26-03-2004 17:26									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Agathon They had him in prison and let him out. Look the guy was a quadraplegic who was so far gone that he didn't even notice the last time rockets hit the building he was in.

Boohoohoo! Poor genocidal maniac.

	26-03-2004 17:41									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Are you seriously asking that we, during war time, put every combatant on trial before conducting military operations?!

Not at all. Just fostering the discussion.

Terrorist, like Yassin, who unequivocaly inspire terrorism from their followers, are legitimate targets anywhere in the world IMO. Yasin has continuously promoted violence and has never looked for a peaceful solution. Israel's timing, not their action, is the only question in my mind.

	26-03-2004 18:42									#63
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Time to put her to sleep.

The UN is a waste of taxpayer's money. And I'm sure that real estate in New York could be put to better use.

	26-03-2004 18:43									#64
	Got spare money?

Not surprised at all by this.

Next time the US wants a unanimous UN vote, it's really going to have to kiss arse to get it.

Also, those that support violence on the Israeli side are now fair game for assassination.

	26-03-2004 18:47									#65
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Are you seriously asking that we, during war time, put every combatant on trial before conducting military operations?!

Are you seriously suggesting that a septegenarian paraplegic is a combatant?

	26-03-2004 18:50									#66
	Support Apolyton

Yes.

	26-03-2004 18:51									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Handicaps do not, in anyway, absolve someone of their past crimes.

	26-03-2004 18:54									#68
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I usually don't agree when the USA sides with Israel, in fact I think the USA's one-sided attitude to the Israeli-Palaestinian conflict makes any resolution about Isreal brought before the UNSC a joke, but for once they've got it spot on. This man was a terrorist, who gave the Palestinians religious justification for suicide bombings and other heinous acts.

I can't see what's the difference between this guy and Osama. If the USA killed Bin Laden the same way, there would be no/very little complaints from the rest of the world.

The main reason however that I support the US in their decision here is that a vote condemning this action by Israel would confer a great deal more legitimacy on Hamas, and further increase its power. The Israelis have the PA to negotiate with. Even though they're far from perfect, I'd prefer to see them as the voice of the Palestinian people than Hamas.

Don't get me wrong, I wish there were another solution, but there isn't enough political will on either side at the moment to accomplish this.

	26-03-2004 19:10									#69
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Verto Handicaps do not, in anyway, absolve someone of their past crimes.

FOR FVCKS SAKE!

I did not even imply absolution.

THE MAN IS NOT A COMBATANT!!!

PLATO

quote: Yasin has continuously promoted violence and has never looked for a peaceful solution.

You can say the same thing about Dubya.

Question for Americans?
Why is it that if a civillian trespasses on your property, and you think they might mean you ill, you are allowed to use deadly force against them.

But if an Israeli trespasses on and even confiscates Palestinian property, they are not?

	26-03-2004 19:20									#70
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I disapprove or Israel's actions in assasinating Yassin. He shoudl have been captured and put on trial rather than being made into a martyr. If he would have been found guilty (as I am sure he would have) he should have been sent to prison like any other murderer.

However, I agree with the US using its veto to block this. The condemnation is very one-sided, and does nothing to help bring a constructive resolution, but instead only inflames things further.

	26-03-2004 19:37									#71
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My only question is this-if Hamas is able to assasinate Sharon, or any other cabinet members, or Israeli military commanderd, though in the process they also happen to kill a few civilians:

Will people here condenm that as an act of terrorism?

	26-03-2004 19:40									#72
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by GePap My only question is this-if Hamas is able to assasinate Sharon, or any other cabinet members, or Israeli military commanderd, though in the process they also happen to kill a few civilians: Will people here condenm that as an act of terrorism?

Personally, yes. I do not think any acts of violence will further the cause of peace in Israel.

I wasn't surprised when the Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi was whacked... but I certainly didn't think it was a move for peace either.

	26-03-2004 20:15									#73
	Got spare money?

Could someone explain the meaningful difference between this man and OBL?

	26-03-2004 20:16									#74
	Tired of ads?

Beat me to it again Dino.

	26-03-2004 20:19									#75
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Could someone explain the meaningful difference between this man and OBL?

I'm guessing heart rate here.

	26-03-2004 20:19									#76
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Killing the trained leadership really does slow down terror attacks as the terrorists are forced to find and train new leaders.

Do you NEED leadership to strap a bomb to your pants and blow a bus to smithereens?

	26-03-2004 20:20									#77
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe I'm guessing heart rate here.

Fair point.

	26-03-2004 20:22									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

BUt you know I'm all about equality. No reason they shouldn't be equal.

	26-03-2004 20:24									#79
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Could someone explain the meaningful difference between this man and OBL?

Sure. OBL is a war hero to many Muslims, and has actively killed many infidels. After the 1991 Gulf War, when the US and other infidel nations occuped the Holy places of Islam, he declared war on the infidel, by the means of mass terror. His most often repeated demand is for all infidels to be removed from Saudi Arabia.

Yassin was a co-founder of Hamas, a group dedicated to the salvation of Palestine. In addition to its many suicide bombings of Israeli targets of opportunity, it performs much charitable work in the occupied territories. His most often repeated demand was for the destruction of Israel.

The difference is, OBL is an active armed vereran, the other was an old man who cannot use his arms and legs and has never fired a weapon in his life.

Now d'you dig it?

	26-03-2004 20:29									#80
	Increase Your PM Length

Not really. The only differences you highlighted were charity work (Al Capone did that too.) and small focus of targets. Neither of which strike me as being all that relevent.

	26-03-2004 20:31									#81
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OBL did charity work in Afghanistan. Built schools helped pay off the locals that kinda thing.

	26-03-2004 20:59									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Could someone explain the meaningful difference between this man and OBL?

If The US had the ability to capture him, they would, and try him. That is one

Second-there are questions about how much Yassin knew about any one attack, were he was in the operational chain. There IS a difference between urging violence, advocating it, and actually taking hand in planning violence. You can justify killing someone who is part of the operational chain, and that killing him will disrupt attacks in the works. IF killing someone does not remove any imminent threat, then your justification for assasination is far far smaller-if it exists at all.

	26-03-2004 21:09									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

One could argue similarly that OBL may or may not have operational impact in current AQ operations.

	26-03-2004 21:15									#84
	Inflate your Upload Space

OBL denied involvement in 9-11.

	26-03-2004 21:16									#85
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe One could argue similarly that OBL may or may not have operational impact in current AQ operations.

And I would argue it is far more important and effective for us to capture him than simply kill him.

Plus I think it is clear, even if now due to ciscumstances he can;t control events, he ran training camps-he lived in training camps: how could you argue he is not part of the setting up of attacks? Yassin though, much tougher. And israel does not even really say he was part of the operational side.

	26-03-2004 21:24									#86
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by GePap IF killing someone does not remove any imminent threat, then your justification for assasination is far far smaller-if it exists at all.

Your point for deciding an assasination was the current imminent threat. His past misdoings and culpability for operational aspects have little to do with the decision to assasinate if he is not an imminent threat today.

So again, OBL may or may not be an imminent threat but more a rabble rouser similar to Yassin.


Which raises a question "What's the meaningful difference between Yassin and OBL?"

	26-03-2004 22:07									#87
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I disapprove or Israel's actions in assasinating Yassin. He shoudl have been captured and put on trial rather than being made into a martyr. If he would have been found guilty (as I am sure he would have) he should have been sent to prison like any other murderer. However, I agree with the US using its veto to block this. The condemnation is very one-sided, and does nothing to help bring a constructive resolution, but instead only inflames things further.

*jaw drops*

	26-03-2004 22:19									#88
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Which raises a question "What's the meaningful difference between Yassin and OBL?"

The past makes a HUGE difference-after all, are you saying a man can be killed solely for inciting violence by his words? Israel killed him becuase of his past-it is then disingeneous for you to say the past does not matter.

The US can show with more confidence Osama knew and helped plan specific plots, the same can not be said of Yassin. Which means that while Osama may be unable to do mcuh now due to circumstance, IF he did get a chance to get back to his buddies, he could again help orchestrate. Yassin was able to speak to his buddies-the question being, did he ever orchestrate attacks-have operational knowledge of them, so forth and so on. Yassin served the same purpose in an Israeli jail as he did out in the street-the same CAN'T be said of Osama.

And as I said before, I think the US should do everything in its power to capture, NOT kill Osama.

	26-03-2004 22:25									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Because he could be a source of intell we would value. If such we're not the case, we wouldn't care either way.

	26-03-2004 22:32									#90
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Azazel That's the way it works, Charlie. If they want to have a claim that they are really cool guerilla freedom fighters, they must be them, and not target civilians. Sheesh, the lengths you go to defend suicide bombings are staggering. Noone said that their weapons and training were better. Guerillas rarely, if ever get that.

I'm not defending them, I'm ridiculizing those who think Tsahal is doing better things.

quote: Why won't we leave? a) In the Gaza Strip, we do plan to leave ( while I personally don't agree with it, I think it would be better if we did in an agreement with the palestinians) b) generally, why do you think it's ok to displace hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes if they're Israelis, and not if they're palestinians?

You don't leave, no peace, ever. Terrorism for ever, and the assurance that other Arab countries would strike Israel at the first sign of weakness.
You've got the wealth, the military, the educated people. You are the side that can change things the most rapidly.

Of course, everyone knows it's better to build a fascist state, and sacrifice some of your youth for thousands of Palestinians, stuck inside an illegal wall, with no access to water, and economic strangulation.