07:06									#467
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Yes, it's an interesting phenomenon. And a worrying one, particularly in the case of the Brumbies where the players are clearly running the organisation. The management, announcing that Nucifora's contract wouldn't be renewed, waffled on very unconvincingly about the coach having done the job he was employed to do but that someone else was needed to take the young players to the next level. Absolute crap. The players wanted him out, and management bowed to their wishes. Everyone knows the truth but the Brumbie management made themselves a laughing stock by inventing other reasons for the decision. The Brumbies' players are player/managers of the franchise. Presumably they will only accept a new coach who accepts that the players run the show. A worrying precedent.

	10-04-2004 15:03									#468
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The thing that amazed me about the Blues v Bulls game was after all the heavy tackling (surpising for an S12 game), after all the players had left the field, Kees Meeuws and the Bulls prop were still out there discussing the intricacies of front row play. Brilliant.

	10-04-2004 17:45									#469
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Yes, I saw that too. Great stuff. I read somewhere that Kees started a Fine Arts course. It didn't say whether he finished it.

Stormers 21 -d- Reds 20

Another match in which both sides tried very hard to hand the win to the oppo. The Reds are an unimaginative, error-ridden team who really need to examine why, with some good talent in the team, they so often end up playing schoolboy stuff. The Stormers' work rate does them proud. They're still in the top four, and if they stay there, they'll be making up the numbers.

	10-04-2004 21:54									#470
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Here finbar will be glad to hear that his favourite French player scored a try and played quite well in Toulouse's game against a weak Edinbourg side. Those Scots really need to invent something to get out of the hole they're sinking into.
Biarritz also made it to the half finals, so the European cup will see a French finalist, either Toulouse or Biarritz.
A nice match from Toulouse, with good performance from the pack and Heymans on his wing.

	11-04-2004 03:09									#471
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Stade Toulousain 36 - Edinburgh Rugby 10

The Toulousains have played without Jean-Baptiste Ellissalde (half-scrum) and Frédéric Michalack (fly-half) and have alternated the good and the bad, to the point I was becoming worried until the second Toulousain try after which the machine started to roll over the Scottish players. The first twenty minutes of the first half was very good and the second twenty minutes were rather dull from the Stade Toulousain's side, Edinburgh scored a try at the worst time just before the half-time coming back to 10-7. The first twenty minutes of the second half were not good neither but the last twenty minutes saw Toulouse at its best.

A curious thing, Vincent Clerc (winger) replaced Dupuy as half-scrum and scored a typical half-scrum try.

	11-04-2004 03:14									#472
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yes, I saw that too. Great stuff. I read somewhere that Kees started a Fine Arts course. It didn't say whether he finished it.

A five minutes talk, at best, is largely enough to sum up the whole subject in the Southern Hemisphere.

	11-04-2004 06:21									#473
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Here finbar will be glad to hear that his favourite French player scored a try and played quite well in Toulouse's game against a weak Edinbourg side.

Did she ladder a stocking in the process?

	11-04-2004 06:23									#474
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Stade Toulousain 36 - Edinburgh Rugby 10

Only 26 points? Talk about under-performing.

	11-04-2004 06:24									#475
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin A five minutes talk, at best, is largely enough to sum up the whole subject in the Southern Hemisphere.

Yes, they were discussing the merits of NH rugby, and had to repeat themselves several times to get to five minutes.

	11-04-2004 13:43									#476
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy ... Kees Meeuws and the Bulls prop were still out there discussing the intricacies of front row play. Brilliant.

	11-04-2004 13:47									#477
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Only 26 points? Talk about under-performing.

Just like beating the Cats by less than 50 points should result in the firing of the coach.

Speaking of which Pretorius & co. seem to have finally sorted themselves out and beaten a jet-lagged Chiefs outfit. Gee, the Chiefs looked very tired, though.

	11-04-2004 17:14									#478
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I didn't see any of it, but I saw quite a bit of the Crusaders match. They looked weary too. Bloody long way over there from NZ. It was the problem the Waratahs faced - travelling from SA to NZ in the space of a week.

Tamerlin, of course, who only attends home games, knows nothing of the effects of travel on the human body.

	11-04-2004 19:48									#479
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Tamerlin, of course, who only attends home games, knows nothing of the effects of travel on the human body.

Wrong, I used to follow the Stade Toulousain away from home and I am still travelling during the final phases to the exception of the final itself because I hate the Stade de France.

	12-04-2004 07:08									#480
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Yeah yeah, a likely story. Now what's this I read about your girlie winger getting into biffo with the Edinburgh physio? Didn't fancy taking on a burly Edinburgh prop so she picked on their physio?