30-03-2004 04:53									#31
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Hope it works itself out soon. You seem like a pretty decent and even tempered guy to me and you don't deserve this. Having said that, such people are better placed than most to deal with such things.

You are better off either way, it's the waiting and uncertainty about a decision that is the worst rather than what actually happens - insecurity is the #1 happiness killer IMHO.

If you do decide to split then it's reasonable to think that it wouldn't have worked; on the other hand, if she stays and goes through with it, that more likely says that there is a stable future to the relationship.

Meanwhile, it is hard not to (human nature), but try not to worry about things that you have little power over. This should be a general rule for everyone to live by, even though we can't live up to it all the time.

That's what I did when my Dad was dying and other members of the family were worrying and trying to second guess everything - in the end it is wasted energy for the most part.

And PA - you, sir are a ****ing ******* for saying that.

	30-03-2004 06:51									#32
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****.
Know how it feels.

	30-03-2004 07:36									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Four years.

...

man, that sucks serious @zz

	30-03-2004 08:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by dv8ed Coming from the other side of it--most people, when really depressed, will start to feel this way even if they truly love the person they are with. There's often also a tendency to push the people who care about them away; if they no longer care about themselves, then being around people who do care about them hurts. It may well be linked to that, and have little to do with you. Was the idea of counseling for the two of you, or her alone?

Firstly, I'm truly sorry Guy.

Secondly, my first impulse was to think along the same lines as dv8ed. I'm familiar with it because I myself have pushed people away because my own depression was so overwhelming, including a girl who I had been wooing for over a year and had just started dating. I was just so depressed that I couldn't see myself pulling it off, despite every objective indicator telling me that she was finally mine. I hurt her, and eleven years after the fact still kick myself for throwing away that relationship I worked so hard to have in the first place.

I'm now trying to think what (if anything) would have allowed me to hang in. I suppose if Gabrielle (the aformentioned hotty) had somehow shown me that there was no way I could sink low enough for her to not want to be with me I might have relented. My fear was of dissappointing her, of having someone who I thought so highly of seeing me at my lowest. Perhaps your fiancee is also concerned that she will disappoint you. Being a doctor's wife (and moreso a resident's wife) is tough and challenging, especially in addition to starting another job and moving etc. A lot of stressors at once can push someone into a semi-suicide like this.

Do the counseling and see if she is serious about trying to work it out, or seems to have her mind made up and is going through the motions. Get the best counselor you can find and listen to their impressions. Good luck with this, and I hope it works out, as you seem to genuinely care for her.

	30-03-2004 08:21									#35
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Well just an upcoming wedding is enough to drive people nuts without all the other stuff on your plate its basically your last chance to second-guess so a lot of second-guessing naturally happens. A friend of mine fought all the time with his fiance right before the marriage and after that (and a very nice honeymoon) they were fine. What with the move and family problems on top of that I can see that sort of thing happening even if there isn't a long-term problem with the relationship. Just stick in there and weather it the best you can I guess.

	30-03-2004 08:27									#36
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Sorry to hear this, Guy. I have a feeling that things will turn out all right; I hope I'm correct. Best of luck.

	30-03-2004 08:32									#37
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good luck.

hang in there, guy.

Last edited by asleepathewheel on 30-03-2004 at 08:51

	30-03-2004 08:45									#38
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Depression is terrible.

I hope for her sake she finds a way out of the psychological hole.

For your sake, keep in mind the counselor's advice for you as a couple but also for you to cope as well. It's tough when you love someone and something like this comes up. You may want to think about your own private counseling to cope with the situation as well.

Best of luck.

	30-03-2004 08:52									#39
	Tired of ads?

Try all you can to help her, and your relationship...

Best of luck to you.

	30-03-2004 08:55									#40
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Good luck.

Whatever happens in the end, I hope it works out for the best for both of you.

	30-03-2004 09:26									#41
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go to the couselor..
though..and i say this from experience...i wonder if someday this extreme hurt will cause your own feelings to fade. it did with me..my first "love"..we were pretty much engaged...then he pulled the carpet from under me.. and i was devastated. eventually, he came back and i tried it again with him..but things weren't the same. eventually everything for him died in me and it did all start with that one big bang.
i hope that doesn't happen to you (although i am glad it happened to me) if you love her as much as i think you do.
all i can say is go to the couselor..be sure to get your own feelings off your chest....hang in there..take one day at a time.

	30-03-2004 14:57									#42
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"And PA - you, sir are a ****ing ******* for saying that."

Someone had to say it and be realistic.

	30-03-2004 15:28									#43
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It is a hard thing to hear. You have my sympathy.

Maybe the counselling will help. And maybe putting the plans for a wedding on hold will take some of the stress out of the situation.

For what little it is worth my experience of women is that if you are now active and enthusiastic about the things that need to be done to achieve your move that will put you into the best possible light with her. Immediately after my wife told me that she did not wish to live with me any more I went through a period where I was very active in sorting out all the things that needed to be done to disentangle our affairs and for her to set up a new home. And that led to us having what can best be described as an affaire which lasted for about two to three years while we were arranging the separation and immediately afterwards.

Maybe she felt better after making her decision and acting on it but I rather think she was just reminded about what she had seen in me in the first place.

Anyway it certainly made me feel a bit better about things.

Maybe the best thing to do about your move is to invite her participation (in home hunting and so on) and to say that if she finishes up deciding you are not such a bad guy and coming too all well and good but if not, well you will at least be miserable in a bit more comfort after you move thanks to her help.

I'm not sure if it assists to say it but your lady is far from alone in acting as she is. When long lasting relationships are brought to an end it is virtually always the woman who makes the decision to end it. I don't know what is lacking for them and they do not know that themselves. But it seems something often is.

Perhaps it is nothing more than that a a man likes comfortable and familiar clothes which he has worn many times whereas a woman likes clothes which are unfamiliar and new.

It is certainly not rooted solely (or even very much, I think) in the behaviour of men. You do see women splitting up with men who treat them badly but you also see women sticking by such guys. While there are plenty of cases where a woman kicks a partner into touch when the guy has done nothing other than try to be loving and considerate.

Looking back on my own marriage I have concluded that I did not initiate new things enough - I did not surprise her. So I should have done more to spice up our social life, inviting new people round and fixing up outings and so on. But whether that would have been enough for her not to have got fed up with our life together I don't really know.

Good luck, anyway. It is a man's part to woo a fair lady. And, happily, their hearts often soften towards us. So stay cheerful and maybe take my tip - look for a chance or two to surprise her.

	30-03-2004 15:58									#44
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Some Reasons why she could have sayed something like this:
- You pushed for marriage but she doesnt want to get married -> dont marry
- She feels you are not bringing enough in the relationship and subtle blackmails you to be more nice and stuff -> move on and dont call her again
- She wants to leave the relationship but be nice about it (oh you are such a nice guy, but my feelings for you have changed ... yadda ... lets be friends yadda yadda) -> move on and dont call her again

	30-03-2004 16:24									#45
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As it was said, she was honest with you. Not a luxury Skanky and I had. However it will turn out, best of luck to you.

Also, what Verres said.

	30-03-2004 16:30									#46
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Wow, Guy... this totally sucks. Definitely take the time you guys need to sort things out. I know it all hurts, but it's better to work through this before you're married than to have it crop up five years down the line.

Take care.

	30-03-2004 16:37									#47
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DanielXY:
I think you forgot one thing. She may be confused, and have shared her confusion. Women aren't creatures of rationality like we do. It is extremely common for them to speak while they think. As such, one shouldn't consider what they say as something calculated, especially in love matters.

Had Guynemer been going to marry a man, what you say would probably be relevant. But with a woman, it is very possible that her "I don't know" mean "I don't know" for real, and is a result of stress and confusion.

	30-03-2004 20:17									#48
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Yes, I agree Woman are most of the time confused and such with love matters and decide according to their emotions, etc.
But the blackmail thing as well as the usuall nice-breakup text is quite common I supose...

	30-03-2004 20:36									#49
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I want to thank all of you* for your support. It means a lot to me.



* = expect Spinky. **** off, *******.

	30-03-2004 21:06									#50
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The censor sure is working well!

	30-03-2004 23:11									#51
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hope things work out...

	30-03-2004 23:13									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue She's feckin someone else. Sorry.

Yeah -- because you have proof of this, right?


In any event, what a lame, tasteless joke.

	30-03-2004 23:20									#53
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@PA

If she is being honest, which I think she is, than she is probably not fecking someone else... Just goes to show how little PA really knows about women. They are evil and sinister, but in more of a "nails on the chalkboard" kind of way.

	31-03-2004 00:18									#54
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quote: Yeah -- because you have proof of this, right?

It's in the thread title.

	31-03-2004 01:04									#55
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Horseshit.

If you have even a shred of human decency, something which I doubt very much, you will stop posting in this thread.

	31-03-2004 01:07									#56
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Hey. Don't shoot the messenger. I feel for you.

	31-03-2004 01:19									#57
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Guy: why do you keep discussing with him? He only wants to drive you nuts, and there is no telling he actually thinks that way.

Just ignore him

	31-03-2004 01:30									#58
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No you don't. You have no idea what's going on in his fiancee's head. You can fall out of love without it involving someone else. Moreover, you can question the nature of your relationship, and your own feelings, without falling out of love.

Having jitters before your wedding is quite normal. When added to the ungodly stress she's under, and the conflict she'll feel from her depression, feeling like that seems almost understandable, in the sense that part of her could feel that she doesn't deserve to be with you, and part of her probably feels scared that she'll mess it up and hurt both you and her.

Given the circumstances that she's said this, the stress, the depression and the bereavement, she may be subconciously trying to convince herself that she doesn't love you, because she's scared, as a defensive/safety reaction.

The chances of someone feeling something like that having wishing a relationship with someone else is very small. Add to that that she wants to try to save things with counselling, and I would very much doubt that there is. I have seen people who are depressed going and having flings with someone else, as a defensive reaction, however that has been in different situations, and not when they show a willingness to try to make it work. I have never seen someone in that state of mind and relationship having another relationship. I think Spink is talking out of his ass. Not only is his accusations completely unfounded, the situation would seem to suggest it less likely. We're not shooting the messenger. You're stirring something that doesn't exist, and it appears trolling where you really shouldn't be. I don't think you're that malicious, so I think you're misguided, but either way, it doesn't help.

Guy, it absolutely sucks what you're going through. I hope I never have to feel like that, as I can't imagine the extent it would hurt. All I can advise is to be there for her and help her to see her feelings. Whatever happens from here, I would doubt that she means what she says, and as Verres said, she's almost certainly confused or scared and doesn't know what she's feeling. I don't know her, of course, but I would think the circumstances, and her depression, is more likely behind what she said than any true change of feeling. I wish you all the best.

	31-03-2004 01:32									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Guy: why do you keep discussing with him? He only wants to drive you nuts, and there is no telling he actually thinks that way. Just ignore him

Excellent advice. Trust me, the forum is a better experience this way.

-Arrian

	31-03-2004 15:48									#60
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Hi Guy, I hope everything turns out okay for you and your fiancee. It's probably just all the stress: two deaths, the pressure of a wedding, the medication and everything else. That's pretty heavy duty stuff. Hopefully you can work things out.

Last edited by Tingkai on 31-03-2004 at 16:17