10-03-2004 11:43									#1
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OK

so the other thread got off-topic, and was about something else anyways

so now I am playing, I can post sort of what has occured

but anyways, I am leveling up

I would like to be an Incantrix (sort of a specialist Abjurer), but I need to find someone who can teach me to be one (So while I have the level and other requirements for it right now, I am not one right now)

so right now I am a standard wizard

my familiar is a Toad

I am 5 level (but have gained the XP to reach 6th level)

I have 22 HP, feats are Iron Will, Combat Casting, Widen Spell

I am a Sun Elf

Int is 21, Dex is 14, Wis is 8, Con is 10, Str is 8, Cha is 12

I have a lot of spells of the first 3 levels including but not limited to:
hold portal
identify
magic missile
color spray
spider climb
obscure object
resist elements
summon monster 2
blur
cat's grace
dispel magic
explosive runes
arcane sight
fireball
lightning bolt
haste

and I think some more that I am not remembering right now (might also have got one wrong)

so basically I need suggestions about
feats to get (I need two, one meta magic, one general)
spells to get (I think I need two)
prohibited schools to take (I need two, I can cast what spells in them that I already know)

Jon Miller

	10-03-2004 12:24									#2
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I don't think you need any item creation feats. There's one that allows you to cast spells right away, that should be a good one. For the general one, Lightning Reflex (the one that gives you +4 initiative) is good.

	10-03-2004 13:23									#3
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Yeah, but "Faster spell" (don't know the english name) casts as if 3 levels higher. That's crappy when you can only cast 3rd level spells

For the general one, I'd take "Weapon Finesse", as this equals a +3 to hit for you in melee (not to bad) or perhaps improve your bow skills (above the Sun Elf basic proficiancy) I always think a low level wizard needs a "back-up-plan"

Or : the best of all back-up-plans take "Craft Wand" and craft a wand of magic missiles and a wand of "Fireball" and never run out again. Wants are pretty cheap to craft too.

As for spells... "Bull's Strength" (level 2) is brilliant, and you are lacking an immobilising spell such as "web" or "hold person".

-Jam

	10-03-2004 13:46									#4
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I tend to go for feats that improve your chances of landing your spells on opponents (spell focus/ spell penetration.) I tend to prefer incapacitating my opponents rather than nuking them so anything that lowers their chance to resist is a must.

Being prohibited from two schools is pretty harsh. I think you need to look carefully at the manuals and decide for yourself which higher level spells you never ever want. I have a hard enough time choosing one school, but perhaps divination wouldn't be so bad to lose if you already have detect magic, identify and the other low level utility spells.

	10-03-2004 13:46									#5
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Probably cheaper to buy a wand of magic missiles. Weapon Finesse isn't bad but the plan is not to get into melee.

	10-03-2004 16:17									#6
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you can't choose divination as your prohibited school (it is too weak)

I don't want to pick weapon finess because it and eschew materials were given to all characters at first level

bull's strength is a good idea if I don't already have it

I am actually semi considering evocation (As a prohibited school), I mean I have a lot of the standards (magic missile, fireball, lightning bolt) already....

a reminder http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

and a completer list of spells http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010713a

JM

	10-03-2004 16:29									#7
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I mean

things like Shadow Evocation might make Evocation no longer as useful?

JM

	10-03-2004 16:32									#8
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basically there is another save (Will) for the Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration spells

and damage and the like is multiplied by .2 or .6 if the save is made

(Otherwise full)

JM

	10-03-2004 16:33									#9
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Then definitely craft wand. The costs are miniscule (considering the number of charges is normally 50, IIRC) and the rewards are great. Basically, you NEVER run out of combat spells, in exchange for dumping perhaps 3-5% of the EXP you gain (depending how often you have to craft new wands) Besides - what else is there for a Wizard to spend money on? Platemail?

Heighten Spell is good - basically it allows you to cast a spell as if it was a higher level. Nice if you needed one more level (x) slot, and you had a spare slot in (x+1)

Extend Spell is REALLY good. Double duration of Haste, Bull's Strength, Mirror Image, Prot from Whatever, Summon Whatever... even double duration on good old Melf's Acid Arrow is good. (Especially vs trolls, which I imgaine are getting to be about the right level for your party.)

Regarding your spell selection : you're lacking a cold damage spell and an acid damage one. And they can be needed.

-Jam

	10-03-2004 16:47									#10
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I think that I might have lesser Cold Orb

and maybe an acid spell too

JM

	10-03-2004 16:56									#11
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Ok, crafting costs (to convince you its a good deal)

A 5th-level wand of fireballs.

Standard SHOP VALUE = 5 (caster level) x 3 (spell level) x 750 = 11250. gp

This would cost you 50% of that to make = 5625 gp
And also 4% of the value in EXP = 450

Not a bad deal for a wand that let's you cast FIFTY fireballs.

And yes, you may think its a lot of money and EXP, but you can craft two, and sell one to make the money back And you can EASILY get 450 EXP back if you have 50 fireballs-on-a-stick. Wands are sweet.

-Jam

	10-03-2004 17:02									#12
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any suggested general feats?

JM

	10-03-2004 17:07									#13
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if I am correct I can pick up item creation or metamagic feats for the metamagic pick (this is for the Incantrix bonus feat)

but cannot choose one for the general feat

so what general feat should I pick? I am thinking skill focus: spellcraft or dodge

JM

	10-03-2004 17:10									#14
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Improved Initiative is a MUST HAVE - how did I forget that?

Fireball them ALL before they can even react Its good to have the first move in any round.

-Jam

	10-03-2004 17:20									#15
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so right now I am thinking

5 Wizard
10 Incantrix
3 archmage (mastery of elements, mastery of shaping, mastery of counterspelling)
2 bladesinger (not real sure about this)
than epic Incantrix and Elven High Mage

Jon Miller

	10-03-2004 17:22									#16
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Does your GM allow more than one PrC?

That's just evil cheese.

-Jam

	10-03-2004 17:29									#17
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I think so (nowhere does it suggest that you should be allowed only 1, if you reach a high enough level I don't see why 2 (or more) might not be proper)

but it all depends on proper training and the like

it might be a while before I can find someone to teach me how to be an incantrix

I think that the bladesinger might be evil cheese (but mostly because my character really is not a fighter), don't think that the archmage and incantrix are

of course, we will probably only be playing to level 15 or so tops

JM

	10-03-2004 19:22									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Improved Initiative is a MUST HAVE - how did I forget that? Fireball them ALL before they can even react Its good to have the first move in any round. -Jam

Ha! I am vindicated.

	11-03-2004 00:00									#19
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Didn't you say Lightning Reflexes? That's the bonus on reflex saves

Yesh, but I see what y'meant.

-Jam

	11-03-2004 00:28									#20
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I am thinking combat expertise right now

the +5 to AC is notthing to shake a stick at (usually I am equiped with a longsword or a light crossbow)

JM

	11-03-2004 00:36									#21
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for bladesinger I need

still spell : metamagic
expertise : general
weapon focus longsword : general
dodge : general

I think that I want skill focus spellcraft, but not until later (level 18 or so, it is a general feat)

I am also thinking about metamagic feats of
extend spell
quicken spell
chain spell (or something like that)

so if I do 10 Incantrix, 2 Bladesinger, 3 Archmage (after now)

so I will pick up 4 metamagic feats, 5 general feats before level 19

Jon Miller

	11-03-2004 03:12									#22
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I thought divination was legal as a penalty when you're expected to give up two schools. No way would I lose two of the majors!

For instance in the 3.0 PHB it says to specialise Abjuration you give up one of Conj, Enchant, Evoke, Illusion or Transmute. Alternatively lose both Divination and Necromancy.

	11-03-2004 03:23									#23
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Do you mean Incantatrix?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010803b

I would probably get rid of Evocation, 3rd level is fine, or work your way up to 4th to get cone of cold before switching out. Divination is awesome for an Abjurer, allowing you to see and know what you are looking at.

You have to keep alteration, mainly since it has a ton of huge spells... Then I would get rid of Illusion or Necromancy.

Feats; take meta feats to no end, as well as ones that would make you a better fighter. As an abjurer you will eventually not have to worry about HPs...

I think everything is good. Learn a lot of evocation spells before you do this. Then, later down the road take the wand feat to load these spells into so that you don't have to memorize them and concentrate on Abjuration and Divination spells, along with Alteration. Load up on meta feats (which will come with the Incantatrix), as well as physical feats to avoid and increase damage.

	11-03-2004 03:46									#24
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Grumbold, you're right, but they changed it in 3.5 to make specialist wizards worse.

-Jam

	11-03-2004 04:32									#25
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yeah, that is the prestige class

what would you recommend as feats?

different ones than what I am looking at?

would you drop the whole bladesinger idea?

Jon Miller

	11-03-2004 07:42									#26
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it seems like I just don't have enough metamagic choices

EMPOWER SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

ENLARGE SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of close, medium, or long to increase its range by 100%. An enlarged spell with a range of close now has a range of 50 ft. + 5 ft./level, while medium-range spells have a range of 200 ft. + 20 ft./level and long-range spells have a range of 800 ft. + 80 ft./level. An enlarged spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.
Spells whose ranges are not defined by distance, as well as spells whose ranges are not close, medium, or long, do not have increased ranges.

EXTEND SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat. An extended spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.

HEIGHTEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.

MAXIMIZE SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. A maximized spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.
An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result.

QUICKEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.

SILENT SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.
Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat.

STILL SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A stilled spell can be cast with no somatic components.
Spells without somatic components are not affected. A stilled spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.

WIDEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: You can alter a burst, emanation, line, or spread shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell’s area increase by 100%.A widened spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.
Spells that do not have an area of one of these four sorts are not affected by this feat.

since Incantrix's have

Improved Metamagic (Su): At 8th level, the incantatrix has mastered metamagic to such an extent that whenever she uses a metamagic feat, the feat's level increase upon a spell is reduced by one (this can't reduce an increase to less than one level, or less than zero levels if the increase is already +0). For example, an incantatrix wizard could prepare a quickened fireball as a 6th-level spell instead of a 7th-level spell

I think that I want empower or maximise (or other multiple increase metamagics)

JOn Miller

	11-03-2004 08:33									#27
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Quicken.

	11-03-2004 10:51									#28
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Your familiar is a Toad?

Awesome!

I've always liked Kinopio!

	11-03-2004 10:55									#29
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I also have

resist energy (instead of resist elements)
see invisibility
magic weapon
protection from evil
mage armor

lesser cold orb
invisibility
charm person
negative energy ray ? (don't remember)
mount
tenser's floating disc

JM

	11-03-2004 12:36									#30
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quote: it seems like I just don't have enough metamagic choices

Jon, you can certainly take the metamagic feats instead of "general" ones. You can take ANY feat you have the prereqs. for as a "general" feat.

BUT for your "metamagic" feats (levels 5,10,15,20???) you have to take wizard feats. These include all the ones above + all the crafting feats + all the school focus feats + some others too.

Oh, and even with the cheese of an Incantrix, "quicken spell" still blows. 3 or 4 levels higher, and doesn't even raise the casting level.

-Jam