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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
Hi again,
while we have reached a compromise for the case of going back a few turns, this compromise is naturally not valid should GWT and CGN not reach a consensus and should the game restart after CGN jumped their units.
However, in light of a majorly productive discussion and with the will to resolve further issues of discontent, we at the GCA are willing to reach another compromise for the case that the game restarts at 440AD, where we left off.
We know very well that we do not need such a compromise as there is no action that needs to be compensated. But for the sake of the game we are willing to give it a try.
440AD
1. The CGN jump has left you with 2 cities that you chose to keep at least for now. Your presence on this continent can naturally not be tolerated by us.
2. You are eager to resolve the war weariness issue and circumventing mongoose latest ruling about it (i.e. 5 turns no attack AND no bigger war possible).
Furthermore you would love to be without our constantly threatening galley in the inner sea.
So, we have an issue to resolve on each side.
Our offer is the following:
We will accept a peace treaty and disband our units in the inner lake, if you hand over the two cities you were gifted from CGN in the "New World".
P.S.: With the simple addition of a single technology (Theology) we might be willing to even sign a formal peace treaty which would ensure no further attacks for a long time (hmm, how about 40 turns?) and thus no reinciting of your WW.
Well, that is our offer. For mere 2 tiny cities you get back your full commerce capability at the soonest point possible. And we get a little more safety in return.
I hope such an offer is reasonable and that you are willing to discuss this possibility and reach an agreement as we did before.
Lucky
P.S.: Just reading that GWT has finalized their withdrawel, so it seems we need this new compromise.
P.P.S: Sending this to arnelos as well. |
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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To Lucky. Thanks for the advice from our FAM on this one, as well. 
quote:
Lucky,
First off, the timing of the replay seems to be a moot issue now that GWT has dropped their protest. We're currently polling the result in our forum, but results so far are very much in favor, seeing as GWT's current policy matches our original one.
We would still like to see a long-term resolution to the WW issue, seeing as Apolyton is far from the only team likely be at the short end of the stick over the course of the game. We are open to discussing that with all teams and indeed would like to encourage a settlement of the issue, something we believe that we were making some progress on with you, in particular, before the other issue fell apart.
As for your offer of peace in return for the two cities we have been gifted by CGN under the current Mongoose ruling, we must decline. While we certainly desire peace and desire for the galley in the lake to be gone, we are unwilling to obtain these things at that price.
We are interested in resolving this issue, however. We've all gone to a lot of trouble to get as far as we had, so here's hoping that something can be worked out.
- Arnelos
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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From Lucky:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucky
quote:
Originally posted by ArnelosAs for your offer of peace in return for the two cities we have been gifted by CGN under the current Mongoose ruling, we must decline. While we certainly desire peace and desire for the galley in the lake to be gone, we are unwilling to obtain these things at that price.
We are interested in resolving this issue, however. We've all gone to a lot of trouble to get as far as we had, so here's hoping that something can be worked out.
- Arnelos |
I am truly sorry to hear that. However, it surprises me that you don´t even make a counter-proposal to our offer, maybe your interest in resolving this issue isn´t that big after all.
Our offer stands.
We had hoped to prevent any further bloodshed between our people at the time being, but that doesn´t seem to be your interest. We will take all necessary steps to remove any of your presence from this continent, and use all means possible if the peaceful means cannot find your approval.
It is truly unfortunate, we were and are willing to compromise. Our offer wasn´t a final one that can´t be modified.
Concerning the "high price", I think you are betraying your own people that way. Peace and removal of further threats would enhance your cities economies as if you would have ~5 more at the current state of affairs. ~5 productive more, not those irrelevant outposts that we desire.
Lucky |
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wervdon
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I agree with BF here. We should hold the save and demand a permanent resolution to the WW issue.
Now we might not be able to effectively demand peace while we hold cities on the western continent, and if he uses that as any excuse, then we have to accept it, but we should still demand that as soon as neither side has cities on the same continent and neither side has navigation, the war MUST end until one of the two conditions is met.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:34
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Lucky mentions THREE TIMES in this PM about how the offer wasn't final, how he wants us to make a counter offer, how he's hoping we can negotiate, etc.
What does that tell us?
While he's being a pr*ck, he's also drawing at straws. Trying to get something out of this whole situation before it collapses again. We have two options:
1) Turn the tables on him, make signifigant demands on him that, after further negotiation, brings us to a midpoint we can agree on. We can threaten him far more easily than he can threaten us:
-- We bring up that we're going to publicly discuss his RNG # methods and manipulations and ask the UN if such behavior should be allowed.
-- We voice our demands that the WW abuse must stop now, or else we will halt play until an agreement is reached by all the teams.
-- Take these issues to other ISDG games, like the C3C game that Lucky is in, and push for banning his team there if he continues to abuse the rulings of the moderator.
2) We ignore him entirely. Negotiate with GWT regarding WW. Cut him out of the picture. He doesn't deserve to have a say in this, let's go over his head, get GWT agreement on a WW abuse rule, and handle it that way.
While option 1 is far more appealing and delicious, option 2 would be much easier and much less publicly hostile.
But I have to say that I'm still very drawn to option 1...
--Togas
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnelos
MZ,
AFTER GWT attacks the cities, we will be at war with GWT. It will be in the interests of the GWT/GCA alliance to sign peace with us. If we want to end our war with them (this assumes negative war weariness may not ENTIRELY make up for our WW hit from the GCA war) immediately rather than wait 5 turns, we will need to negotiate that with Lucky.
This is why we have to keep a dialogue open with Lucky, at least until GWT attacks and we have a peace agreed to with GCA. Until GWT attacks however, I'm inclined to stall Lucky, but not entirely stuff him.
I would have thought that would have been obvious to you.  |
My point, in case you're not getting it, is that Mongoose has already made a ruling on the WW issue which clearly states that after 5 turns of no-combat an enforced peace must ensue.
Now, since it takes 4 out of 5 teams to make a ruling (and GWT has apparently showed that they are favorable to this proposal), why in bloody hell do we need to continue negotiating with this asswipe at all?.
It's either 1) the five turns or 2) an enforced ruling by 4/5 teams. Take your pick. Continuing this meaningless charade with Lucky gets us absolutely nowhere which is what I am basically saying...
... in case it wasn't obvious to you 
-MZ
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Apolyton Time is 00:34. |
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22-02-2004 23:13
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