29-02-2004 17:16									#31
	Got spare money?

So bad bar+ignorance of local customs=bad news.

Then again maybe your friend just got lucky but he got VERY lucky then. Anyway having the toerh guy hiring mobsters to kill him goes a bit too far isn't it? Unless the bar was a real shithole and the people who frequent there are too. But it does sounds a bit like paranoia but you know best. maybe.

	29-02-2004 17:42									#32
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Jesus, that's ****ed up, DaShi...

	29-02-2004 19:45									#33
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It has nothing to do with local customs. China doesn't have as many customs for courtesy as Japan does. They even have less than the West except when addressing a superior.

This bar tries to encourage foreigners to come there only because they want their money. I've been there before with no probelms. This guy was just a *****. I've heard that he has gotten into fights before with foreigners and even other Chinese. It clearly wasn't about his girlfriend as he had no concern for her after throwing a bottle at her face. Just some frustrated loser with low self-esteem.

	29-02-2004 20:21									#34
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Chinese don't exactly have a reputation as gang-bangers.

They have a 5000 year reputation for gang thugery and corruption, at least among those who can read. Even know the goverment is busy touting china umteenth crusade against endemic corruption.

	29-02-2004 21:49									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola They have a 5000 year reputation for gang thugery and corruption, at least among those who can read.

	29-02-2004 21:52									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Yep. Now organized crime will arrive to HK, as well!

Aren't gangs everywhere? I mean, the Yakuza is particularly notorious. Hack, they even operate in the open.

	29-02-2004 22:52									#37
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Unfortunately DaShi, lefty is correct in his statement concerning corruption and gang thuggery. Very often if you want complete safety in areas like that, you are better off finding who to pay off (gangs and/or police) and paying them a monthly protection fee. The problem is they will jack it up because as a foreigner they both dislike you and perceive you as having more cash. China has never had a judicial system that resembles what we have here in the west, and what we consider corruption and blatant unfairness are the norm. The only chance the typical Westerner has is if he is connected to a large company who has an active and desired prescence in the district. Then you get action. If you are working for someone, or your friend is, with connections have HIM (her is unlikely in China, again for cultural reasons) file a complaint with his equivalent in the police system.

Throughout Asia there is very little, if not absolutely no, tradition of tolerance. I assume you are fluent in Chinese which helps considerably, but you are still, and any children if you should you marry a local woman, be considered second class citizens at best. This has nothing to do with "developing" or "industrial", Japan is exactly the same way. Tibet might have been the only exception, which makes my point for me.

	29-02-2004 23:06									#38
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DaShi, do you and your friend happen to be Japanese? If you are, then you are screwed in China. They would hate you with a passion.

	29-02-2004 23:07									#39
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:

	01-03-2004 00:06									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger

I had been reading of various eras of gang thuggery, warlord thuggery, and omnipresent corruption there since I was a child. Its modern forms were popular subjects in both USA and Brit film industries from the 1930s onward. I suppose is is not a popular subject among the current censors within China, but the reputation is almost stereo-typlical here, much of it as portrayed in films is BS of course.

	01-03-2004 00:18									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi It has nothing to do with local customs. China doesn't have as many customs for courtesy as Japan does. They even have less than the West except when addressing a superior. This bar tries to encourage foreigners to come there only because they want their money. I've been there before with no probelms. This guy was just a *****. I've heard that he has gotten into fights before with foreigners and even other Chinese. It clearly wasn't about his girlfriend as he had no concern for her after throwing a bottle at her face. Just some frustrated loser with low self-esteem.

Then I guess your friend just got very lucky... And what else would they want you for DaShi if not for your money??!!!

In any case it doesn't explain the bartender beating your friend. If anything he should have tried to calm the spirits. **** happens

	01-03-2004 01:34									#42
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Yeh, I'm sort of confused as to why the bartender got involved.

	01-03-2004 08:40									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola I had been reading of various eras of gang thuggery, warlord thuggery, and omnipresent corruption there since I was a child.

I don't deny that occurred some of the time. With a history of thousands of years, that is to be expected. There were good years, there were bad years. Some emperors were good (a few were even great), some were tyrants, and some were idiots. The country was unified at times, splintered at others.

Sounds quite normal to me.

	01-03-2004 08:44									#44
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc China has never had a judicial system that resembles what we have here in the west, and what we consider corruption and blatant unfairness are the norm.

No doubt you gleaned this knowledge from not so scholarly sources.

	01-03-2004 10:33									#45
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Live with it Urbie.

Lord M. neither myself or my friend are japanese, contrary to popular belief. Our group consisted of two Americans, a French man, and an Irish man.

The bartender is an *******. Afterwards at the police station he was trying to be all friendly with us. Afraid of losing foreign customers.

	01-03-2004 10:50									#46
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The police were probably trying to squeeze a few bucks out of your pockets. Corrupt as usual.

	01-03-2004 11:32									#47
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I think that the police didn't really care and just wanted to close the case as soon as possible. But some of the other foreigners who have lived here longer were screaming "racism."

	01-03-2004 11:38									#48
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You aren't in any danger of being deported, are you? That's what will happen to me if I ever get involved in a fight here, whether I'm at fault or not.

	01-03-2004 11:45									#49
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No, I wasn't really involved. I just tried to help people up and hold people back. Generally, keep people from getting hurt. Besides our school can't afford to loose a foreign teacher. Plus, some of the other teachers involved mentioned leaving which set them in a panic. Generally, the school is worried about losing face from this situation and sending us home would only create bad publicity for it.

	01-03-2004 11:50									#50
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Two things that surprised me.

First, the obvious hatred of foreigners. The bartender took the side of the Chinese person even though he clearly was the aggressor.

Second, the indifference of police to crimes committed against foreigners.

DaShi, Perhaps you should talk to the Party about this.

	01-03-2004 11:50									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You aren't in any danger of being deported, are you? That's what will happen to me if I ever get involved in a fight here, whether I'm at fault or not.

So I could go there, throw a punch at you, and you'd be sent back to the US?

	01-03-2004 11:57									#52
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quote: So I could go there, throw a punch at you, and you'd be sent back to the US?

No, because you're a foreigner too. I could beat you to within an inch of your life (the most likely outcome) and no one would care...

I just can't fight with Japanese people.

	01-03-2004 12:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ned DaShi, Perhaps you should talk to the Party about this.

We are. Our school has 'connections.'

	01-03-2004 12:06									#54
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quote: No, because you're a foreigner too.

But surely they'd expell you and not me, since

1. Your a Japanese sympathiser
2. Your a capitalist
3. Your not a communist
4. I'm a communist
5. I'm not a capitalist

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I could beat you to within an inch of your life

Remember that I'm a commie. I'm experienced in the ways of killing people

quote: I just can't fight with Japanese people.

Wouldn't that be encouraged in China?

	01-03-2004 12:07									#55
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He's not in China. He's in Japaneseland.

	01-03-2004 12:09									#56
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Bah.

Japan
China

	01-03-2004 12:13									#57
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quote: He's not in China. He's in Japaneseland.

You'd think the flag would've given it away, but I guess one of Tass's several wives must've been distracting him.

	01-03-2004 12:13									#58
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I thought you were a communist Tass. China's about as communist as America these days. The Japanese are closer to communism than either of those two.

	01-03-2004 12:15									#59
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Japan is uberevilimperialist though.
China is a modernizing nation with a great culture, a long and fresh history, and a great modern day nation

quote: You'd think the flag would've given it away,

Oh bah.

quote: but I guess one of Tass's several wives must've been distracting him.

Go away Gaijin.

	01-03-2004 12:16									#60
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quote: Go away Gaijin.

I'm 6000 miles away from Utah. Can't get much farther away than that... thank god.