03-03-2004 05:33									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Japher This is good news, and I hope there is life on Mars so that once and for all I can't stop hearing that stupid story about Adam and Eve.

So tell us again how a booger riding on an icy comet for 500,000 trillion years flew through Jupiter, then richoceted off mars and crashed into earth bringing life,water, and atmosphere as we know it.

	03-03-2004 05:37									#62
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quote: Originally posted by dainbramage20 I dont understand some things about this tho. Mars may have only been wet for a few hundred thousand years. What conditions were different during those years that are different now? Surely something catalysmic must have happened. Or the planets core is cold and was fubared. Or wasnt it foobared since its creation??? It was only internally active for the first 100 million years. Seems red-faced scientists have alot of updating of there history books, as usual . Clearly the pieces of the puzzle wont fit with the current mars timeline. The good news about life....... This lends new credibility to the ancient/present life on mars theory. If fossils are found, Simple or complex, the the atmosphere may have been thriving with life. Then it may turn out that the structures at the mysterouis 'Cydonia' site are infact evidence of an ancient civilization. Which excites me greatly. I thought the smooth like Pyramid stuctures were strange since Viking first took them.

There are two Theories I know from:
1. Mars Atmosphere was denser in the Past than it is today. Buit as Mars is much smaller than earth it couldnīt hold its Atmosphere and most of it slowly disappeared into space (with a less dense atmosphere also leading to colder Temperatures)
2. As Mars is smaller than Earth its Planet Core cooled down after some Million (or Billion) of Years. This lead to a Stop in Tectonic Activity and also to a Stop in Heating the Surface of the Planet from below (and also in less/no volcanic acticity from this point on).

Both changes may have played a role in changing the climate of Mars.

	03-03-2004 05:45									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST 2. As Mars is smaller than Earth its Planet Core cooled down after some Million (or Billion) of Years. This lead to a Stop in Tectonic Activity and also to a Stop in Heating the Surface of the Planet from below (and also in less/no volcanic acticity from this point on).

There are a few but you touched on the best ones.


Yup. I assume a warmer core would of kept the water from freezing. As of now its a bit too cold. Mars is pretty damn hospitable by human standards. In the Summer it can reach 40 F around the equator. But winter can drop Below 250F around the poles.

quote: 1. Mars Atmosphere was denser in the Past than it is today. Buit as Mars is much smaller than earth it couldnīt hold its Atmosphere and most of it slowly disappeared into space (with a less dense atmosphere also leading to colder Temperatures)

Well it couldnt hold its atmosphere without an active core or an Magnetic Field (In all theories, it has niether)
I think Martian Internal activitiy is measured anywhere from 10-100 million years. A pretty small window for any life to evolve or land there, or whatever. But nonetheless Im guessing its only a matter of time before the figure is changed too give some kind of hope for finding life.

Martian summer would sound pretty good right now

	03-03-2004 08:18									#64
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Is it Possible?

Say you find three microbes on three different planets in different solar systems. The three microbes are similar but on variable progressions of evolutionary stages. Would it from this information be possible to triangulate the original source of the microbe? That is the star system that the microbe originated in.

	03-03-2004 08:40									#65
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Now is there oil? That would be a sure sign of life once existing on Mars.

	03-03-2004 08:49									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Is it Possible? Say you find three microbes on three different planets in different solar systems. The three microbes are similar but on variable progressions of evolutionary stages. Would it from this information be possible to triangulate the original source of the microbe? That is the star system that the microbe originated in.

Extremly difficulty if not even impossible.
Bacteriae are known to mutate at an extremly high rate.
For one because they are known to be able to share Genes, and because they have a very short Lifespan until they are replaced by the next Generation of Bacteriae (those are also the tow reasons, why Bacteriae are so fast in obtaining Immunity from sdeveral Antibiotica )

So, even if you know that these 3 Microbes have a common ancestor, you couldnīt say where it originated, as the genetic setup of each Bacteria Colony would have been very probably totally altered (from the genetic setup of their ancestor) during their stay in the any of the 3 Environments after a very short time.

	03-03-2004 08:57									#67
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"Let's hope not the life I know from "Mars Attacks""

Bebro, think again, the blonde chick in that flick had a nice set of cones.

I hope there's ancient oil and/or coal on Mars that we can turn into rocket fuel.

	03-03-2004 09:01									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Is it Possible? Say you find three microbes on three different planets in different solar systems. The three microbes are similar but on variable progressions of evolutionary stages. Would it from this information be possible to triangulate the original source of the microbe? That is the star system that the microbe originated in.

I am a firm believer in Evolution but hold its core beliefs up to a different standard than most. Most noticeably I inject an element of Religon that Evolution lacks when asking the question why?

In any case it would most likely have earthly origins. Lets also not forget Human microbe's and bacteria are already festering on the moon, mars, venus, and Jupiter. I read a doc about when we do go back to the moon how shocked we are gonna be that there will suddenly be 'life'. . Mutated and sparse but it will be there. Bacteria is cannibalistic in nature. Can survive anywhere

They used the moon as a testing pad of sorts (unknowingly) so as to find way not to contaminate later exploration sites (Europa, Titan, Euclyadues, other outer Solar systems satelittes that show possible life). Hence why the probe Galileo was crashed into Jupiter and not Europa as planned.

	03-03-2004 09:12									#69
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I wonder how evolved life might have been on Mars?

	03-03-2004 09:14									#70
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I wonder how evolved life might have been on Mars?

The same must be asked of an earth where thousands of lives are slaughtered daily.

	03-03-2004 09:29									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Now is there oil? That would be a sure sign of life once existing on Mars.

That would be a sure sign that there are weapons of mass destruction hidden on Mars.

	03-03-2004 09:32									#72
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel The same must be asked of an earth where thousands of lives are slaughtered daily.

Excellent point.

	03-03-2004 10:15									#73
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quote: Could a signal from the stars broadcast by an alien intelligence also carry harmful information, in the spirit of a computer virus? Could star folk launch a "disinformation" campaign -- one that covers up aspects of their culture? Perhaps they might even mask the "real" intent of dispatching a message to other civilizations scattered throughout the Cosmos.

Oh yeah. Here's somebody who doesn't know which end of his body he talks out from. Computer virus? Disinformation campaign? Oh brother. I would laugh my head off if this is not so pathetic.

quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc It would be especially dangerous if it was proven that mars once contained more advanced forms of life, since the microbes may have been designed to destroy.

Microbes designed to destroy Martian lifeforms is highly improbable to infect living organisms on earth, seeing that the evolutionary path of lifeforms on the two planets are unlikely to be similar.

quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc And the microbes might carry computer vira within them, capable of transmitting themselves deep into any analytical computer which is exposed to the data.

I don't know what are you on, but it must be really potent.

	03-03-2004 10:35									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Bacteriae are known to mutate at an extremly high rate. For one because they are known to be able to share Genes, and because they have a very short Lifespan until they are replaced by the next Generation of Bacteriae.

Presuming that it is indeed possible to prove that each microbe originates from the same source.

Each local strain will be placed on the bacterial tree of life. From that the arrival of the microbe on the planet it is inhabiting can be dated, however inaccuarately depending on radiation levels and so on, but they can be corrected for. Each mircobe will have a different arrival time so planet a have +x, planet b +y, planet z +c.

Then the distance to the source may be deduced, by triangulating the position (although I am not quite sure how that would be done in a three dimensional space), and the origin of life in the universe may be found.

What I need to know is if it is possible to triangulate a position if you do not know the distance, but only the variations of arrival time for each planet. In short I am not quite sure about this triangulation thing. Any mathematicians out there?

	03-03-2004 10:38									#75
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Why would the microbes be spreading at a constant rate away from the point of origin?

Plus, if life on earth didn't originate on earth, the stuff that came here was VERY primitive - not even really a cell.

	03-03-2004 10:59									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Each local strain will be placed on the bacterial tree of life.

That's not a bacterial tree of life. Bacteria have a strict biological definition.

	03-03-2004 11:08									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's not a bacterial tree of life. Bacteria have a strict biological definition.

I am not sure what you mean. There must be different types of bacterial strains. Some more complex than others. Do you mean all bacteria evolved in lines from one original bacteria, and no bacteria evolved further by themselves and broke off from these lines creating new strains?

	03-03-2004 11:13									#78
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All bacteria have a "common ancestor".

(Incidentially, some primary-source articles we were reading in AP Biology indicate that this "common ancestor" was not, in fact, a single cell but rather a community of proto-cells, with the primary mechanism of inheritence being mobile genetic elements rather than parent-child.)

	03-03-2004 11:23									#79
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Why would the microbes be spreading at a constant rate away from the point of origin?

Interplanetary diffusion of life goes on at fairly a constant rate, compared to the long timespan. However, interstallar diffusion is perhaps another matter. I am not quite sure how life is supposed to travel from star system to star system.

	03-03-2004 11:46									#80
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Cometary bodies flung out-system by close encounters with a gas giant or star.

	03-03-2004 12:47									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer I hope there's ancient oil and/or coal on Mars that we can turn into rocket fuel.

Wouldn't that be a quite slow and dirty rocket?

	03-03-2004 14:23									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc I am not sure what you mean. There must be different types of bacterial strains. Some more complex than others. Do you mean all bacteria evolved in lines from one original bacteria, and no bacteria evolved further by themselves and broke off from these lines creating new strains?

Background information

	03-03-2004 16:45									#83
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What says any possible micro organisms on Mars would be bacteria? They are probably a class of organisms not really applicable to our known terrestrial classifications.

	03-03-2004 18:15									#84
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quote: Mars is pretty damn hospitable by human standards. In the Summer it can reach 40 F around the equator. But winter can drop Below 250F around the poles.

Sounds like Duluth...

	03-03-2004 20:58									#85
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mars is a cold dead world. you will find that it always has been a cold dead world. nasa comes out and claims it found that water was (at one time) there on mars. well no duh! i could have told you that for a lot less than 800 million freakin bucks. there are pictures of old river beds - you can see from space that at one time water flowed. now, from those pics you can't say where the water came from, how long it was there and where it went. but, these questions are still unknowns. i bet mars was cold and dead probably not long after it formed. the core probably cooled in less than a billion years. no ozone, no magnetic field, probably never much for an atmosphere - not what i would call a place good for life. at least a not a good place for life to START.

say what you will... in the end i'll be right!

	04-03-2004 02:03									#86
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Mars still has a small % of Oxygen, its now evident that water did once flow, and there is evidence to suggest it still remains in ice form.

As for what happened to it, well, there are as many theories as people interested in the subject. I prefer the disaster scenario, where Mars was hit by meteorite (no coincidence that it lies right next to the asteroid belt), lost enough mass to reduce the planets gravity below the trickle point. At this point, water cannot hold the oxygen and hydrogen, and splits up, Hydrogen making a rather quick exit, and Oxygen slowly following. The vast majority of Oxygen that did remain, bonded with Carbon forming Carbon dioxide, and hence we have 96% CO2, 2% O2, 2% other atmosphere.

As for life, well .. all I can say is, there are some pretty unhospitable places on earth, and still we find life there .. It seems whenever we draw limits on where life can exist, we go and find some where we didn't believe it possible.

We are explorers by nature, and the experience that colonising the moon and mars will bring (if we ever get round to it) will help the future generations one day finally move out of this system. If we can build colonies on the moon and mars, who needs a earth like planet ?? any lump of rock with the basic elements will do

	04-03-2004 03:16									#87
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Mars have this huge inner core of ice, thought this was a common knowledge?

Arnold Schwarzenegger even went there!

	04-03-2004 03:21									#88
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No .. that hasn't happened .. YET !

	04-03-2004 03:28									#89
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Sure it have in Total Rekall

	04-03-2004 03:34									#90
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The Viceroy, you post implies that we could make Mars habitable again by adding just a little more mass. How much more do we need?