08-03-2004 08:56									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And we've all established that your opinion means little .

I concede you this. I think apolyton underestimates me, in part because I post here to improve my English. In my philosophy department I pwn everyone.

...yeah that's it...

You still never realized that the war of everyone against everyone means we have a right to everything in the state of nature.

	08-03-2004 08:58									#212
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As it is right now, 10.55 PM Eastern time, I have updated the nominations

Keep the nominations coming.

BTW, Berzerker, I can't count your votes.

	08-03-2004 08:59									#213
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quote: You still never realized that the war of everyone against everyone means we have a right to everything in the state of nature.

And you got so pwned on this fact by asserting the utter ridiculousness than the right to nothing = right to everything, I wonder why ANYONE takes you seriously?

	08-03-2004 09:11									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And you got so pwned on this fact by asserting the utter ridiculousness than the right to nothing = right to everything, I wonder why ANYONE takes you seriously?

There is a book, taught in all Universities in the world, called the 'Leviathan' and written by an Englishman named Thomas Hobbes, whose life spawned from 1588 to 1679, which defends the exact same theory.

	08-03-2004 09:15									#215
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Well at least we know you are a Hobbesian. Explains a lot... especially since he's kinda been discredited... well except in the brutal monarchies of the world .

And from what I remember, Hobbes defended a theory that in a state of nature there is a right to nothing. Not a right to everything, which is something only a King can have.

	08-03-2004 09:20									#216
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Wait, you fool.

I am not an Hobbesian. I never said that I believe in rights of nature.

My intervention in the debate was to say that IF there are rights of nature, they can only have been like Hobbes described them.

And Hobbes has been discredited because of his views on human nature (rational selfishness), not because his theory is inconsistent, far from that.

I think there is a difference between being an pwned idiot and defending something said by Hobbes.

	08-03-2004 09:21									#217
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Thanks for updating.

How about also giving everybody one blocking vote, to strike one of the nominations off the list?

	08-03-2004 09:25									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And from what I remember, Hobbes defended a theory that in a state of nature there is a right to nothing. Not a right to everything, which is something only a King can have.

You are an Hobbesian yourself- that you know it or not, many ideas you defend are very Hobbesian in nature.

Basically, Hobbes said that everyone believes they have a right to anything, and will only cede it to a Leviathan. The Leviathan has a right to everything by virtue of positive right, not natural right.

	08-03-2004 09:32									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris You are an Hobbesian yourself- that you know it or not, many ideas you defend are very Hobbesian in nature. Basically, Hobbes said that everyone believes they have a right to anything, and will only cede it to a Leviathan. The Leviathan has a right to everything by virtue of positive right, not natural right.

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Please, Asher FakeBoris, NOT IN THIS THREAD.

	08-03-2004 09:35									#220
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Asher, you forgot the 'my love' part. Ahem, yeah.

	08-03-2004 10:03									#221
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quote: My intervention in the debate was to say that IF there are rights of nature, they can only have been like Hobbes described them.

Funny you forgot about that other English philosopher, Locke.. call yourself a philosophy person do you .

quote: Basically, Hobbes said that everyone believes they have a right to anything, and will only cede it to a Leviathan. The Leviathan has a right to everything by virtue of positive right, not natural right.

Yes, they believe they have a right to anything, but yet, in actuality they have a right to nothing (since their 'right' can be taken away by the stronger). That is why they MUST have a Leviathan so that he can grant them the right to life and security. The Leviathan is the only one who has a right to everything.

quote: You are an Hobbesian yourself- that you know it or not, many ideas you defend are very Hobbesian in nature.

Such as? I've never known myself to defend total 'security'.

	08-03-2004 10:05									#222
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Imran, we shouldn't be debating this right now in this thread. My assignment for Tuesday is to read Locke, so your time waiting won't have been wated.

	08-03-2004 10:25									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I haven't

You have to have actually engaged in a debate 1st.

	08-03-2004 10:27									#224
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true, one swish from my mighty tail is usually enough.

	08-03-2004 10:29									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Theben - I've never seen DF lose a debate and that includes the one time he and I were debating the validity of Gulf War II... Maybe DF knows of a debate he feels he lost, but I don't and I see no proof from you.

Woah, no Thieven?! You must be in a good mood today.

I'm sure DF doesn't feel he ever lost a debate. But you can't claim 'victory' when the other side(s) leave in frustruation b/c one constantly repeats the same false premise over and over.

quote: David loses a debate the moment he opens his mouth.

What Slowwy said.

	08-03-2004 10:30									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse true, one swish from my mighty tail is usually enough.

The smell is enough to drive us away.

	08-03-2004 10:33									#227
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far too many mass debaters here

	08-03-2004 11:09									#228
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MTG
Chegitz Guevera
Imran Siddiqui

	08-03-2004 11:15									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Wait, you fool. I am not an Hobbesian. I never said that I believe in rights of nature. My intervention in the debate was to say that IF there are rights of nature, they can only have been like Hobbes described them. And Hobbes has been discredited because of his views on human nature (rational selfishness), not because his theory is inconsistent, far from that. I think there is a difference between being an pwned idiot and defending something said by Hobbes.

These are the worst kinds of debates.


Philosophical clan wars.

Too categorical.

Too "sophomore in college getting first taste of independence and smoked too much before coming to class and is starting to reshape world view based on limited amount of new knowledge" annoying.

	08-03-2004 11:15									#230
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It's better to just post Britney pics and talk about hoes.

	08-03-2004 11:16									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Too "sophomore in college getting first taste of independence and smoked too much before coming to class and is starting to reshape world view based on limited amount of new knowledge" annoying.

	08-03-2004 11:19									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Asher is an expert in the technical area.

In some technical areas. My reading of his knowledge is that of a technician's, not an engineer's. YMMV.

	08-03-2004 11:20									#233
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What does YMMV mean?

Is that like YMCA?

	08-03-2004 11:21									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Everybody has lost a debate and that includes MTG

Did I just agree with Ted?

	08-03-2004 11:22									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What does YMMV mean? Is that like YMCA?

Your milage may vary.

	08-03-2004 11:25									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger In some technical areas. My reading of his knowledge is that of a technician's, not an engineer's. YMMV.

Technician my ass.

An "engineer" is one who is interested in the practical aspects of their field.

The difference between a technician and an engineer is a technician is trained in low-level tasks and mostly as someone who fixes things or sets things up. An engineer is the person who designs such things.

I don't know how you'd gather that I'm a technician -- a few summers ago I worked at Voodoo and built computers, but I've also worked as a software engineer more recently, and all of my education is either science, math, or engineering -- no technician-like things.

	08-03-2004 12:08									#237
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quote: It's better to just post Britney pics and talk about hoes.

Word.

	08-03-2004 12:58									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I challenge anyone to support his ridiculous viewpoint I thought I made that clear in the thread?

Then you too are a fool in this respect. The facts go the other way. I'd post more, but UR already closed the thread.

	08-03-2004 12:59									#239
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Everyone's a fool but you, huh.

	08-03-2004 13:19									#240
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Nope, those who possess common sense and can read are exempted. Obviously, you don't fall into that class.