16-03-2004 04:30									#61
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it's actually entertaining to hear that excuse now... I was mad at first because stupidity REALLY makes me mad (which explains some of my self-loathing I suppose ) but this "terrorists have won" thing is really entertaining now... in the sense that it's entertaining watching retarded kids play in traffic

	16-03-2004 04:31									#62
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd My point was that if someone can firmly say that something as huge and consequential as a terrorist attack would never be able to influence their vote, than there is nothing that can.

The appearance of a new political party that better matches my views might. Neither the Greens nor the NDP match them perfectly.

	16-03-2004 04:36									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo The terrorists won. Say goodbye to the hardline stance of Aznar. That is gone. Say goodbye to the pro-free market reforms, that is gone.

Good riddance

	16-03-2004 04:39									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Good riddance

Good riddance? You mean you want no jobs and no prosperity? That's stupid. Typical communist.

	16-03-2004 04:42									#65
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I happen not to think that jobs and economic prosperity are linked with free market policies.

And I happen not to think that security is linked with hardline policies.

I am damn glad the PP lost. Because I think Spanish policies will be better with a social-democratic government, even as half-assed as the PSOE, than with conservative nutbags such as the PP.

	16-03-2004 04:44									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I happen not to think that jobs and economic prosperity are linked with free market policies.

Okay look I have no problem with people preaching leftist positions on social issues... those are understandable actually...

But there is no alternative to free market capitalism. Zippo, none.

quote: I am damn glad the PP lost.

You are also damn glad that Al Qaeda won too right? Congrats, why don't you go join Al Qaeda or something? You're no better than a terrorist.

	16-03-2004 04:51									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo But there is no alternative to free market capitalism. Zippo, none.

Free market capitalism is just as much a fantasy as communism. Regulated capitalism is the only thing that works.

quote: You are also damn glad that Al Qaeda won too right? Congrats, why don't you go join Al Qaeda or something? You're no better than a terrorist.

What did the Al Qaeda win?

	16-03-2004 04:51									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo You are also damn glad that Al Qaeda won too right? Congrats, why don't you go join Al Qaeda or something? You're no better than a terrorist.

Thanks Fez, you made my day

	16-03-2004 05:03									#69
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quote: What did the Al Qaeda win?

The hearts and minds of the people.

	16-03-2004 05:10									#70
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i thought berlusconi only sent 3000.

fez, quit being such a defeatist.

jeebus, you and ned both.

	16-03-2004 05:17									#71
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The interesting thing is, when the US has it's big troop rotation, they plan to cut the number of US troops by at least 10,000. Which means Bush is 6 times weaker on terror at least as the PSOE, who will only pull out 1300, and that is if no UN mandate is given. Or so it seems by the arithmatic of the doubters.

	16-03-2004 05:19									#72
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If we are going to use the "math of the doubters," can we compare the draw down as a percentage of the total troops that were there to begin with?

	16-03-2004 05:21									#73
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Yes-right now, it is definite the US will remove like 9-10% of forces. Right now, it is NOT definate the Spaniards will withdraw any, if the US goes to the UN.

Yup, that coward Bush.

	16-03-2004 05:24									#74
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if another attack happens on the US before election time, bush has to lose. His actions didnt do a damn thing. the WOT didnt or doesnt work.

	16-03-2004 06:31									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue If Aznar, Blair and Bush are all removed from their offices on this issue, the terrorists will have won. So for this I hope Bush gets another term, and Blair too. Hopefully by then the terrorist threat will be diminished.

And the economy and civil liberties will be finished.

And we all know that if Kerry wins we'll all be speaking arabic and reading the Koran, right? If this wasn't a blatant troll I'd argue with you. Because it is I will merely mock you contemptuosly.

	16-03-2004 06:34									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo But there is no alternative to free market capitalism. Zippo, none.

And the feudal lords said there was no alternative to feudalism ...

And the mercantilists said there was no alternative to mercantilism ...

Blah, blah, blah ...

	16-03-2004 06:35									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Regardless of whether you say you will change your views or not, the results in Spain guarantee that al Qaeda will attack or attempt to attack across the world to influence elections in its favor.

I'm tiring of this. The Left thinks there are other ways than bombs to fight terrorism. Everyone agrees on the fact that we should fight terrorism, but not on how it should be done.

	16-03-2004 06:54									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris I'm tiring of this. The Left thinks there are other ways than bombs to fight terrorism. Everyone agrees on the fact that we should fight terrorism, but not on how it should be done.

The reason the wingnuts keep up this line is because they got nothing. The biggest terrorist attacks in the US (9/11) and Spain happened on their watch. The failures were theirs. So they got to push the "tough" line in order to conceal the fact that they blew it on the attacks.

They are fighting WWII all over again. The problem is that Al Qaida is fighting a new sort of asymmetric war. We need a change of leadership and method to beat al Qaida - not a missle defense system.

	16-03-2004 07:05									#79
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar The reason the wingnuts keep up this line is because they got nothing. The biggest terrorist attacks in the US (9/11) and Spain happened on their watch. The failures were theirs. So they got to push the "tough" line in order to conceal the fact that they blew it on the attacks.

If you insist on pushing that line we're forced to deal with the abject failiures of the Clinton Administration at dealing with this issue despite numerous attacks.

	16-03-2004 08:11									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed and do you think that the spin for both sides will actually change things at all? i personally don't. the election is contentious enough as it is, with battle lines already drawn and core supporters already set. the vast middle is already disgusted with both sides, and you can probably expect a pretty equal division if nothing untoward is revealed about either candidate, bombing or no bombing. you'll have rightists saying kerry will have more of the same. you'll have leftists saying bush will have more of the same. and neither of them will have brains enough to stfu and deal with the mess without politicizing it for their own ends.

Post of the day.

	16-03-2004 08:17									#81
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I think that an incident like the attack in Spain would have a very different effect on the American people. It might very well tip the odds more in President Bush's favor.

	16-03-2004 08:20									#82
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No

	16-03-2004 10:58									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris I'm tiring of this. The Left thinks there are other ways than bombs to fight terrorism. Everyone agrees on the fact that we should fight terrorism, but not on how it should be done.

Well one thing that is very clear is that the left does not believe that bringing democracy to Iraq will help in the war on al Qaeda -- that somehow the war on al Qaeda has nothing to do Iraq. This is evidenced by the statement of the new Spanish Prime Minister that he will pull Spanish troops of Iraq by June 30. The left outside the United States and some in the United States are willing to unilaterally pull out of Iraq and leave that fledgling democracy to its fate.

Obviously, al Qaeda believes that Iraq is central its their cause. The attack in Spain illustrates that their strategy now is too divide and conquer.

Unfortunately, that strategy seems to be working. I will be interesting to see whether Kerry does anything to help fix this and get the Spanish back on board. Obviously the new Spanish Prime Minister will not listen to George Bush.

	16-03-2004 15:39									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I think that an incident like the attack in Spain would have a very different effect on the American people. It might very well tip the odds more in President Bush's favor.

It depends how Dubya handles the crisis. If he blatantly lies and tries to weasel out of it, many Americans will want to oust the guy trying to milk political profit from a nationwide catastrophe.

	16-03-2004 15:45									#85
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"I think that an incident like the attack in Spain would have a very different effect on the American people. It might very well tip the odds more in President Bush's favor."

Yes, which makes it less likely that the next terrorist attack will be in the US, and probably more likely in Europe. Spain's voters have now made all of us targets with their succumbing to terror.

	16-03-2004 18:08									#86
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If we are going to use the "math of the doubters," can we compare the draw down as a percentage of the total troops that were there to begin with?

What's the point of doing that? It doesn't matter to Iraq what percentage of their troops each country has in, what matters is the hard numbers of troops there to perform the necessary tasks. Losing 1,300 is bad, but losing 10,000 is far, far worse.

	16-03-2004 19:18									#87
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He wasn't talking about Iraq.

	16-03-2004 19:48									#88
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc He wasn't talking about Iraq.

quote: Originally posted by GePap The interesting thing is, when the US has it's big troop rotation, they plan to cut the number of US troops by at least 10,000. Which means Bush is 6 times weaker on terror at least as the PSOE, who will only pull out 1300, and that is if no UN mandate is given. Or so it seems by the arithmatic of the doubters.

Since the 1300 referenced above is clearly referring to PSOE's withdrawal from Iraq, I don't see where you're getting this from.

	16-03-2004 19:54									#89
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Boris: DD tried to be a smartass like always, but his attempt got shot down...

	16-03-2004 20:06									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Sava it's actually entertaining to hear that excuse now... I was mad at first because stupidity REALLY makes me mad (which explains some of my self-loathing I suppose ) but this "terrorists have won" thing is really entertaining now... in the sense that it's entertaining watching retarded kids play in traffic

I agree. This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard in my life..

It's the politics of fear-mongering we've all come to know and love from the Bush cabal. If it ever came to the point that people were prevented from voting their TRUE conscience out of fear of possible future attacks, then the terrorists HAVE truly won