25-02-2004 07:54									#151
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This is the most ridiculous argument against gay marriages, I ever heard.
Why does this Senator think that gay marriages would lead to Incest?
Has he any Statistics where most gay people with children say, that they would love to marry their son?

	25-02-2004 07:56									#152
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perhaps he's a closet NAMBLA member.

	25-02-2004 07:57									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph In your dream.

Of course,
a lot of people around the world (inside as well as outside of America)
dream of a big Defeat for Bush in the coming Elections

	25-02-2004 08:21									#154
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Santorum is a mouth-breathing buffoon. He was the ****wit who came out in favor of anti-"sodomy" laws a few months ago, using the exact same argument he is using now.

I can't help but wonder if the good people of Pennsylvania are having buyer's remorse.

	25-02-2004 08:21									#155
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan I think there are too separate debates going on here. One is about the meaning of the term "marriage", and its long-standing social and religious meaning that it imparts The other is about the family structure in general and how homosexuals should or should have a part is this. Conservative groups, if they want to make a solid argument (I am not a conservative) should focus on these points. Give me data that tells me that children adopted by homosexual couples are more likely to be homosexual, have more troubles lives, etc., from countries where gay marriage is legal now and/or focus on the religious connection (even if marriage is technical not religious act) I really get turned off when I hear agruments like: 1. The "This will lead to incest" argument given above 2. Homosexual relationships are less stable - Well..I would find it less enticing to stay in a relationship also If I couldnt get married, raise children, or gain financial benifits from maintaing a relationship. 50 % of heterosexual relationshis do end in divorce, even given the above. 3. This will cause the collapse of civilation like it did to the Roman Empire. Were all Barbarians gay? ZZZzzzz

If the point of all this is to have gays claim the "right" to adopt and raise kids, then you will get 90% of the people against you.

Also your note suggests that it is society'ss duty to justify its current preference to raise kids in traditional families and to oppose divorce. Those who advocate radical change have the burden of proof by at least clear and convincing evidence.

	25-02-2004 08:25									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Actually this amendment is unconstitutional. That is impossible, Giancarlo. Amendments can't be unconstitutional, no matter WHAT!

	25-02-2004 08:46									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Actually amendments can be unconstitutional and can be removed because of that. You are the biggest moron in the history of the world, aren't you? Can you name any amendment which has been removed for being 'unconstitutional'?

It wasn't technically removed, but remember the amendment on prohibition??

	25-02-2004 08:47									#158
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST After thinking some time about it I wouldn´t say that it is neither Discrimination against Gender nor sexual Orientation. You can marry someone, regardless of wether you are male or female, as long as the other person is of the opposite sex. But there is also no discrimination in sexual orientation. Regardless of wether you are Homo or Heterosexual you are allowed to marry, as long as you marry a Person of the opposite Sex (and after all there is no law that says, that you have to feel love or sexual desire for your partner to marry him/her) So I would call it rather some form of Discrimination against the "homosexual lifestyle", as homosexual lifestyle involves living together with a partner of the same sex.

You seem to be an idiot.

The problem that we have, is not that we're denied getting married to someone of the opposite gender. Our problem is that we are not recognized when marrying someone of the same gender.

	25-02-2004 08:54									#159
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You seem to be an idiot.

And you seem to be asking to be restricted.

If you can't discuss this topic without calling people morons and idiots... or other insults... don't bother, or you will get restricted.

	25-02-2004 09:44									#160
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Haha! Wrong! There are 3 (now really 2) amendments that are unconstitutional: (1) Ending the slave trade before 1808 (now obsolete) (2) Depriving a state of equal representation in the Senate. (3) Creating titles of nobility. The costitution forbids these and amendments that would allow these.

I don't recall seeing that in the Constitution.

	25-02-2004 09:57									#161
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quote: Haha! Wrong! There are 3 (now really 2) amendments that are unconstitutional: (1) Ending the slave trade before 1808 (now obsolete) (2) Depriving a state of equal representation in the Senate. (3) Creating titles of nobility. The costitution forbids these and amendments that would allow these.

You are kidding right? Amendments can never be unconstitutional, since they are part of the Constitution. All they have to say is that they are repudiating earlier provisions of the Constitution (as was done with the 12th Amendment). Basically say we are striking those provisions and now are doing X. Since the amendment is later, it has precedence over earlier Constitutional provisions. Basically Article 5 has no real power to bind future governments.

	25-02-2004 09:58									#162
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quote: It wasn't technically removed, but remember the amendment on prohibition??

Which had to be taken out of the Constitution by a SUBSEQUENT AMENDMENT!

	25-02-2004 10:11									#163
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Did anyone see that the head of the transexual vietnam veterans association asked Kerry if he would fund veterans hospitals to perform sexual reassignments.

And Bush thinks he faces politically difficult questions.

	25-02-2004 11:05									#164
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"and conservatives, I thought you dopes didn't like the federal government telling you what to do... I guess you turn a blind eye to authoritarian crap like this"

Get it through your skull, Sava, conservatism != Libertarianism.

The most recent polls I have seen showed a majority in favour of such an amendment.

	25-02-2004 11:15									#165
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I hope this amendment goes through; it would allow the country to come to a consensus on this issue at its own pace and then repeal the amendment at a later date. Certainly a better course of action than letting Massachusetts and San Francisco force a divisive change in social mores on the rest of the country.

	25-02-2004 12:24									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And you seem to be asking to be restricted. If you can't discuss this topic without calling people morons and idiots... or other insults... don't bother, or you will get restricted.

You forgot the time that monkspider called me an idiot? So I thought this would be acceptable.



guess not

	25-02-2004 12:25									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: It wasn't technically removed, but remember the amendment on prohibition?? Which had to be taken out of the Constitution by a SUBSEQUENT AMENDMENT!

But it was still removed.

	25-02-2004 12:30									#168
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What are conservatives afraid of?

I mean, if gay people are allowed to get married, will the world suddenly end? Will alleys be filled with homosexuals waiting to pounce on passing children? Will all the television channels end up showing 24 hour buggery? (actually, that would be an improvement). Will morality collapse?

I mean, in the absence of any negative consequences the whole thing seems harmless.

And if anyone is going to push that "defence of marriage" crap, take a look at the divorce rate. The institution of marriage has bigger problems than trying to find a wedding gown to fit Mr Fun.

	25-02-2004 12:32									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The institution of marriage has bigger problems than trying to find a wedding gown to fit Mr Fun.

Yes, because I'm overweight at 5'8" and 140 pounds?

	25-02-2004 12:44									#170
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Anyway, what's wrong with conservatives? Let's take a look at their record and some of the things they've opposed.

1. The abolition of slavery.
2. Equal rights for black people.
3. Interracial marriage.
4. The theory of evolution.
5. Equal rights for women.
6. Universal suffrage.
7. The rights of the poor, sick, elderly, etc.
8. Sexual Freedom.
9. Social drinking.
10. Homosexuals.
11. Those harmless men who like to dress in women's clothing.
12. Telling the truth about our past misdeeds.
13. Harmless, recreational drugs.
14. Abortion - without having any worthwhile plan for what to do with unwanted children or pregnant women.
15. Rock music.
16. Blues music.
17. Soul music.
18. Fun.
19. Happiness.
20. Sex education.
21. Contraception.
22. Equality.
23. Books.
24. Video games.
25. Television.
26. Masturbation.

And some of the things they've supported

1. Jew baiting and other forms of racial prejudice.
2. Hitler.
3. Nuclear Weapons/Mass Militarization.
4. Dangerous drugs manufactured by huge corporations.
5. Flogging.
6. Shame.
7. Bigotry.
8. Arming lunatic regimes.
9. Lying to get into wars against said regimes.
10. Beating small children.
11. The Death Penalty.
12. Censorship.
13. Not telling anyone anything about sex and not letting them do it until their wedding night, with predictable results.
14. Ugly, unfashionable clothing.
15. The private right to own a machine gun or field howitzer.

etc. etc.

	25-02-2004 12:53									#171
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Agathon, the democratic party was associated with the KKK.

Additionally, don't make sweeping generalizations like that. I am what you call a John McCain republican... Bush has made me mad on this issue. Not all republicans (and not even most are like that).

	25-02-2004 13:10									#172
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You are not, nor have you ever been a John McCain Republican.

John McCain Republicans everywhere are falling all over themselves to deny any association with you.

And I said conservatives. I said nothing about the Democrats, some of whom are/were conservative.

	25-02-2004 13:11									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You are not, nor have you ever been a John McCain Republican.

You can't prove otherwise, dude.

quote: John McCain Republicans everywhere are falling all over themselves to deny any association with you.

With all due respect, you are a nescient fool.

	25-02-2004 13:14									#174
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Why is it that everything you say is a transparent falsehood?

	25-02-2004 13:51									#175
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No.. maybe you should be asking that yourself you liar... you lie to yourself and you lie to everybody on this forum.

	25-02-2004 13:58									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Why is it that everything you say is a transparent falsehood?

Pantocrator Agathon - Pedro Poopy Pants has described you as a nescient fool.

Are you going to take that lying down, or are you going to get postal and use some Ancient Greek on him?

Logomachically yours,

in the Conclave of Moronia

Abbess Molly

	25-02-2004 14:03									#177
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Can you speak english so that all of us can understand?

I am only here to weed out liars.

	25-02-2004 14:08									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Can you speak english so that all of us can understand? I am only here to weed out liars.

No habl' Ingles.




PPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRP
PPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	25-02-2004 14:12									#179
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MOLLY!! MOLLY!!

	25-02-2004 14:15									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon MOLLY!! MOLLY!!

Good golly!

Awopbopaloobopalopbamboom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to go- I'm cooking polenta and spinach with beef and roast roma tomatoes.

Apple and strawberry granita for dessert.