16-03-2004 10:26									#1
	Do we go forward with the loan to CGN? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

With the arrival of the save, we have discovered that GWT now owns Agincourt.

As the details come in, they will be posted to this thread.

Miccofl has been appointed ambassador to Apolyton and this evening in chat he dropped in and posted to an idle BigFree and Trip:

quote: [15:55] miccofl: It seems I am the new ambassador to Apolyton [17:13] miccofl: My first official act as Ambassador is to query the availability of the previously mentioned loan. Are the funds still available and what are the terms? [17:28] »»» Quit: Trip : Ping timeout [17:29] miccofl: well, that was encouraging - not

Miccofl needs an answer.

Our team has UNANIMOUSLY agreed in the past to give a loan to CGN in this official poll

And discussion has previously been held in details of the CGN loan thread.

Do we now change our mind? Given the change in circumstances, we should at least discuss our decision again.

Therefore, this thread and this poll needed to be created. PLEASE post your thoughts first and come back later on to vote in this poll.


--Togas

	16-03-2004 10:35									#2
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My thoughts:

It would be extremely rude of us to back out now. We knew this could happen. We didn't condition our gift of funds to their keeping the chokepoint. We wanted to get muskets to that city before the GWT attack, but it wasn't possible, it seems.

However, we also know the writing is on the wall. Do we throw away our gold on CGN? As coldhearted as that may sound, it may be in our best interest.

Ultimately, we'll get SOMETHING back for our loan. We'll get some gold out of CGN before they collapse, and we may be able to get their workers gifted to us as repayment. Frankly, I'd much rather have the workers than gold, myself. We'll also get their continued loyalty and show them support in a time when they desperately need it.

And what is that worth? For starters, we keep them around, keep them fighting, and hope they slow down GWT as much as possible while we continue our rapid build up. We hurt GWT who has to fight Muskets instead of pikes. We also buy a long-term friend that we can gift a city to, gift techs to, and earn ourselves a free Industrial and Modern Ages tech.

We also get their UN vote.

Alltogether, I think the postivies outweigh the cost.

And I urge Apolyton to stand by our previous decision to go forward with this loan.

--Togas

	16-03-2004 10:38									#3
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One More Thing...

Miccofl needs loan information. We need to both reaffirm our commitment and agree on the terms.

I request that we resolve this loan thing within the next 48 hours, and that the Consuls post their decision on what would be appropriate for the terms.

I'll then forward the information to miccofl myself.

--Togas

	16-03-2004 10:45									#4
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I'd be willing to part with 300g as an initial offer, which is enough for 5 Muskets. Their free Industrial and Modern techs are certainly worth more than that, but we still need gold in order to do rushes, deficit research and upgrades. With GWT becoming a true superpower we'll need all that we have to resist their eventual invasion...

	16-03-2004 11:12									#5
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Thank you for posting this thread, Togas.

	16-03-2004 11:31									#6
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I'd like to hear what their plan is but I'd be willing to give them the 600 needed to get 10 Muskets. If my gues is correct, it cost GWT more than a few units to take Agincourt this turn. They will not be advancing past Waterloo as was hypothesized. I think we should help them set up a new plan to control the chokes with Muskets with one of the hold points being at 3-3-2 of Agincourt and the other two at "Perris" and 3-2 of "Perris."

	16-03-2004 11:48									#7
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Agreed, let's keep our promises. Personally, I believe if GWT rolls over CGN, keeping or losing 600g on our part will make very little difference in the long run...

So, full amount (600g?) for me.

	16-03-2004 13:28									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"Give 'em the works."

-Nimitz, June '42.

Yes, 600g if necessary. GWT must be stopped and it would be far better for us if CGN at least managed to stop them cold for a while (hopefully).

	16-03-2004 15:22									#9
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Greatest Moments in Chat:

miccofl: "We need Money!"
Trip : Ping timeout ...


Hmm...

	16-03-2004 16:32									#10
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Yes. Ask CFC to chip in some as well, if possible.

	16-03-2004 17:05									#11
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Are they willing to accept a city on our continent and give us their free techs ?

	16-03-2004 18:31									#12
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Let's give them some money.

But for the record, HOW IN THE HELL DID GWT TAKE AGINCOURT ALREADY?!?!?!?

I appear to have missed a few things.

-Arrian

p.s. I think we should consider drawing up an evacuation plan for CGN. They're going down, folks.

	16-03-2004 18:44									#13
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Give them the money, we've already damaged our word in this game by the backstab on GCA (necessarily of course), keeping our word with this loan despite the appearance of them losing can only help our long term reputation (which does extend past this game).


Beyond that, I do think we stand to get our money's worth even if they ultimately lose. Delaying GWT finishing their war by 10 turns is probally worth it in causing them lost units and revenue alone.

I personally would not bring up gifting CGN a city for free techs or getting workers from them yet. I think its reasonable to expect they would do that, but lets hold off on the negativity with them until its apparant to everyone (most of all them) that they are going to eventually lose.

	16-03-2004 20:23									#14
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600 g now

	16-03-2004 21:14									#15
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Greatest Moments in Chat: miccofl: "We need Money!" Trip : Ping timeout ... Hmm...

Even at the Embassy things go wrong sometimes.

As for the loan, I think that the benefits definately outwaigh the costs, so a loan is fine for me. Trip has put a point. We could do a 300 gold loan now and again 300 some turns later, but that should then only be an optiion if that doesn't significantly weaken CGN compared to a not splitted loan of 600 gold right now.

There is no need to fear diplomatic problems with GWT as long as CGN members will not openly talk about it. And then we can still say that they are getting support from GCA.

Aidun

	16-03-2004 22:06									#16
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quote: I personally would not bring up gifting CGN a city for free techs or getting workers from them yet. I think its reasonable to expect they would do that, but lets hold off on the negativity with them until its apparant to everyone (most of all them) that they are going to eventually lose.

Agreed. What I would like is to see internal discussion here about what we might (will) propose to them if/when the time is right.

If we get our ducks in a row now, we can move fast when speed may be of the essence. Basically, we need to have a discussion about : 1) where would we put CGN? 2) what would we want them to do as they are falling? Build workers and salvage as much pop as they can, or build/rush units and try to inflict as many casualties on GWT and slow them down as much as they can?

Also, if memory serves, we convinced GCA to disband 1/2 of the units they teleported. I assume that GWT/GCA will demand the same of CGN. Keep that in mind.

-Arrian

	16-03-2004 22:57									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Also, if memory serves, we convinced GCA to disband 1/2 of the units they teleported. I assume that GWT/GCA will demand the same of CGN. Keep that in mind. -Arrian

That deal fell through IIRC when GWT backed out of asking for a replay of turns. The deal with GCA hinged greatly on replaying the turns so it never happened.

As to giving CGN the gold...do it.

	17-03-2004 08:24									#18
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I doubt we teleport any CGN units anyways except for workers and that would be through the in game trading mechanisms.

Any other units they have are much better served sitting on a hill (hopefully near the beach) forcing GWT to sacrafice as much as possible to eliminate any future threat of a landing. Heck it might even be better to build a fort on a mountain by the coast than to use a city just for the defense bonus. Also unless I'm mistaken artillery can't remove a fort like they can city walls