26-03-2004 15:26									#361
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin True, France has the means to win but they have not shown much skill, especially the backs. The French team can boast that they certainly have the best defense but they should remember that while it is a good thing to prevent the opponent from scoring the goal of the game is still to score more points than the other team. I know that France can beat the English in Paris but if England play the way it has played in last twenty minutes against Wales... France will lose as our backs are unable to score.

Yes, but les black puddings have hardly been waking the scoreboard attendants from their slumbers recently. Cripes, it could be a nil-all draw.

	27-03-2004 02:13									#362
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quote: True, France has the means to win but they have not shown much skill, especially the backs.

I don't think it's lack of skills as much as lack of coordination. Traille and Jauzion started showing they knew how to play together. Michalak is better when not following a plan, and Elhorga and Brusque obviously don't anticipate one another actions properly. If they worked and talked together more, they might be able to attack better. I don't think they've had time to work that however.
I believe that putting a lot of pressure on Olly will be the way to go (sending Magne and Harinordoquy charging him with the ball a few times for instance). Kicks should make sure to aim the lineout the opposite side from Robinson.
The big problem for France is probably Yachvili. If Dawson puts pressure on him, he'll start kicking like crazy, and should he give the ball to Robinson, bad things may ensue.

Flipside: Make sure to win by lots of points just in case.
But beware. Despite being abysmal almost everywhere, the Scots will be motivated and are rather good in lineouts. Their hooker will probably not throw towards O'Kelly.

	27-03-2004 02:28									#363
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare I don't think it's lack of skills as much as lack of coordination.

Though I think you are right (most of the players make a good performance each week with their own club) I still think that our players are less technical than those of the other major nations. A few years ago the players from the Southern Hemisphere were far superior to us in the physical area, the Northern nations thus put the emphasis on this matter in order to get on par with the aliens coming from the other side of the world. As far as France is concerned I think that our coaches became so obsessed by the physical power of the players that they lessened the technical workload in order to increase the physical training... something we are paying nowadays.

quote: Michalak is better when not following a plan...

Unfortunately, Bernard Laporte seems to be very rigid on this ground and I think that he is somehow punishing the players that are taking too much personal initiatives.

quote: I believe that putting a lot of pressure on Olly will be the way to go (sending Magne and Harinordoquy charging him with the ball a few times for instance).

Isn't it Serge Betsen's job?

quote: The big problem for France is probably Yachvili. If Dawson puts pressure on him, he'll start kicking like crazy, and should he give the ball to Robinson, bad things may ensue.

You tell me so!

	27-03-2004 05:35									#364
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Look, I don't care how you do it, just beat them!

That aside, an interesting snippet in the press this morning. Jonny Wilkinson made a quick trip to New Zealand this week to talk to winger Rupeni Caucaunibuca about joining Newcastle in the English league. Having represented Fiji, Caucau can't represent the All Blacks, his S12 salary with the Auckland Blues is only around $NZ75,000, topped up by about $NZ20,000 from his club payments. The NZRFU has refused to increase his money and he has knocked back an extension of his contract at the end of this year. Lord knows what he could earn in the NH.

Oh, and a couple of French clubs are chasing him, too.

	27-03-2004 14:32									#365
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quote: Originally posted by finbar That aside, an interesting snippet in the press this morning. Jonny Wilkinson...

You mean Sir Johnny Wilkinson...

quote: ...made a quick trip to New Zealand this week to talk to winger Rupeni Caucaunibuca about joining Newcastle in the English league. Having represented Fiji, Caucau can't represent the All Blacks, his S12 salary with the Auckland Blues is only around $NZ75,000, topped up by about $NZ20,000 from his club payments. The NZRFU has refused to increase his money and he has knocked back an extension of his contract at the end of this year. Lord knows what he could earn in the NH. Oh, and a couple of French clubs are chasing him, too.

Why recruiting players coming from the other side of the world?

We have so many young players waiting to be given an opportunity to show what they can do... and moreover we have to train young players for the national team.

That said NZ$75,000 does not seem very high for a player of this level, I think that he can easily double or triple his monthly salary in the Northern Hemisphere... if not more.

	27-03-2004 14:32									#366
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quote: Isn't it Serge Betsen's job?

No, Betsen's job is to tackle Olly when Olly has the ball. The idea is that the other third rowers, instead of rushing into a strong big experienced English forward would be better inspired to run straight towards Olly so he tackles them, presumably opening a hole for Michalak and the centers to play into.

	27-03-2004 14:43									#367
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare No, Betsen's job is to tackle Olly when Olly has the ball.

What an awful mistake of mine, I have mixed up things here, Serge Betsen's job is of course to chase and tackle the Fly Half...

quote: ...in this caseThe idea is that the other third rowers, instead of rushing into a strong big experienced English forward would be better inspired to run straight towards Olly so he tackles them, presumably opening a hole for Michalak and the centers to play into.

This is what were saying two of the coaches in the Midi Olympique, it will be interesting to see if they will do it and how the English will try to counter them.

	27-03-2004 17:27									#368
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Why recruiting players coming from the other side of the world?

Quick fixes. Trying to buy success.

quote: That said NZ$75,000 does not seem very high for a player of this level, I think that he can easily double or triple his monthly salary in the Northern Hemisphere... if not more.

That's the whole point. Relatively speaking, the Kiwi S12 money isn't all that good. Those who also play for the ABs obviously earn a lot more on top of their S12 money. But Caucau is in fiscal no man's land in the sense that he's tied to playing rep rugby for Fiji, they're pretty much bankrupt, and they don't play many Tests. So staying in New Zealand means he can't earn any more than he's currently earning. He would earn at least four times more in the NH. There's no doubt he'll go to the NH, it's just a matter of with whom.

Allez Les Grenouilles!

	28-03-2004 01:47									#369
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Ireland beat Scotland, which surprised noone. The surprising thing is that the Scots managed to get back to 16-16 after the half time. They ended up taking 37 points if I've counted well.
Now...
Half time France 21 England 3.
I must make a few apologies over Yachvili. He scored a very very neat scrum half try right after the English finally managed to score 3 points, and just before the half time, which is good for morale. Let's hope the French keep playing well.

	28-03-2004 02:41									#370
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Wheeew... France 24 - 21 England
A nice comeback from the English in the second half. I bet Havak will find the referee to have been laxist. The English players certainly did, shouting "Who's calling the offside?" and arguing with the ref and touch judes. Nothing unusual, though. The French probably made mistakes that weren't whistled, but none that warranted a red card (hint).

	28-03-2004 03:39									#371
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got back about 30 minutes ago from watching it, we just left ourselves with too much to do in the second half, it could have all been so different if someone had bothered covering the blindside just before the break

	28-03-2004 05:10									#372
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Wheeew... France 24 - 21 England A nice comeback from the English in the second half. I bet Havak will find the referee to have been laxist. The English players certainly did, shouting "Who's calling the offside?" and arguing with the ref and touch judes. Nothing unusual, though. The French probably made mistakes that weren't whistled, but none that warranted a red card (hint).

I've only heard the scores and brief summaries of the game. It sounds like you almost let it slip! And, presumably, Tamerlin will prefer to walk backwards, naked to Paris before he'll thank the little Romanian or Georgian or wherever he's from for saving his backside.

Havak? Complain about a ref? Never ...

	28-03-2004 05:13									#373
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I must admit I was very surprised by Dimitri Yachvili who produce a very good performance today until the last twenty minutes when he started to play as before and became once again the ordinary player I have always complained about... Very curious...

IMO the French players started to underestimate the English and commited the sin of pride when they lost an important scrum near the English try line in the second half. Though the French team was still leading something like 24-6 I became worried because I felt they were overconfident...

	28-03-2004 06:58									#374
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Still, the most important thing is that, unlike last time, they turned up to play!

	28-03-2004 12:11									#375
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Still, the game showed that Clive made several big coaching mistakes. Letting Grewcock play when his back obviously ached just led to a first penalty. Not having Catt enter sooner was also a mistake, as he tried to use Tindall to relieve pressure on Barkley, but Tindall doesn't really kick as well as Catt.
The French almost lost the game because they were quite unable to keep the ball in some rucks and mauls in the secnd half. A lack in protection of the ball which clearly cost the first try.

A comment about Ireland-Scotland: The most annoying thing for Scotland is that, although their tactics were okay, the individual performances of the players, particularly at tackling, were quite poor. This means the Scots simply lack skilled players, and I can't see new ones pop out of nowhere anytime soon. Whereas the Welsh can improve their defense, the Scots seem unable to do so, so I believe they'll still be in for the last place in th tournament next year unless of a miracle.

	28-03-2004 13:53									#376
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare The French almost lost the game because they were quite unable to keep the ball in some rucks and mauls in the secnd half. A lack in protection of the ball which clearly cost the first try.

You are right, the lack of support to the bearer of the ball could have been fatal.

	29-03-2004 06:47									#377
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I gather M'sieur Laporte said he'd had telegrams of support from the Australian and New Zealand coaches prior to the game! He'd better reciprocate later in the year!

	29-03-2004 12:29									#378
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I gather M'sieur Laporte said he'd had telegrams of support from the Australian and New Zealand coaches prior to the game! He'd better reciprocate later in the year!

I don't know but Jean-Pierre Rives said he was congratulated by John Eales, as if he were for something in this Grand Slam...

By the way, a big Boo to France Télévision, the game was so badly shot by the cameramen that we all had the feeling of not having seen anything of this game (and this had nothing to do with the beers). The cameramen were always zooming on the bearer of the ball (when they were not shooting the crowd or the staffs) which means we almost never had any perspective of the field and thus of the various lines. Abysmal...

	29-03-2004 17:51									#379
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The country that gave the world New Wave cinema can't even cover a rugby match? The horror. The horror.

	29-03-2004 20:28									#380
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The country that gave the world New Wave cinema can't even cover a rugby match? The horror. The horror.

IMO the lead cameraman was not the usual one and was certainly more used to s*****, a sport that obviously does not need any real skill from the TV technicians.

	29-03-2004 20:56									#381
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Did you see any Super 12 Finbar? I got to see the Blues draw with the Hurricanes and the Crusaders win over the Highlanders. Looks like the South Island teams are NZ's best hope for winning the Super 12 this year. The Chiefs are also in with a chance (I heard they beat the Waratahs), but I'd say the Blues are pretty much finished.

	30-03-2004 06:25									#382
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I thought the Blues and the Hurricanes were both scrappy. The Blues obviously miss Carlos - he could be back this week - but they weren't doing much even prior to his injury. And this will be Caucau's last season with them.

I thought the Crusaders did their best work for the season against the Highlanders. They're gradually getting it back together. Unless Carlos turns the Blues around in a big way, the Crusaders would seem to be NZ's best chance.

The Chiefs beat the Waratahs. Hard to know what's going on with the Waratahs. I've never seen them so flat. They travelled back from SA and on to NZ within the week which is a very long haul. Even the normally relentless Phil Waugh looked flat. And he coughed up the ball with basic handling errors, which is unlike him. They're obviously missing the inspiration of Matt Rogers who was in blinding form before his injury. They have the Blues this week. A big test. They won't be able to blame jet lag.

The Brumbies returned to their best against the Reds. They were like a machine. And the key to it is Gregan. Without the captaincy to worry about, he's playing like he did 5 and 6 years ago. Unless they blow it, I can see the Brumbies first, daylight second.

	30-03-2004 13:00									#383
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Eh? The French side didn’t become over confident at all – England simply started playing at last.

I think on balance France are worthy winners of the slam (the big blue wash as it literally translates). You can’t go to France and not play in the first half and hope to win. I bet the French lads were nervous in the dying seconds though – France were under huge pressure and could very easily have lost it all.

It was hugely annoying for me as I was sat at the opposite end to all the tries – but I must admit I was pleased to see France the one’s scoring from speculative crossfield kicks and opponent’s mistakes whilst England were the ones running through the opposing defence – it was totally against what we were supposed to believe about the two sides wasn’t it. French flair not in evidence – but French forward power very much so.

Despite it all I don’t give France much of a chance next year at twickers – just sneaking home in Paris against an England side bereft of experience – twelve months down the line you are ours again.

And now some general observations about Stade de France.

1) When you build an 80000 seater stadium try to build enough toilets to support it.
2) Sort out the problems at the entrances – a crush developed outside gate L and I could do nothing to protect young children near me from the pressure. Send the Stade officials down to Sydney so they can see how ground entrance should be managed.
3) Get Professional policemen – in the middle of this crowd crush some stupid Bleu fan tried to drive his beat up old Citroen van through it. Had his doors not been locked he would no longer be a bleu fan – believe me on this. The paramilitary muppets searching everyone going into the ground stood by and watched him do it. In England he would have been arrested very promptly – and rightly so.

So where are France touring this summer? Surely they now fly the flag for world rugby? Clive on the other hand is taking the same team (with the same weaknesses) to NZ and Aus

My choice for the cull? Worseley, Vickery, Thompson, Woodman, Borthwick, Regan, Greenwood and possibly Robinson (does too little per game). Move Hill back to Six where he belongs, dump Dally and lets take some young lads with us instead.

At least England’s misfortunes are Tiger’s fortunes – since Martin retook the captaincy we remain unbeaten in the League (back to back wins over Quins in the last week).

	30-03-2004 13:22									#384
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Welcome back! I was worried you might finish up elected to one of the Leftist local governments!

quote: And now some general observations about Stade de France. 1) When you build an 80000 seater stadium try to build enough toilets to support it.

Or, OTOH, don't let in copious drinkers who need to wee every ten minutes.

quote: So where are France touring this summer? Surely they now fly the flag for world rugby?

Probably Namibia, Georgia and Tazikstan.

quote: Clive on the other hand is taking the same team (with the same weaknesses) to NZ and Aus

Goodoh. Look forward to it.

quote: My choice for the cull? Worseley, Vickery, Thompson, Woodman, Borthwick, Regan, Greenwood and possibly Robinson (does too little per game). Move Hill back to Six where he belongs, dump Dally and lets take some young lads with us instead.

Jeepers. You've only lost (by which I mean permanently) J****, Back and Leonard from the WRC team. Were the others imposters? Or, more to the point, carried - or lifted - by one or two others?

	30-03-2004 15:34									#385
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You know there was almost no sign that the polls were open whilst we were there. Delighted to see the Socialists doing so well of course.

quote: Or, OTOH, don't let in copious drinkers who need to wee every ten minutes.

Once. At half time. And there appear to be just eight small facilities around the ‘base’ level of the ground – wholly inadequate for any visiting UK fan of any nationality therein.

Mind you this is typical of France in general – one cubicle serving a bar with a capacity of 500 people. Of course, and don’t tell them this, thats breaks all sorts of EU directives (as does their habit of having kitchens below ground level next to rest rooms and with only one door on those rest rooms!!).

quote: Goodoh. Look forward to it.

You have good reason to.

It may be a new skipper too after Dally criticised both the Personnel and defensive tactic changes made by CW after the RWC.

quote: Jeepers. You've only lost (by which I mean permanently) J****, Back and Leonard from the WRC team

Players featuring Saturday and also not in the RWC winning 22:

Barkeley, Grewcock, Worseley, Regan, Borthwick, Gomersall, Simpson-Daniel.

More than three.

However you are right to point out the core is the same and pose the question of what they were. The quality of leadership is not the same that’s for sure – and a lot of senior players seem to have had extended RWC hangovers. Dally tries his best but he doesn’t capture the same kind of attention his predecessor did and some players seem to stray from their roles – why Woodman believes he can link as a centre escapes me – he killed several good moves for us and leaked penalties like a sieve. Bring back Rowntree!!

J stated again this weekend he was entirely comfortable with his decision. It’s such a shame – he is still in imperious form and with Grewcock going off so early in the game it left Kay carrying the totally inadequate Borthwick…

Did you get the highlights – the Harinordoquoy try was vintage Ben Cohen with a crossfield kick to a big man.

*edit* On a side note Laporte was extremely impressed with the way the English team stayed on the pitch and clapped throughout the presentations and celebrations (that took 20 minutes!). Our boys must have been gutted knowing how close they came so I am glad they observed the forms.

	30-03-2004 18:51									#386
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Once. At half time. And there appear to be just eight small facilities around the ‘base’ level of the ground – wholly inadequate for any visiting UK fan of any nationality therein.

Mmmmm. Makes you wonder about the size of the average French bladder.

quote: Mind you this is typical of France in general – one cubicle serving a bar with a capacity of 500 people. Of course, and don’t tell them this, thats breaks all sorts of EU directives (as does their habit of having kitchens below ground level next to rest rooms and with only one door on those rest rooms!!).

And usually holes in the ground!

quote: It may be a new skipper too after Dally criticised both the Personnel and defensive tactic changes made by CW after the RWC.

Well, he's a proven idiot, after all.

quote: Players featuring Saturday and also not in the RWC winning 22: Barkeley, Grewcock, Worseley, Regan, Borthwick, Gomersall, Simpson-Daniel. More than three.

Yes, but some of them were in the RWC squad, weren't they? So they were, um, in the frame.

quote: However you are right to point out the core is the same and pose the question of what they were. The quality of leadership is not the same that’s for sure – and a lot of senior players seem to have had extended RWC hangovers.

I think they were a team of mainly good - some very good - one (apart from the skipper) great - professional players who were glued together, guided, lifted and driven by a mighty talented and inspiring skipper. The whole was greater than the sum of the parts. Now you're left with the parts. And the real test of Clive's abilities begins.

quote: J stated again this weekend he was entirely comfortable with his decision. It’s such a shame – he is still in imperious form and with Grewcock going off so early in the game it left Kay carrying the totally inadequate Borthwick…

Yes well, he took a leaf from Eales' book. And Eales was even younger. The thing is, whether it was this year or next year, it was going to happen. I assume life after J**** was canvassed by the authorities. The problem is, once in a generation players come along only that often.

quote: Did you get the highlights – the Harinordoquoy try was vintage Ben Cohen with a crossfield kick to a big man.

Yes, and I don't know how that little Frenchman whom Tamerlin frequently bags was allowed to sneak his try up the sideline.

quote: *edit* On a side note Laporte was extremely impressed with the way the English team stayed on the pitch and clapped throughout the presentations and celebrations (that took 20 minutes!). Our boys must have been gutted knowing how close they came so I am glad they observed the forms.

Only in rugby. In L*****, you see, they'd've been off the field, showered and changed and looking for girls to molest.

	30-03-2004 19:21									#387
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quote: Originally posted by finbar And usually holes in the ground!

We call them WC Turcs... and hopefully they tend to disappear.

quote: Yes, but some of them were in the RWC squad, weren't they? So they were, um, in the frame.

Some French players were not member of the RWC squad neither, Fabien Galthié and Ibanez have left the team and are not what we can name second rate players.

quote: Only in rugby. In L*****, you see, they'd've been off the field, showered and changed and looking for girls to molest.

quote: 1) When you build an 80000 seater stadium try to build enough toilets to support it.

You can tell me what you want I already know that this Stade de France s*cks especially when you compare it to our dear old Parc des Princes. I have been in Saint-Denis twice and I don't want to go back there. Give us back the Parc des Princes or build us a stadium where you can hear the crowd and feel the heat of a Rugby game, whether it is an international game or a final of the French championship .

	31-03-2004 03:51									#388
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin We call them WC Turcs... and hopefully they tend to disappear.

Every tiny bar and every tiny restaurant in every tiny town has one!

quote: Some French players were not member of the RWC squad neither, Fabien Galthié and Ibanez have left the team and are not what we can name second rate players.

And that idiot winger who got himself carded in the WRC semi?

	31-03-2004 12:52									#389
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quote: Makes you wonder about the size of the average French bladder.

I don’t think they are big drinkers.

quote: The whole was greater than the sum of the parts. Now you're left with the parts. And the real test of Clive's abilities begins.

And the initial worrying signs are that he is moving in the wrong directions with the composition of the squad. I argued last Sunday that it might be time to get really radical – given Clive just got his worst ever placing in the 6N I think it is perfect timing to sweep away the dead wood and bring in real youth – the Woods, Ellis and Smiths of this world.

quote: The problem is, once in a generation players come along only that often.

If only it could be more often.

quote: Yes, and I don't know how that little Frenchman whom Tamerlin frequently bags was allowed to sneak his try up the sideline.

An opportunistic try from a defensive mistake – as I said the game went totally against stereotype with both Cohen’s and Lewsey’s tries resulting from well worked offensive plays.

As for ‘WC Turcs’ – fortunately there are less of them in the cities every time I go. But bizarrely they still have them in the Departure lounges at CDG!

quote: Give us back the Parc des Princes or build us a stadium where you can hear the crowd and feel the heat of a Rugby game

You have a good point – the stands are a long long way away from the pitch in places – it’s almost as bad as the Colonial Stadium in Melbourne for that (now renamed after a new sponsor).

Galthie and Ibanez were certainly losses – although the absence of Marsh only seems to have produced a new young talent for France. But the strength France had was that their back five in the pack was intact for most of the 6N – including that formidable back row combination. Egotistical Clive dropped the one player we needed most in Paris (Back), played a blindside not up to the job (Worseley) and dropped a man into openside who lacks the necessary guile (Hill). At my most cynical I almost think Clive wanted everything to fall apart so he had carte blanche to clean house after the tournament. But would he be that stupid?

It was Dominici who got carded in the semi incidentally – and he seems to be yesterdays man now. What did he do this tournament except drop the ball over the try line?

In all this though lets not get carried away – England are in absolute disarray and yet still came within three points of a very good French side in Paris. We can turn it around. Jonno for England coach?

	31-03-2004 15:44									#390
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It was Dominici who got carded in the semi incidentally – and he seems to be yesterdays man now. What did he do this tournament except drop the ball over the try line?

IMO Dominici would have not been selected in the French team wouldn't he be playing for the Stade Français. As Vincent Clerc in the previous games he only had a few balls to play and mainly gave support to the other players... but IMO again less well than Vincent Clerc.

quote: In all this though lets not get carried away – England are in absolute disarray and yet still came within three points of a very good French side in Paris. We can turn it around. Jonno for England coach?

In absolute disarray? May be are you exaggerating a bit. I prefer to think, and you know how honest I am, that the English players were peharps overwhelmed by the skill, power and talent of the French players for one hour.

quote: I don’t think they are big drinkers.

The beverages we are intoxicating ourselves with are more refined and sophisticated than the diuretic beers and ales you anglo-saxons are drinking all day long. :uttercontempt: