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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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(copy in current diplo thread)
quote:
{14:28} {MasterZen} ok, now that we're all here
{14:28} {MasterZen} let me put up our side of the agenda:
{14:28} {Cort} ok
{14:28} {MasterZen} 1) tech trades (including early industrial)
{14:28} {MasterZen} 2) discussion on the Lego screenshot
{14:29} {MasterZen} 3) geo-strategy 
{14:29} {MasterZen} and of course, anything else you guys want to discuss
{14:29} {Cort} sounds good
{14:29} {asleepathewheel} great
{14:30} {asleepathewheel} Is someone logging this, and can we get a copy afterwards
{14:30} {MasterZen} I am logging
{14:30} {MasterZen} I can e-mail you guys a copy no problem
{14:30} {Cort} cool 
{14:30} {MasterZen} oh boy, guess who's coming...
{14:31} * Trip has joined #GoW_CoFA
{14:31} {Cort} :gasp:
{14:31} {aggie} hi mr eye
{14:31} {Trip} greets
{14:31} {Trip} what've I missed 
{14:31} {Trip}
{14:31} * MasterZen pokes the eye with a toothpick
{14:32} {aggie} we just agree that we'd all vote for lux for the UN victory congrats
{14:32} {MasterZen} yeah, Lux, you really showed us how to play civ
{14:32} {Trip} yay
{14:32} {Cort} so, item #1 - tech trades
{14:32} {MasterZen} yes
{14:32} {Trip} the ISDG teams did it worse than me
{14:33} {aggie} indeed
{14:33} {MasterZen} I'm not sure if there's anything left to trade in the medieval.
Just an interesting note thoguh: Vox will get a free tech
{14:33} {Cort} Indeed
{14:33} {Cort} Zayxus, do you wish to offer us anything for Physics?
{14:33} {MasterZen} well, there's still Economics and Theory of Gravity, perhaps we
can trade these
{14:34} {Cort} When Lego build Smiths, Economics becomes as useful as Music Theory
{14:34} {MasterZen} it's still a required tech though, isn't it?
{14:34} {Zayxus} well , physics has a price, let me see...
{14:35} {aggie} isn't eco required though for next age though
{14:35} {Cort} btw - they started Magellans in Jackson (Lego)
{14:35} {MasterZen} perhaps a pre-build?
{14:35} {aggie} i imagine it must be a place holder
{14:35} {Cort} - or about to finish it, if it's a Palace prebuild, as we suspect.
It'll fire their GA
{14:35} {Cort} no Eco aint mandatory
{14:35} {aggie} just what we don't need
{14:35} {MasterZen} then it's just ToG
{14:36} {Cort} We'll have that soon
{14:36} {aggie} we'll we have mt soon
{14:36} {Cort} ok
{14:36} {Cort} How about a 3-way on Nat, Steam, and Medicine?
{14:37} {MasterZen} sounds like a plan. Although perhaps we might want to research
Steam ASAP
{14:37} {aggie} i am eager to see where coal is too
{14:37} {MasterZen} perhaps a 3-way collaboration on Steam, and then each of us do
the next 3 techs
{14:38} {Trip} I know
{14:38} {Cort} The fastest way for you to see Steam is to research Medicine and
Trade it for our Steam.
{14:38} {Cort} I mean see coal
{14:38} * MasterZen hasn't looked at the industrial tech tree in a looooong time
{14:39} {aggie} i ahve but for conquest not ptw
{14:39} {MasterZen} hehe, the only C3C game I've played since the beta is AU501
{14:40} {MasterZen} and I'm still not in the industrial
{14:40} {Cort} The tree is in my head
{14:40} {Cort} - and in front of me
{14:41} * MasterZen wonders what free tech Vox will get
{14:41} {Cort} Nat, hopefully
{14:41} {MasterZen} i'd prefer they get Medicine actually...
{14:41} {MasterZen} you know who they're going to give it to afterall..
{14:41} {Zayxus} to GS: for Physics: 600 Beaker or Gold as offer
{14:42} {MasterZen} see this is the thing. The quicker we get Steam, the quicker we
can also get Industrialization
{14:43} {Cort} Zayxus - is that an offer of 600g for Physics?
{14:43} {Zayxus} yes.
{14:43} {Cort} MZ - fine, we understand. Is that a Uni Suff prebuild in Imperial
there?
{14:44} {Cort} Zaxyus - we'll put that to our Forum,
{14:44} {aggie} good question wish i knew the answer
{14:44} {MasterZen} by definition, GoWers are not affected by WW
{14:45} {MasterZen} in fact we suffer reverse-WW. If we are not at war for too
long, our people get restless. THAT's the real reason we attacked RP. Just don't
tell anyone
{14:45} {aggie} well at least our players do
{14:46} {MasterZen} especially H_E and GF
{14:46} {Cort} Hows this, MZ. Our Steam for Your Medicine, then our electricity for
your industrialisation
{14:46} {Cort} aggie - you'd better go attack Lego then
{14:46} {aggie} well i'm a man who just wants piece
{14:47} {MasterZen} sounds like an idea Cort
{14:47} {Cort} a piece of Lego, a piece of Stormia, yeajh I know
{14:47} {MasterZen} on both accounts
{14:47} {Cort} THen ND, once we bring 'em up can do Nat and trade us that for Steam
and Medicine
{14:48} {Zayxus} (to Cort: all right)
{14:49} {MasterZen} what about the Vox tech? Maybe we can trade something and get
it easier...
{14:49} {aggie} first we need vox up to dfate
{14:49} {Cort} We're assuming Vox are working for Lego
{14:49} {MasterZen} of course
{14:50} {Cort} so we're not trading them physics for demo, for example, before Lego
have Physics
{14:50} {aggie} but with NDA's it mightwork. I wonder what tech lego is doing
{14:50} {MasterZen} that brings us to part 2)
{14:50} {MasterZen} Lego is doing 10% research
{14:50} * MasterZen goes to look at the screenie
{14:50} {Cort} Guys, the key is for all of us 3 teams is to keep Lego out of the
tech loop, and make them research everything themselves
{14:50} {Cort} MZ - still at 10% - that was 2/3 turmns ago
{14:50} {aggie} agreed
{14:51} {Cort} Lego finished off Economics that turn, according to the beaker
count, so they may have been able to hold back the slider for the last turn
{14:51} {Cort} Aggie - excellent!
{14:52} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{14:52} {Cort} We haven't traded a single tech, or our second lux to Lego because
we want to delay them economically
{14:52} * Trip has joined #gow_cofa
{14:53} {MasterZen} after they finish the Sistine and JS Bachs they won't even need
luxes
{14:53} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{14:53} {asleepathewheel} assuming they ever finish sistine
{14:53} {MasterZen} ahhhhhh
{14:53} {asleepathewheel} ah yes, the perpetual prebuild
{14:53} {Cort} Hey shall we talk about THAT
{14:54} {asleepathewheel} I wonder if they knew that going in, or just noticed the
loophole later
{14:54} {MasterZen} yeah what the hell
{14:54} * Trip has joined #gow_cofa
{14:54} {MasterZen} you connection is a piece of crap Trip, even worse than mine
{14:55} {Cort} If they switch it to Smiths, the rest of the teams should put out a
joint statement saying the deal on Sistine is over. No-one traded them a 600s
prebuild for the whole game
{14:55} {MasterZen} are you actually planning to build it?
{14:55} {Trip} :P
{14:55} {Cort} NO.
{14:56} {Cort} I mean no.
{14:56} {Trip} haha
{14:56} {MasterZen} lol
{14:56} {Trip} NOOOOOOO!
{14:56} {Trip} ;D
{14:56} {aggie} what a slip in a chat, ohhhh NOOOOO
{14:56} {MasterZen} 4ABSOLUTLEY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ****ING WAY!!!!!
{14:56} {Cort} Though we might if there's a cascade anytime
{14:57} {MasterZen} Sistines... that's such an un-GoW-like wonder
{14:57} {Cort} Actually, the best thing would be to let them build it then trash
Legopolis, so it AND JSB are gone for ever!
{14:57} {aggie} or you can take legopolis and then rush a palace their with a GL
{14:58} {MasterZen} GL's are best used to rush warriors :P
{14:58} {Cort} Actually we thought 'Pernies was a bit of an un-GoW-like wonder ...
but there are better things ahead, right?
{14:58} {MasterZen} hahahaha
{14:58} {MasterZen} we like science. Gives us new weapons to kick butt with
{14:59} {aggie} I must leave now, have fun
{14:59} {Trip} like Sanitation
{14:59} {Trip}
{14:59} {MasterZen} cya aggie
{14:59} {Cort} cya Aggie
{15:00} * aggie has quit IRC (Quit: )
{15:01} {MasterZen} holy ****... you have no clue what just happened
{15:02} {Cort} what?
{15:02} {MasterZen} vondrack popped up in our other channel
{15:04} {Cort} So he's seen us all here? hehe
{15:04} {MasterZen} nope
{15:04} {MasterZen} this room is private and password-protected
{15:04} {Trip} secret, not private :P
{15:04} {MasterZen} secret AND private
{15:04} {Trip} nrstk
{15:05} {Trip} if it was private it would have a p too
{15:05} * opd has joined #GoW_CoFA
{15:05} {opd} hey
{15:05} {MasterZen} lo
{15:05} {Cort} Hiya OPD
{15:06} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{15:06} * Trip{gone} has joined #gow_cofa
{15:06} {Cort} So where were we - Lego's prebuild or tech deals?
{15:06} {MasterZen} Lego
{15:06} * Trip{gone} is now known as Trip
{15:06} {Cort} They have a lot of luxuries in there for a 1-lux civ.
{15:07} {MasterZen} yep
{15:07} {Cort} ...mostly yours, I think, Zayxus
{15:07} * MasterZen looks suspiciously at Zayxus... hee hee
{15:08} {Cort} Lego have a loose build, with hospitals they can go full on metro
everywhere and eat us all.
{15:08} {MasterZen} those are GoWian grapes though
{15:09} {MasterZen} I can tell. You can just feel the drunken power of the wine
{15:09} * MasterZen opens a bottle of vintage 510 AD Dom Zenignon
{15:10} {Cort} However, without luxuries thay'll struggle to keep top pop levels
happy - even with the odd drop of GoW Cabernet Sauvignon
{15:10} {MasterZen} this leads us to 3)...
{15:10} {MasterZen} why don't we just invade their ass?
{15:11} {Cort} Do they have a sea wall?
{15:11} {MasterZen} nope
{15:11} {Cort} Your KIDDING!
{15:11} {MasterZen} not last time we checked...
{15:12} {MasterZen} plus, there's like a gazillion landing sites
{15:12} {Cort} Well go ahead guys. You killed all our units, remember
{15:12} {MasterZen} not all of them...
{15:12} {Cort} We have the remains on our wall.
{15:13} {MasterZen} we can always sign a REAL NAP this time...
{15:13} {Cort} Probably, yes.
{15:13} {MasterZen} see, with all due respect, a GoW/ND invasion of Lego would
kinda leave our asses unprotected... hey, we have to think of everything
{15:14} {Cort} We'd probbaly call it a non-intervention agreement or something. NAP
is such a dirty word these days.
{15:14} {MasterZen} yes, very
{15:15} {MasterZen} well the window of opportunity for a successful invasion of
Lego slowly vanishes turn by turn...
{15:16} {Cort} So we'd give the assurances you require. There is little mood for
adventure in Stormia now. We read books and plan our late industrial defences
...
{15:16} {MasterZen} plus, I'd hate Lego to win without a real fight
{15:16} {Cort} Absolutely, they must bleed.
{15:17} {MasterZen} the other possibility is beating them to Tanks by a long shot
and then doing a late industrial war
{15:17} {Cort} Nice to hit 'em before rails, though.
{15:17} {MasterZen} yeah
{15:18} {Cort} Why don't they make a sea wall? It's only 100 tiles.
{15:18} {MasterZen} maybe they don't have 100 units...
{15:18} {Cort} Are they still on Bob?
{15:18} {asleepathewheel} have they withdrawn their knights from bob?
{15:18} {asleepathewheel} doh
{15:18} {Cort} Stormians think alike!
{15:19} {MasterZen} lol
{15:19} {MasterZen} I don't see any
{15:20} {MasterZen} well let's agree on something
{15:20} {Cort} Yes, agreement.
{15:20} {MasterZen} Re: 1)
{15:21} {MasterZen} In theory we do ND - Nat, GoW - Med, GS - Steam
{15:21} {Cort} Yes.
{15:21} {MasterZen} we keep an eye out though for Vox, perhaps they might be
willing to trade
{15:21} {Cort} OK
{15:22} * MasterZen has been sucking up to Vox as of late precisely thinking of
that...
{15:22} {Cort} is that what the wine is all about
{15:22} {MasterZen} well maybe I can get them drunk too
{15:22} {Cort} lol
{15:23} {Cort} We have an idea about Vox
{15:23} {MasterZen} then again, it's usally me who's drunk... hehe
{15:23} {Cort} - but we're confused.
{15:23} {MasterZen} i'm all ears
{15:24} {Cort} I mean, we assume that Vox is working for Lego, but in our deals
they seem almost independent.
{15:24} {Cort} THey're trying to flog us Democracy.
{15:24} {Cort} Thay won't take lux, they want cash or tech
{15:24} {MasterZen} well. IMO, they're on their own but probably giving/receiveing
techs with Lego
{15:24} {Cort} But every time we get a tech that Lego has, Vox gets it that turn.
{15:26} {Cort} We think they're trying to trade Demo for a mandatory tech that Lego
don't have. We said "you'll have to wait before we can pay you physics, for
certain other parties to get it"
{15:26} {Cort} And we're waiting to see what they say to that. Why would they try
to trade for tech, when Lego will give them it all,
{15:27} {Cort} to get thm into the Ind Age for the freebie.
{15:27} {MasterZen} of course
{15:27} {MasterZen} you know, if Lux were still around, we'd probably be
gang-banging them to give us their free tech too
{15:28} {Cort} We might try and get RP to find out for us. they and Vox have ...
empathy
{15:28} {MasterZen} lol!
{15:29} {Cort} MZ, whad do you think of a stack of RP conquistadors teaming through
the dark heart of Lego and pillaging their resources?
{15:29} {MasterZen} whoa, that'd be interesting
{15:29} {MasterZen} explorer/conquistador pillaging is a devastating tactic
{15:30} {MasterZen} we had so much fun with it in a modern start MP I played a few
months ago
{15:30} {Cort} I bet they'd be interested. THey have some time left on Navigation,
though. It might be too late for your window.
{15:31} {Cort} Speaking of Navigation- Lego have started Magellan
{15:31} {MasterZen} yeah you told us that a while ago
{15:31} {Cort} If it was a prebuild its GA next turn
{15:32} {Cort} How about spying on Jackson? It's 178g. We could split that 3 ways
and reveal some map. In fact, we could buy much of their map through investigating
{15:33} {MasterZen} true
{15:33} {MasterZen} maybe we'll reveal the giant doughnut shape
{15:33} {Cort}  Maybe wait a few turns on Jackson to see if they Build Smith's
(GA) or Sistine.
{15:34} {MasterZen} GoW would have to wait a bit too, we're a bit short on funds
right now
{15:34} {MasterZen} would ND agree to this?
{15:34} * MasterZen looks at Zayxus...
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
{15:35} {Cort} If they get their GA now it'll be too early for them. As long as
non-one trades them Physics, Magnetism and ToG, they'll waste their GA not being
able to research IA tech, and go 4 turn on MA tech instead.
{15:36} {Cort} Funds - yeah, sorry 'bout that, Magnets are ready when you are, btw
{15:36} {MasterZen} ahh good
{15:37} {Cort} Frigates! Ocean!
{15:37} {MasterZen} we have to scrape up the 200g first. I'd calculate in about 6-7
turns we'll send you the cash and tech
{15:37} {Cort} :gasp: we can wait for the cash. We need Metallurgy before that.
{15:37} {MasterZen} ok, we can trade techs this very turn
{15:38} {Cort} Then it's just ToG.
{15:38} {MasterZen} pretty much
{15:40} {MasterZen} can we also agree that IF we decide to attack Lego, it has to
be a joint GoW/ND/GS affair. If any of us doesn't want to, it just can't happen
(successfuly)
{15:40} {Cort} What do you need us for, apart from our obsolete units well away
from your ass?
{15:41} {MasterZen} surely GS can field about 20-30 cavs in the medium term?
{15:41} {MasterZen} obviously if you decide to assist, we'd provide GS with
saltpeter
{15:43} {Cort} I see, that would help, but we've burned our boats. They're mostly
now a library.
{15:43} {MasterZen} oh my, GS has turned hippie...
{15:43} {Cort} Fraid so.
{15:44} {Cort} We thought you'd be pleased
{15:44} {MasterZen} where's your warmonger bunch, Arrian Theseus and SR?
{15:45} {Cort} SR is retiring from DG play,
{15:45} {Cort} Theseus wants to build a space ship,
{15:47} {Cort} and Arrian is retraining the war-chickens as schoolteachers. We're
very happy
{15:47} {MasterZen} I see
{15:48} {Cort} You guys can have a ton of Cav pretty soon
{15:48} {MasterZen} you are aware that there's a big possibility that Stormia might
not have at least one space ship resource? Lego on the other hand...
{15:48} {Cort} I was joking about the space ship
{15:48} {Cort} We'd get our asses nuked long before that.
{15:49} {MasterZen} you know, it'd be funny as hell if Lego lacked uranium
{15:50} {Cort} Yes, it would. What terrain types does it appear on?
{15:51} {MasterZen} I believe forest, tundra... hills?
{15:51} {Trip} hehe
{15:51} * Trip goes to look where the uranium is...
{15:52} {Cort} So, are you worried about your butt, or do you actually NEED another
20-30 units
{15:52} {Trip} mountains
{15:52} {MasterZen} a bit of both actually
{15:52} {Cort} We've discussed it as a contingency, but we'd need to know what the
war aims are,
{15:52} {Trip} forest
{15:52} {Trip} not hills
{15:52} {MasterZen} war aims: reduction of Lego to the point that it is no longer a
sure-fire winner
{15:53} {Cort} sounds reasonable
{15:53} {MasterZen} obviously complete destruction of Lego is well near impossible
{15:53} {MasterZen} but a quick devastating strike against their core might do
enough damange
{15:53} {Cort} they need clipping, though
{15:54} {MasterZen} and I figure that the 3 of us together can probably pull it off
{15:54} {MasterZen} I mean, 30 cavs each = 90
{15:54} {Cort} a quick strike on the core sounds good
{15:55} {Cort} That would leave GoW and ND with about 20 each to come and take
Stormia ...
{15:56} {MasterZen} yes pretty much... err... wait :P
{15:57} {asleepathewheel} Good job cort, you tricked him. mwahaha
{15:57} {MasterZen} dammit... all these years doing diplomacy only to slip up at
the most obvious ruse...
{15:58} {Cort} So no GS in the attack, no hit on Lego. Is that the bottom line?
{15:58} {MasterZen} pretty much
{15:59} {MasterZen} I mean seriously, I'm willing to give GS whatever assurances it
wants that we'll not use it to attack stormia. I understand your paranoia just
the same as we are paranoid of going alone
{15:59} {asleepathewheel} we just remember Vox's second trip to Bob...
{16:00} {Cort} We can put it to the team. The attack would have to be soon, though.
How soon did you have in mind?
{16:00} {opd} why not just
{16:00} {opd} embargo them
{16:00} {MasterZen} seriously, if I had to choose where to wield the might of GoW's
army, I'd definitley use it where it matters most. If we go to war with GS it
only gives Lego more time to win
{16:01} {Cort} Yes, we were looking at economic measures to weaken Lego
{16:02} {MasterZen} i'm not against that either
{16:02} * aggie has joined #gow_cofa
{16:02} * ChanServ sets mode: +o aggie
{16:02} {Cort} A tech loop between GoW/ND/GS would lock Lego out - followed later
by a luxury embargo to stop them growing cities much above 12
{16:03} {MasterZen} well, can I ask you a question?
{16:03} {Cort} WGo on
{16:04} {MasterZen} assuming we do that, what's GS's hope of victory other than
space race with the less than certain odds of having every resource?
{16:04} {Cort} We don't have a victury plan, just a survival plan.
{16:05} {MasterZen} well, your unit wall is a survival plan in itself :P
{16:05} {Cort} It's phase 1
{16:05} {aggie} we saw it
{16:05} {Cort} please come and look. It's very nice.
{16:05} {MasterZen} I already did
{16:06} {MasterZen} it's worse than U.S. Customs at JFK Airport after 9/11
{16:06} {aggie} I wouldn't go that far MZ
{16:06} {Cort} You guys have enough strength to hurt Lego without us. that leaves
your security. We can work on that.
{16:07} {MasterZen} not even a token expeditionary force?
{16:08} {MasterZen} I mean, we'd end up splitting the conquered territories after
all...
{16:08} {Cort} We wouldn't be able to hold them from you. Or Lego. they'll still be
there.
{16:09} {MasterZen} seriously, wouldn't providing GS with saltpeter be proof enough
of our intentions?
{16:10} {opd} yeah but you don't really need us?
{16:10} {Cort} Quite possibly, one for the team to consider. A token force is not
unthinkable ...
{16:11} {MasterZen} my point is that the more troops we can manage, the more
certain our victory, and the bigger the spoils
{16:12} {Cort} We're not confident of holding those spoils, but what do you
envisage - trash a few cities in the core and replace them with our own?
{16:13} {aggie} the main point if we choose this course could be a scorched earch
policy to destroy the economic and military poterntial of Lego
{16:13} {MasterZen} and keep their resources
{16:14} {MasterZen} and brag in the public forum
{16:15} {Trip} mainly the last part :P
{16:16} {Cort} THat'd be a GoW thang
{16:16} {MasterZen} you know the whole reason for this is to provide entertainment
for Trip :P
{16:16} {Trip} of course...
{16:16} {Trip} 
{16:17} {Cort} Trimming that Green blob would be great. Entertainment for Vox, too.
They might see something this time.
{16:17} {Trip} it's fun predicting how things will turn and watching things unfold
{16:17} * Trip thinks Legoland ought to have had a neighbor :P
{16:17} {MasterZen} err.. they do have a neighbor :P
{16:18} {Cort} Yeah, did Lego edit the map or something at the begining?
{16:18} {Trip} :P
{16:18} {Trip} a neighbor to start the game, that is
{16:18} {MasterZen} wait, just you wait... unitl you see the doughnut hole! :P
{16:18} {Trip} NYE was the one that started the game, IIRC :P
{16:19} {Trip} it'd be kind of hard for Lego to mod the map :P
{16:19} {Cort} 480 tiles for one civ. Lucky them.
{16:19} {Trip} I don't know if anyone saw the thread I posted a while back
{16:20} {Trip} about if there were an 8th civ
{16:20} {MasterZen} I did
{16:20} {MasterZen} they'd be RP's neighbors :P
{16:20} {Trip} it would have been west of RP
{16:21} {Cort} So we're agreed on everything except commitment of GS troops against
Lego...
{16:21} {MasterZen} yeah
{16:21} {MasterZen} well, it's not like GoW and ND participation is 100% assured
either :P
{16:21} {MasterZen} but I like to bring up the ideas first
{16:24} {Cort} So if GS don't join in, it doesn't happen. What happens to all those
units if you don't attack Lego? No, I mustn;t ask that
{16:24} {MasterZen} well, I haven't really said that either...
{16:25} {MasterZen} but I'd say the chances of attacking Lego are greatly
diminished...
{16:25} {Cort} OK, this needs to be taken back to the forum
{16:25} {MasterZen} sure thang
{16:25} {Cort} But on the tech deal ... does that still sound good?
{16:26} {MasterZen} oh definitely
{16:26} {MasterZen} does ND like the idea too?
{16:28} {Zayxus} yeah
{16:29} {Cort} great!
{16:30} {MasterZen} cool, I'll see if I can hog something out of Vox though
{16:30} {MasterZen} (the things I do for a free tech...)
{16:30} {Cort} so we are concluded for now?
{16:30} {MasterZen} yeah, at least on my part
{16:31} {MasterZen} who wants logs?
{16:31} {Cort} yes please
{16:31} {MasterZen} to the address you sent me the e-mail right before the chat?
{16:31} {Cort} Yes - thanks
{16:31} {MasterZen} ok
{16:32} * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer )
{16:32} {MasterZen} yey, he left, now we can goof off :P
{16:32} * Trip has joined #gow_cofa
{16:32} {MasterZen} well, I am hungry, and I have a nice big piece of salmon in the
fridge whispering "eat me... eat me"
{16:33} {MasterZen} and I feel so bad if I didn't comply
{16:33} {Cort} ok , thanks everone, 'till next time. And PM's meantime
{16:33} * aggie has left #gow_cofa
{16:33} {MasterZen} great
{16:33} {MasterZen} nice to have you guys around
{16:33} {Cort} you too - cya
{16:33} {MasterZen} I can honestly say it is now a pleasure to chat with GS
{16:33} {Cort}
{16:33} * Cort has left #GoW_CoFA
{16:34} {Zayxus}
{16:34} {Trip}
{16:34} {asleepathewheel} oh this is over? I enjoyed listening in, later.
{16:34} {MasterZen} cya sleepy
{16:34} * asleepathewheel has quit IRC (Quit: )
{16:34} * opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
End of #gow_cofa buffer Thu Feb 12 16:35:46 2004
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
MZ,
The chat was good the other day, and there has been much discussion since on our forum. We haven't reached a unanimous position on the proposal, and there is some opposition to the notion that GS troops are really needed to damage Lego, but at this stage there is a possibility that a GS majority would approve the sending of troops to contribute to a Grand Alliance to Undermine Lego.
Would you be able to offer an an indication of the timescales you had in mind, so we could consider planning possiblites? In the light of the window of operations, we expect you would probably want to get started asap after Mil Trad. For our part, we could deliver an Expeditionary Force to the West of Lego not before around 15 turns, before which we could assist with city investigation, were an eastern assault already under way.
Some at GS feel that Lego may be able to block an eastern landing, in which case a new threat from the west may help to divert troops, but there is also the possibility of landing in Lego Minor, chez Vox, and blasting through Invoice. The least effect would be to pull units into Invoice, making landings easier elsewhere.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
{Cort} OK, here's the deal ...
{Cort} 1. We give you ToG
{Cort} 2. You agree to research medicine within 11 turns
{Cort} 3. If we have no coal, and you have two or more, you supply us with 20 turns of coal
{MasterZen} interesting...
* Joins: UnOrthOdOx
{MasterZen} sounds highly tempting
{Cort} if we have coal, or you don't have a second, then no obligation
{MasterZen} [20:43] {MasterZen} interesting...
{UnOrthOdOx} Fine by me.
{Cort} Can you do Medicine in 11 turns?
{MasterZen} probably yes
{UnOrthOdOx} Sorry, I just got my PC back, been out of it.
{Cort} 200 bpt is 12 turns, so a bit more should do it
{Cort} another thing - out#r tech strategy
{MasterZen} go ahead
{Cort} We're going for the ToE
{Cort} and maybe Hoov - but it'll be tight with Lego
{Cort} Very tight, but we think we can pip them by one turn.
{Cort} More free info ...
{Cort} we're closing - very close - on both science wonders. We don't want you to waste any shields missing them
{Cort} Do you want Uni Suff?
{MasterZen} GoW, by nature, does not suffer WW :P
{Cort} Yes, you suffer Peace-Weariness - we've heard. Can you hold out till Marines, UnO
{UnOrthOdOx} lol
{Cort} Lego have switched 'Sistine' to Smiths
{MasterZen} we noticed
{Cort} Do you still want to let them keep using the 600s prebuild? It's more than any team thought they were offering Lego when the Sistine deals were signed
{MasterZen} we can both write them a very stern letter saying that they cheated us out of it
{UnOrthOdOx} Damn builders
* UnOrthOdOx shakes fist in frustration
{MasterZen} that we did not sign to give them a prebuild for another wonder
{UnOrthOdOx} I swear, if they win, i'm gonna...
{MasterZen} ...nuke 'em!
{Cort} Any idea what ND think of the Sistine thing?
{Cort} No...
{Cort} How about a Public Statement?
{UnOrthOdOx} ND can bite me.
{Cort} ?
* UnOrthOdOx is in a foul mood tonight.
{MasterZen} lol
{MasterZen} no, no idea about sistine
{MasterZen} but you know...
{UnOrthOdOx} f8ck you all, war on everyone!
{MasterZen} this could actually be our excuse to embargo them
{Cort} hmmm...
{Cort} lux embargo?
{MasterZen} everything-embargo
{UnOrthOdOx} Everything.
{MasterZen} hell, GoW's gonna have some galleons off Zenophobia, that should spook 'em a bit
{Cort} cool
{MasterZen} "The Black Peril is coming!"
{Cort} we've seen a Vox Caravel off their coast. We're about to start checking Lego's Western pickets
{MasterZen} btw, just out of curiosity: how long do you think it could've taken GS to build a sizeable invasion force?
{UnOrthOdOx} I sure wish you guys woulda snuffed Vox...
{Cort} Yeah, UnO, so are some of us
{MasterZen} because for us it wouldn't take that long... just a couple of turns for a mass upgrade
{UnOrthOdOx} I was the only advocate off your team, though.
{UnOrthOdOx} GS could build HORSE still, though, right?
{UnOrthOdOx} That should put numbers out quick...
{Cort} It would have taken us a while to get a big force together.
{MasterZen} we would obviously supply the saltpeter at no charge
{Cort} Well, without ND it wouldn't be possible.
{UnOrthOdOx} how much is a horse-calv upgrade in PTW?
{MasterZen} not so much as impossible, rather, I'd hate to leave my ass THAT unprotected
{Cort} Exactly
{Cort} Could ND be coming after you?
{MasterZen} I mean, if GoW and Lego were neighbors, they'd be quite dead by now :P
{MasterZen} Cort, we have to be paranoid of EVERYTHING... it's our nature
{Cort} GS didn't have the galleys, and we couldn't spare many units off our wall.
{Cort} We have to think longer term noe
{Cort} now
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} Lego will be mega, but GoW, ND and GS could still get the job done.
{Cort} We need 1) Science 2) Production 3) Alliance
{MasterZen} and we'll have time to convince those Germans that invading is our best choice
{Cort} GS is low on shields, but strong on science and planning to get stronger
{Cort} Bob is full of shields
{Cort} MZ - ND must be persuaded that Lego has to be hit eventually
{Cort} unless ND's plan is 1) eat GoW 2) eat GS 3) eat Lego
{MasterZen} the problem with ND is that they are in full REX stage and re-development cut-the-jungle phase also
{Cort} rex - yes
{MasterZen} which Is why I'm not that surprised that they refused
{Cort} OK - we all needed to consolidate / regroup after the war. And they have, erm, rather a lot of land to fill. Could keep them a while. They shoudl hire some INdustrial workers
{MasterZen} GoW's advantage is Leo's. We can upgrade our entire army faster than you can say "**** Lego". But ND and GS would find it a bit more difficult. But well, we can wait
{UnOrthOdOx} We can't cut their jungle, learned the hard way.
{Cort} ?
{MasterZen} yep
{UnOrthOdOx} Game won't allow it.
{UnOrthOdOx} Our workers cant cut anything in their territory.
{MasterZen} we sent them some workers back then. Doesn't allow us to chop forest or jungle
{Cort} Wierd.. slave workers in SP do anything
{UnOrthOdOx} Yeah, that changed a few plans during the war.
{Cort} What about paying gold for you to do it directly
{MasterZen} that was the plan
{MasterZen} we sent them workers to no avail, they were GOW workers
{Cort} don't like nasssty ssssticky jungle
{UnOrthOdOx} We determined it had to do with the transfer of shields.
{MasterZen} didn't work with forest either
{MasterZen} apparently the game doesn't allow you to chop in the territory of another team, even if it's your ally and you have a RoP
{UnOrthOdOx} It won't let us give their city shields basically.
{Cort} better build some cities there, then
{UnOrthOdOx} Jungle is the same code as forrest but set to 0 shields.
{UnOrthOdOx} Oh, sure, that'll start a war pretty quick.
{Cort} oh dear
{Cort} Question ...
{UnOrthOdOx} shoot
{Cort} do ND see Lego as their next target or not?
{MasterZen} it better be them and not us :P
{Cort} indeed
{MasterZen} well, look at it this way
{Cort} Mind you, if ND attacked you, Lego would have to help you
{MasterZen} there was a time, and there have been occassions where ND could have butt ****ed us
{MasterZen} there have also been times where GoW could have butt****ed ND
{Cort} er, yes
{MasterZen} (in fact, we could pretty much do it in, say 3 turns :P )
{MasterZen} I think it is clear to both of us, that we're better off together against Lego than to fight amongst ourselves. The same can be said with GS at this stage of the game. Fighting amongs us 3 gets us nowhere
{Cort} What about ND's luxury bonanza to Lego?
{MasterZen} I will talk about that with them on thursday
{Cort} If we want to lux embargo Lego, we need to sort each other out ...
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} for example, GS has another lux it could supply GoW, and ND has, well...
{MasterZen} we will have an extra Gem in the not-so-distant future
{Cort} Woohoo!
{MasterZen} we currently have only one
{Cort} Our single lux trade with Lego is ready to drop at any time
{Cort} If they get Sistine and Caths everywhere, they won't need the lux so much, but when they get to Metros ...
{Cort} Metros are their big monster of the future. Loose build everywhere waiting to go supernova after hospitals. That's when the lux embargo would be most important
* UnOrthOdOx breaks out singing along to "Little Shop of Horrors" on the tele
{Cort} So - back to the grand plan ...
{Cort} So, if GS can prevent Lego getting Hoover Dam, that will help, right?
{MasterZen} i'd definitely prefer any civ rather than Lego from getting it
{Cort} It's not so useful for us. We only have about three full-shield cities! They have about 30
{Cort} So that'll be one plank of our contribution. Another can be science ...
{Cort} especially if the blockheads don't beat us to Cope's and Newton
{MasterZen} let's hope not
{Cort} So with GS science and naval potential, GoW's Leo's and ND's shields, we should lbe able to do something between us.
{MasterZen} definitely
{Cort} I'll get back to you with the wording on that deal, and we can get you ToG on our turn...
{MasterZen} we still need to poll the deal
{Cort} of course - that's why you'll need the wording
{MasterZen} ok, send it our way
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
MZ/UnO,
First, confirming our offer :
1. GS supplies GoW with ToG immediately.
2. GoW to research Medicine within 11 turns, to be traded for Steam Power with GS as agreed previously
3. If GS have no coal, and GoW have two sources or more, GS will supply GoW with Steam Power upon discovery, and GoW supply GS with 20 turns of coal.
We'll send ToG accepted. Accept it if you want to go ahead with deal.
-----
Also, ND now have Physics. They presumably got this from Lego, but whilst still in negotiations with GS over a price. This is unfortunate, as GS would have certainly been able to come to an agreement with ND after some haggling. We have said we'd like to do a deal with them for Magnets & ToG, but are concerned that they're working with Lego for short term gain.
We thought ND agreed to not trading Tech with Lego. Could GoW seek clarification of ND's commitment to this policy during your upcoming chat with them?
Regards,
Cort
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Hello Cort
First of all, since the invasion of Lego was called off our team decided we were free to trade Mil Tradition, Lego had offered us ToG a few turns back for it. So we accepted. We will get it in 3 turns.
As per the GS deal, as long as the GoW-ND-GS partnership is in place, I do not doubt we would supply GS with a resource it needs, for example, had the invasion plans been confirmed, we would not have hesitated to supply GS with saltpeter. We should be able to do the same with coal.
We will also finish our FP in the next couple of turns, this will give a huge boost in our science spending, we can probably get Medicine in that timeframe.
One last thing, I was talking to vondrack today, and expressed our discontent about the Sistine prebuild. Has GS sent anything to Lego about that issue? To be honest, we weren't planning on Sistine's but perhaps GS might find it a more useful wonder. I was willing to suggest to GS if it wanted to "trade" wonders, we would be allowed to build one of the science wonders (we are close to Copernicus ourselves) and GS switch to Sistines and get the other science wonder. Ultimatley GoW could do Sistines but I think GS would find more use to it due to their cheaper cathedrals.
If Lego moans and b*tches about it in public, GoW would openly support GS's right to Sistines.
This is just an idea, tell me what you think.
Regards,
-MZ
btw. I was thinking if perhaps we can set one of the days of the week for a weekly GS-GoW chat.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Hello to you MZ,
Forgive us please for asking you to reconsider your chosen route for acquiring Theory of Gravity - on the basis of GoW's best interests and GAUL's.
1. By obtaining it from Lego instead of GS you will slow down your entry into the IA by three turns, delaying your acquisition of Steam Power and Industrialisation with all their attendant goodies.
2. By trading Mil Trad to Lego this eliminates a possible distraction for Lego which might otherwise have diverted them from the fastest route to the the IA wonders which they must be denied.
3. By delaying Medicine, the best hope of denying Lego the ToE is dangling by a thread. Of GoW-ND-GS, only GS research output, including the two science Wonders, can get to Scientific Method before Lego. The timing of Medicine is everything in this plan. If GoW perhaps fancies a shot at the ToE itself, and hence has a motivation to obstruct the GS plan, only Lego will benefit from this.
If you are committed to your decision to again trade with Lego, so be it, but the GS offer is still on the table, and ToG will again be on your doorstep when the turn arrives
We too will inform Lego what we think of the Sistine situation in due course. As we have had no diplomatic relations with them for centuries, we have no channels at the moment.
The two science wonders are paramount for us, and we fully intend to get them, in accordance with our entire post-war policy of economically narrowing Lego's margin of dominance.
May Blockhead Mortar turn to Mush! Long live GAUL!
Regards,
CH
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:26
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RE: PTWDG
Hello
You are free to come into our chat anytime #GoW_CoFA, if I'm there idling just type /notice (my nick) Hello or something like that and I'll get some very annoying beeps which are sure to catch my attention
There is a little problem though, as of tomorrow I will be participating in a United Nations model at my school and will likely be away for most of the day. Try and catch me after 7pm CST these days.
The other day is sunday, I'll probably be here all day.
btw, I like the topic of the chat...
Cheers
-MZ
quote:
quote:
MZ-
We need to set up a chat with you sometime in the near future. I'm not sure when it could be, my work life is in flux at the moment and am not sure when I will be around for the next few days. Are there times of the day when you are in the chatroom, that I could just pop in? I expect to be the only GS member chatting. Sorry for the pain, we are reorganizing a bit again, Cort Haus is taking a slight break, though I expect him to return eventually, unlike our past emigrants.
Things to discuss: The fate of the world. (Ominous, eh?)
-aatw
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:26
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[edit by DeepO: edited your text to make the names readable. Hope you don't mind!]
note for context: I showed up in the GoW room and found...Zayxus there, so was trying to juggle chats...I bolded some interesting bits...
[14:50] *asleepathewheel* I think we need to have a chat without ND, as well
[14:50] *MasterZen* sure
[14:51] *MasterZen* if no-one else from GS is coming we can keep it here in private
[14:51] *asleepathewheel* just me, so don't hurt me too much
[14:51] *MasterZen* lol
[14:51] *asleepathewheel* this is...awkward, I stopped by hoping to find you only, so not sure
what to say in the main chat room
[14:52] *MasterZen* this seems to be "the day" and "the hour" where everyone shows up at our
chat
[14:52] *asleepathewheel* funny
[14:52] *MasterZen* it's convenient in the sense that it's like the de facto time when other
teams want to talk to us, of course it's a pain to have 3-4 windows open and active at the
same time... but that's what I get
[14:52] *asleepathewheel* sure
[14:55] *asleepathewheel* uhh, lets see
[14:57] *MasterZen* btw
[14:57] *asleepathewheel* ?
[14:57] *asleepathewheel* We have some concerns about ND
[14:57] *MasterZen* sorry about the whole ToG deal, the problem is we had agreed to it with
Lego a long while back, if we knew GS had it we would have traded with you
[14:58] *asleepathewheel* oh, ok
[14:58] *asleepathewheel* we were probably being a bit to secretive, we...have that problem
[14:58] *MasterZen* we tried to change the deal with Lego, for Economics instead... but they
got Adam Smith's on that same turn so it was pointless
[14:58] *asleepathewheel* oh ok
[14:59] *MasterZen* what are your concerns with ND?
[14:59] *asleepathewheel* what about ND? we thought we were negotiating with them for ToG,
then we found out in game that they got it from Lego?
[15:00] *MasterZen* probably
[15:00] *MasterZen* I honestly don't know how they get their techs besides the ones we trade
among ourselves
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* nd sent us an odd note
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* We made a decission in the beginning of this game to strike the deals
withthe best conditions for us. Right now we consider the deals with Legoland of greater
benefit for us. This has nothing to do with your team but your prices aren't able to beat the
ones that Legoland has set up so we trade with them.
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* As for the plans of a war, we must clarify that the last war with RP
and GS was the last one that saw ND as an Agressor. We have splendid relationship to Legos
and are not the ones to fall in the backs of our former allys even if it means, that we will
not finish this game in a winning position.
[15:01] *asleepathewheel* erm, that was the note
[15:02] *MasterZen* heheh, how "ND-ish"
[15:02] *asleepathewheel* indeed
[15:02] *MasterZen* short, blunt, and to the point
[15:02] *asleepathewheel* raises some questions
[15:02] * MasterZen 's Cavalry is ready...
[15:03] *asleepathewheel* are they going to for a build off with lego or something?
[15:03] *asleepathewheel* will they never agree to attack them?
[15:03] *MasterZen* I honestly don't know
[15:03] *MasterZen* what I can guarantee is that ND is not going to war in the near future
[15:03] *MasterZen* well, against Lego, that is
[15:03] *asleepathewheel* well, the only teams that can attack each other really are the two of
you
[15:03] *MasterZen* yeah... hahaha
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* they can't possibly win a build off against lego, lego is way too
developed
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* you can't win that way, we have no hopes of winning that way
[15:04] *MasterZen* well... there is a way
[15:04] *MasterZen* NUKES
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* well, true
[15:04] *asleepathewheel* hehe
[15:05] *asleepathewheel* we are now weak to lego, btw
[15:05] *asleepathewheel* so they have been using their ga to build units, at least in part
[15:05] *MasterZen* yes, believe it or not, so are we
[15:05] *asleepathewheel* hmm. uhoh
[15:05] *MasterZen* still, Lego obviously has a lot of units, as for offensive power I don't
know
[15:06] *MasterZen* i.e. how many mobile units they have
[15:06] *asleepathewheel* right
[15:06] *MasterZen* GoW doesn't have that many units, but most of them are Cavs/Riders
[15:06] *asleepathewheel* right
[15:07] *asleepathewheel* hw is your relationship with nd, are you still quite secure in the
south?
[15:08] *MasterZen* yes, I think that our relationship is good
[15:08] *asleepathewheel* thats good
[15:08] *asleepathewheel* frankly about the only thing that can happen int he next 30 or
whatever turns til marines can happen to you or ND
[15:09] *MasterZen* of course, GoW - inherently paranoid - always plans for the worst
[15:09] *asleepathewheel* yes
[15:09] *asleepathewheel* at marines...either GS gets roasted nearly immediately or Lego is
attacked
[15:10] *asleepathewheel* we have to gamble that Stormia isn't worth much, neither bob civ nor
lego will win domination by conquering us
[15:10] *asleepathewheel* we meaning GS
[15:11] *MasterZen* but we'd still have fun... errr... nevermind
[15:11] *asleepathewheel* well, of course.
[15:11] *asleepathewheel* :0
[15:12] *MasterZen* heheh
[15:12] *MasterZen* GoW joke
[15:12] *MasterZen* (bad GoW joke..)
[15:12] *asleepathewheel* we have to hope that you need us to take out lego, speaking frankly.
[15:12] *MasterZen* nah, to be honest we'd much rather be trading with you. Lego is a monster
[15:12] *MasterZen* yes, exactly
[15:13] *asleepathewheel* but these recent Nd communications confuse the issue for us, if they
are actively trading and purchasing from lego
[15:13] *asleepathewheel* our hope is to push hard ahead to tanks and marines, hence the two
sci wonders
[15:14] *MasterZen* well, why don't you guys lower the bar on your tech trades with ND? No
offense but GS had a reputation of driving a hard bargain before...
[15:14] *asleepathewheel* yeah I know
[15:14] *asleepathewheel* sigh
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* I think we were expecting a negotiation, but nd didn't counter offer,
FWIR
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* but I think we have changed our tune
[15:15] *MasterZen* yeah, ND needs to be courted
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* regarding such negotiations
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* yes
[15:15] *MasterZen* not because they're special or anything, simply it's the language barrier
[15:15] *asleepathewheel* true
[15:16] *MasterZen* obviously no such troubles with us, we've been quite pleased with our
recent trades
[15:17] *asleepathewheel* right, but our trades were much more equitable, nd would have made
off like bandits in comparison
[15:17] *asleepathewheel* but if that's what's necessary to shut out lego, then we will figure
something out
[15:17] *MasterZen* cool
[15:18] *MasterZen* how long till you guys get Steam power?
[15:18] *asleepathewheel*
[15:18] *asleepathewheel* next turn
[15:18] *asleepathewheel* :0
[15:18] *MasterZen* wow, that was quick...
[15:19] *asleepathewheel* yes, we are now good at one thing only, that is research
[15:19] *MasterZen* I assume you are going for that holy grail of industrial wonders: Hoover
[15:20] *asleepathewheel* yes, its really the only way we can compete industrially with lego
[15:20] *asleepathewheel* are you shooting for it as well with your sistine prebuild?
[15:20] *MasterZen* it's up in the air...
[15:20] *MasterZen* sistines, believe it or not, is actually useful to us
[15:21] *MasterZen* god bless GhengisFarb's 5-tile city spacing.... will bring us a lot of cash
after Hospitals
[15:21] *asleepathewheel* I'm sure it is. If you built it, we wouldn't object
[15:21] *asleepathewheel* haha
[15:22] *MasterZen* you know, if I had played GoW's early turns, I'd have had like 10 cities
where GF only placed 5 :P
[15:22] *asleepathewheel* yeah, a bit open. we have squeezed in as many cities as possible to
our land, but what else to do?
[15:23] *MasterZen* I'm not a fan of spaced out builds
[15:23] *asleepathewheel* no, neither am I. Though perhaps GF's builds helped seal Lux's fate,
due to land problems
[15:23] *MasterZen* I like my cities like I like my women: TIGHT! hahaha
[15:23] *asleepathewheel* hehe
[15:24] *asleepathewheel* how do you see the marine/tank period playing out? will nd agree to
a three way attack on lego?
[15:24] *MasterZen* I dunno, hopefully they'll get tired of their hippie ways
[15:24] *MasterZen* to be honest I kinda liked the old we-don't-give-a-****-let's-kill-someone
ND of days of yore...
[15:24] *asleepathewheel* hopefully
[15:25] *asleepathewheel* so you expect medicine in 10 turns?
[15:25] *MasterZen* yes
[15:25] *MasterZen* probably less
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* poly is all ****ed up, yet again, apparently
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* ok
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* here's the deal
[15:26] *asleepathewheel* we need medicine as fast as you can make it
[15:27] *asleepathewheel* is there some deal that we could come up with to get it faster?
[15:27] *asleepathewheel* maybe working with nd to funnel you cash to speed it up, and us
trading them steam?
[15:28] *MasterZen* weren't you going to trade them steam anyway?
[15:28] *asleepathewheel* we're going to sell them steam, apparently, for who knows how much
[15:28] *asleepathewheel* zayxus told me to make them an offer via email
[15:29] *asleepathewheel* so not sure exactly what is going on there.
[15:30] *MasterZen* ND is hoarding gold
[15:30] *MasterZen* that's why they want cash deals on pretty much everything
[15:30] *asleepathewheel* right
[15:31] *asleepathewheel* this is tricky, isn't it?
[15:31] *MasterZen* very
[15:31] *asleepathewheel* sigh
[15:31] *MasterZen* but that's the fun of it
[15:31] *asleepathewheel* right..right
[15:32] *asleepathewheel* I think deepo posted our turn already. hmm
[15:34] *asleepathewheel* earlier you mentioned hoover. I forgot to mention that we are also
wanting it to deny it to lego. imagine lego with hoover, very scary
[15:34] *MasterZen* lego without hoover is still quite scary
[15:34] *asleepathewheel* true.
[15:35] *asleepathewheel* which is why we are stretching to get to electronics asap.
[15:36] *asleepathewheel* it would be pretty funny, from an objective pov, if GS built all
these wonders and hoover and pushed the tech race, only to get assaulted by marines and
destroyed. I think we figured out that it would be easily doable to destroy GS in one turn
using marines properly.
[15:37] *MasterZen* how about this: you get ND to give us gold to get medicine ASAP and you
trade us one of the two free techs you get with ToE, and we basically do not impede GS from
getting ToE/Hoovers
[15:37] *MasterZen* this is just an idea of course... our team would have to discuss it
[15:37] *asleepathewheel* of course. we have been toying with similar ideas
[15:38] *asleepathewheel* we've been trying to come up with a 3 way frame work to get marines
asap, sharing the work.
[15:40] *asleepathewheel* do you know how I can export this easily
[15:40] *asleepathewheel* this chat I mean
[15:40] *MasterZen* sure
[15:40] *MasterZen* you are using mIRC?
[15:40] *asleepathewheel* yes
[15:40] *MasterZen* right click the window button, goto Buffer then save as...
[15:42] *asleepathewheel* hmm
[15:43] *asleepathewheel* not working for some reason
[15:43] *MasterZen* are you sure?
[15:43] *MasterZen* I can e-mail it to you if you want
[15:43] *asleepathewheel* that would be great
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* my wife is going to be home very soon, at which point....
[15:44] *MasterZen* hehe
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* my email is [edited]
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* I enjoyed this, was my first one on one chat with another team, hope
I diddn't let out too many secrets
[15:44] *asleepathewheel* though in the past we were way too tight lipped
[15:45] *asleepathewheel* thats changed a lot since nathan left and CH took over, more friendly
atmosphere
[15:45] *MasterZen* yes, pretty much, but this is the kinder, gentler GS
[15:45] *asleepathewheel* we will try to work something out with Nd to get you cash
[15:46] *MasterZen* ok
[15:46] *asleepathewheel* lego getting ToE would be a disaster as well, in our thoughts
[15:47] *MasterZen* yep
[15:48] *asleepathewheel* we're just hoping vox rolls nationalism and lego has to research both
steam and medicine naturally
[15:48] *MasterZen* yeah
[15:49] *asleepathewheel* anything else we need to discuss that you can think of?
[15:49] *MasterZen* not really, has Roleplay been a good neighbor?
[15:50] *asleepathewheel* pretty quiet, but yeah. WE do have elipolis heavily guarded, just in
case
[15:50] *MasterZen* hee hee
[15:51] *MasterZen* btw, as a gesture of peace I'll withdraw our two galleys. They be best used
in the west...
[15:52] *asleepathewheel* great. I dont' know if CH told you this, but we have a few probe, i
mean, scout galleys and galleons out east and have spotted the lego/vox (one galley I think)
line about halfway between us.
[15:52] *MasterZen* interesting
[15:52] *MasterZen* we also spotted the lego line to our west
[15:52] *asleepathewheel* It was actually probably best that we didn't try landing a efw turns
ago, I think we either wouldn't have found landing sites, or we would have been blown away,
right away
[15:53] *asleepathewheel* well, I better be going, I enjoyed the chat, please email me the log
when you can
[15:54] *MasterZen* sure, take care
End of asleepathewheel buffer Thu Mar 11 16:02:02 2004
Last edited by DeepO on 12-03-2004 at 14:30
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
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DRAFT PM, to be sent to MZ, Aggie, and frankly anyone else I can think over at GoW:
quote:
MZ, Aggie, etc:
I'd like to touch base with you guys on your research of medicine. The last I heard, via a chatlog from MZ & Asleepatthewheel, medicine was supposed to take you ~10 turns, maybe less. I think that was a couple of turns ago.
Can you give me an ETA? As you guys know, we're trying for ToE -> Hoover. Shocker! Of course we are. We are very interested in getting medicine around about the same time we finish electricity. So clearly your expected discovery date of medicine is important to us.
We have attempted negotiation with ND on the subject of providing money to GoW to assist your research. ND's asking price, though, was, to be kind, totally insane.
We're not against sweetening the pot, mind you. Not at all. But first we really need to know two things:
1) your current expected discovery date for medicine; and
2) the fastest you could possibly get it, disregarding deficit spending for the moment.
Further, not only do we want to try and complete our Steam Power for Medicine deal as soon as possible, but obviously we also would like to keep medicine for Lego for a while yet. Since you are researching medicine, it's clealry yours to trade, but perhaps we could convince you to hold off on trading it to lego for a certain number of turns?
We are quite aware that we are basically asking for your help to get ToE. I, and my fellow Stormians, are willing to pay a premium for that. Exactly what is a matter for negotiation, of course, but I've got a couple of ideas.
Please discuss and let me know what you think.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
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SENT TO AGGIE, MZ, and UnO:
quote:
Aggie, MZ, and UnO,
I'm sending this to all of you, just to make sure it comes to your team's attention quickly.
First off, FYI: Lego has hit the industrial age.
I'd like to touch base with you guys on your research of medicine. The last I heard, via a chatlog from MZ & Asleepatthewheel, medicine was supposed to take you ~10 turns, maybe less. I think that was a couple of turns ago.
Can you give me an ETA? As you guys know, we're trying for ToE -> Hoover. Shocker! Of course we are. We are very interested in getting medicine around about the same time we finish electricity - in order that we might beat Lego to Scientific Method. So clearly your expected discovery date of medicine is very important to us.
We have attempted negotiation with Lego's poodle ND on the subject of providing money to GoW to assist your research. ND's asking price, though, was (to be kind) totally insane. They asked for the moon, some stars, and my firstborn child. I drafted a counteroffer, but decided to talk to you guys first.
We're not against sweetening the pot to get what we want, mind you. Not at all. The days of trying to squeeze "fair value" from every trade we make are gone. But first we really need to know two things:
1) your current expected discovery date for medicine; and
2) the fastest you could possibly get it, disregarding deficit spending for the moment.
Further, not only do we want to try and complete our Steam Power for Medicine deal as soon as possible, but obviously we also would like to keep medicine (and steam power) from Lego for a while yet*. Since you are researching medicine, it's clealry yours to trade, but perhaps we could convince you to hold off on trading it to ND or Lego for a certain number of turns (like, say, 10)? I only include ND because I believe they will immediately turn around and sell it to Lego. If they promised a no-trade with Lego, that's different.
We are quite aware that we are basically asking for your help to get ToE. My fellow Stormians and I are willing to pay a premium for that. Exactly what is a matter for negotiation, of course, but I've got a couple of ideas.
Please discuss and let me know what you think.
-Arrian
* - clearly, Vox could get medicine or steam power as their free tech, and provide that to Lego (of course). If that happens, so be it. Nothin' we can do about it. |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
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 A RESPONSE:
quote:
Hello Arrian,
first of all, sorry for resonding so late, RL has been tremendously hectic, anyway, here goes.
We are willing not only to allow, but to help GS get both ToE and Hoovers before Lego does. We are confident that once you get ToE you can snatch Hoovers before they do so it's all a matter of getting ToE quickly. To that end, ND has told us that they are willing to send us A LOT of cash to speed up getting Medicine, and according to our estimates, can get it in another 2 turns with ND assistance. After that we can do one of two things:
1) ND and GoW can financially assist GS in getting Electricity and Scientific Method.
2) GoW can pursue other techs and hand them to GS for free (Sanitation would be the obvious choice since it's a tech we highly covet, another is Replaceable Parts).
In exchange, we think that getting the free techs from ToE's would be satisfactory. Obviously we would cede both ToE and Hoovers to the Gathering Storm. We understand, though, that GS might think that handing over the 2 techs might be a bit risky so we wouldn't mind a "waiting period" for example, perhaps in the meantime if ND is in the industrial we can do Replaceable Parts and gift it to GS.
Anyway, this is just a brainstorm, i'd like to hear what you guys have planned and perhaps we can hammer out a deal in thursday's chat.
Regards
-MZ |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
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My answer:
quote:
MZ,
Interesting. My plan was simpler - just research medicine in time for us to start on S.M. right away after we finish electricity, and we think we've got it. Medicine would be traded for Steam Power, as previously agreed. We were willing to have GS throw in some money to help you research medicine with all possible haste, because at the time it seemed like ND wasn't really interested in playing ball.
By the way, the one truely crucial piece of info I was hoping for was your ETA on medicine. If it lines up with GS's discovery of Electricity, we're in real good shape. That's the crucial bit. Can you let me know?
We've got this all timed out. We believe that if we can begin S.M. research immediately upon discovering Electricity (requires we get medicine from you that turn), we will get ToE, and therefore Hoover. We can research SM at 4-turn pace, IIRC, and that's the key. We have made our plans under the assumption that Lego is capable of researching ALL the techs needed for ToE at 4-turn pace, given their GA and the fact that we're in front, which means they get discounts for researching behind us.
After we deal with that, we would definitely be interested in industrialization and replaceable parts. Sanitation is a slightly lower value to us because of the tight city spacing, but we would of course still need it.
Medicine for Steam Power has already been agreed to, it's just a matter of timing. IIRC, there was also discussion of an Electricity for Industrialization trade. That would still leave you short on Scientific Method, Atomic Theory and Electronics. How about something like this (please understand that I too am just brainstorming, and do NOT have the authority to agree to this yet):
Scientific Method for Sanitation
Atomic Theory for Replaceable Parts
Electronics for Refining or Steel or something like that.
We would want no-trade clauses on the deals (standard 20 turns?) to prevent Lego catching up. Speaking of which, I would also like to delay trades as long as possible (without hampering our own research) so as not to give them research discounts.
There is a concensus in GS that we do not want to try and squeeze every penny out of each deal, but there is also a strong concensus that we don't just give away techs, like ND asked us to do. A trade of a large tech for a smaller one is fine (Steam for Med, Elect for Ind). I don't know what you said to them to get them onboard, but bravo. Though I must admit I'm worried they will balk at the no-trade clauses, because they want to sell or give all this stuff to Lego.
Anyway, let me take your PM to the team and we can formulate a real answer, rather than my off-the-cuff response.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
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Message from MZ, and my response:
quote:
oh damn
I am sorry I could not make it to the chat (it was supposed to be on thursday 3pm EST). Basically that's more or less the unofficial chat time each week, ND usually goes online at that time and so does Vondrack from Lego occasionally, Cort Haus and asatw from GS also join us at that time.
Unfortunately this week my ISP decided to let me down and I had no internet during that day until about 6-7 hours later.
Anyway, if you want to chat before next thursday, I'm usually in the gow room #gow_cofa whenever I'm online, or you can catch me in the ISDG chat room.
Has GS finished Electricity? We were thinking if GS had accepted the deal ND had offered you guys which they told us about during the last time we chatted. If not, GoW will likely do Sanitation full speed after Medicine then switch to Replaceable Parts but we will need Electricity to do it.
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quote:
Ack.
Not yet on Electricity, but we're close.
I've been busy IRL, and can't really commit to a chat at any point (this week in particular is kinda crazy). I will post your PM in our forum and hope one or more of my teamates can work this out with you.
I think there is political will on both sides to work out a deal. I think you agree that "better GS than Lego" for ToE/Hoover, and I think we agree that GoW & ND's assistance in ensuring that happens is worth something. The Devil, of course, is in the details.
-Arrian |
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
{Cort} hello
{MasterZen} heey
{Cort} gotcha!
{MasterZen} finally
{Cort} congrats on Medicine ...
{MasterZen} btw, sorry I couldn't make it last thursday, stupid ISP crashed
{Cort} I was away myself last week
{MasterZen} yes, don't forget to tell me to send it to you guys the turn before you get Electricity
{Cort} We get Electricity next turn
{MasterZen} ok then we'll send it to you this one
{Cort} THat is, the turn after the one we just got
{MasterZen} ah perfect
{Cort} So we send you Steam now ...
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} Wanna know where the coal is?
{MasterZen} sure
{Cort} PLague City
{MasterZen} who'd have guessed....
{Cort} ND have only got one, too
{Cort} it's in the jungle at Marlowa-66
{Cort} Lego probably have about six - I think three are visible
{Cort} Even Vox got one
{Cort} We got one - rather nicely placed, as it happens
{MasterZen} damn Lego
{Cort} Maybe they'll have no uranium
{Cort} which reminds me ...
{MasterZen} hopefully
{Cort} Marines, and the planning of, is becomeing a topic for our forum
{MasterZen} that's good
{Cort} THere's a feeling going around that GoW and GS might want to start thinking together about this
{MasterZen} obviously GoW is in favor
{Cort} cool
{MasterZen} and obviously GoW will likely be planning for it
{Cort} excellent
{Cort} question is - ND
{Cort} whose side are they gonna be on
{MasterZen} they better be on ours
{Cort} you know better than us - will they be too busy REXing still?
{MasterZen} well, they're not really rexing as quick as they could, thinks me...
* Joins: Krill
{Cort} Krill!
{Krill} Hello
{MasterZen} new GS member?
{Krill} Yes
{MasterZen} welcome
{Krill} And CoD
{Cort}
* MasterZen is no longer active in the PTWDG II
{Krill} Thank you, we don't have to try to beat you then
{Cort} so, we were talking about hitting Lego
{Cort} with marines
{Krill} Best way, and we have another advantage. We know when Lego research Elec
{Cort} I don't know how we go about specifics ...
{Krill} Hence when they can research replacable parts, and build infantry
{MasterZen} we'll need quite a number of ships...
{Cort} ... but now we agree on a mutual cause we can take the next step
{Cort} yes, we've been thinkning about that - we have some plans ...
{Krill} where will we invade, though?
{Cort} ... but I've been away lately so can't speak in detail atm
{Cort} we were thinking of knocking out the pickets and attacking their west
{MasterZen} I wonder, will we want to concentrate our armies on one front or attack on each side?
{Cort} a matter for debate
{MasterZen} sometimes I'd just rather nuke 'em
{Cort} too late, we fear
{MasterZen} depends if we can out-research them to the modern age
{Cort} depends on whether ND was in on it or dancing with Lego
(at which point everyone had to go to dinner / sleep)
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:26
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{Cort} Nice work on Medicine We hope you're enjoying your RR
{MasterZen} hey
{MasterZen} sorry, was (am) playing the ISDG turn
{MasterZen} what's up?
{Cort} OK, won't keep you
{MasterZen} nah, don't worry, I'm almost finished
{Cort} I just wanted to ask about future research
{Cort} Do you want to do Indust or shall we?
{MasterZen} ah yes
{MasterZen} we actually started on Sanitation, and after that we're doing Rep. Parts
{Cort} OK, shall we do Indust then after Sci Meth?
{MasterZen} what are the other options?
{Cort} er, Radio?
{MasterZen} lol
{MasterZen} yes well, I guess that's the only choice
{Cort} I think indust would be most likely
{Cort} also, we were wondering whether the road to Legopolis might go through Neu Theben, if you understand ...
{Cort} ND just got Steam from Lego
{Cort} which suggests those two are happy bunnies together
{MasterZen} I am starting to get concered about ND and Lego...
{MasterZen} though I honestly don't understand WHY ND is so interested in befriending Lego
{Cort} it makes no sense
{Cort} unless they want to join together to get far ahead of GoW & GS
{Cort} It's looking like we might have to hit both of them, and ND is easier!
{MasterZen} don't think that thought hasn't crossed my mind
{MasterZen} but still, why would they want to get far ahead of GoW and GS? Lego still has a HUGE lead over ND
{Cort} yes, ND have a lot of work to catch up - can they be persuaded to break with LEgo?
{Cort} if not, we just have to hit them both or let Lego win
{MasterZen} well, I'll try and persuade them this thursday, if not, we'll have to seriously consider hitting ND
{Cort} sounds good, feeling is growing that ND need a lesson on geo-political realities
{Cort} The worst that can happen is we lose, but we'll lose anyway, and we can't let Lego win without getting their hair mussed
{MasterZen} well, we'll have to see. To be honest though, I don't think our team might agree to it unless there was unmistakable evidence that ND and Lego have something up their sleeve and not just tech trading.
{Cort} What kind of evidence might that be? WMD? We could put a dossier together!
{MasterZen} send in Hans Blix
{Cort} lol
{Cort} Well, if ND and Lego are close, and GS-GoW hit Lego, we might expect ND to join in, which would tricky for GoW's douthern flank
{Cort} southern
{Cort} The best option is to talk ND into joining GAUL, instead of Lego
{MasterZen} yep
{Cort} but only GoW can do that - they don't trust us, and have no particular reason to trust us
{MasterZen} i'll have to use my psycho ploys against them...
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13-02-2004 04:47
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