01-04-2004 00:18									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Americans would do the same thing if Canada invaded their country. ...

Not really. Considering the fact that the only major casulties we'd suffer would be from their fleet of falling Sea Kings, we'd be occupying them.

	01-04-2004 00:28									#32
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I just saw the footage on TV. These people actually enjoyed mutilating, maiming, and hanging the corpses. Barbarians

In a war, civilians taking arms to kill foreigners and their collaborators is to be expected. But barbaric mobs dancing as they brutalize the corpses is not. Bunch of barbarians.

	01-04-2004 00:41									#33
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quote: Barbarians

stop your condescendant attitude, european swine.

	01-04-2004 00:45									#34
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savages

	01-04-2004 00:45									#35
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Is it true that this was not shown on American television?

	01-04-2004 00:46									#36
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Azazel,
Do have any of those extra D9's, maybe we need to remove a few homes so those so called "civilians" will think twice before doing that again in Fulluja.

	01-04-2004 00:46									#37
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I haven't seen it, but I don't watch much tv. All I saw was burning cars. I'm glad they didn't show any more cuz it was lunch.

	01-04-2004 00:47									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Azazel, Do have any of those extra D9's, maybe we need to remove a few homes so those so called "civilians" will think twice before doing that again in Fulluja.

See Arian.

	01-04-2004 00:48									#39
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They stopped that as a regular practice after Somalia, IIRC

	01-04-2004 00:58									#40
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Completely leaving aside for a moment the question of right and wrong:

The continuing guerrilla war against the occupying US forces is exactly what anyone should have predicted long before we even invaded.

It should come as little surprise that an occupied country will contain lots of people willing to risk their lives and even kill their own countrymen in an effort to drive out the invaders.

I'm not defending the actions at all. I'm just saying, it's monumental folly to go invading other countries and expect no one to fight back.

	01-04-2004 01:01									#41
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quote: Originally posted by debeest Completely leaving aside for a moment the question of right and wrong: The continuing guerrilla war against the occupying US forces is exactly what anyone should have predicted long before we even invaded. It should come as little surprise that an occupied country will contain lots of people willing to risk their lives and even kill their own countrymen in an effort to drive out the invaders. I'm not defending the actions at all. I'm just saying, it's monumental folly to go invading other countries and expect no one to fight back.

I think resistance in the Sunni triangle was expected. What wasnt expected was how badly the existing Iraqi police, and other Iraqi government institutions, would fall apart.

	01-04-2004 01:04									#42
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Wll you can understand that if 20 Iraqi police officers are bombed to death in one incedent, and no proper healthcare is offered to the survivors, that the willingness to be employed in such an endeavor is going to subside fairly quickly.

	01-04-2004 01:05									#43
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I agree this type of stuff should have been expected. When you plan for something, it's usually best to plan for the worst.

Che - point taken, although it's not a call for a massacre (but rather a call for a tactic I think is really stupid). Edit: two r's, Che, two r's. See:

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 01-04-2004 at 01:11

	01-04-2004 01:17									#44
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I tink the US would do well to increase pay for police, give them hefty benefits and coordinate better.

In terms of reprisals-I think that would be, well, counterproductive to say the least. House demolitions have not worked for the Israelis.

	01-04-2004 01:22									#45
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Agreed on paying the police. "You get what you pay for" after all.

-Arrian

	01-04-2004 01:25									#46
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I think resistance in the Sunni triangle was expected. What wasnt expected was how badly the existing Iraqi police, and other Iraqi government institutions, would fall apart.

When you destroy the government, by definition you get anarchy. An occupier can't just impose a government and expect anything different, especially when the occupier is as hated as the US is.

	01-04-2004 01:27									#47
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In Falluja,
It is super Anti American, so if you guys don't like demolition, maybe parking about 100 Abrams throughout the city would be an effective countermeasure, it works in Israel once they occupy a town.
I do have to agree with GePap that you need to pay the police better, but give them weapons or backup to do their job.

	01-04-2004 01:28									#48
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I think that the Arab perspective is that this whole thing in Falluja started with American soldiers killing 3 Iraqi demonstrators sometime in 2003, and then the situation has gradually escalated. The Americans said that some men in the crowd had begun shooting at them. So in reality it might have been started by maybe some ba'athist agents, and then the whole thing naturally evolved from there. I wonder if the American commander of the area needs to be replaced, or something?

	01-04-2004 01:35									#49
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quote: Azazel, Do have any of those extra D9's, maybe we need to remove a few homes so those so called "civilians" will think twice before doing that again in Fulluja.

just kill the bastards who did it.

	01-04-2004 01:37									#50
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quote: Originally posted by self biased you know... we should put saddam back in power in iraq. they don't like us? fine. can you imagine what shenanngians he'd get to if we let him go?

Actually, that is a good idea.

	01-04-2004 01:42									#51
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quote: Is it true that this was not shown on American television?

Probably won't be. I don't want to see it.

But I sure hope our boys in the intelligence services take a good look at the tape and haul in everybody who did it.

	01-04-2004 01:43									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo We must stay the course in Iraq and help the country get off its feet.

Say, you don't write for the onion, do you.

quote: Sadly, things like this will happen because people hate what America stands for.

I disagree. America does not stand for unprovoked wars of aggression based on lies and motivated to secure resources.

quote: "This will continue as long as foreigns try to directly control Iraq." Typical leftist crap. Profiting off deaths again.

I didn't realize that you considered "reality" to be "leftist crap". How profiting off death enters into that is just

	01-04-2004 01:44									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DanS But I sure hope our boys in the intelligence services take a good look at the tape and haul in everybody who did it.

I'm sure they're at it right now.

	01-04-2004 01:48									#54
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quote: We must stay the course in Iraq and help the country get off its feet.

	01-04-2004 01:49									#55
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By the way, there was a funeral held in Ireland around 1987, where two British MI-6 or SAS agents accidentally drove into the middle of the procession. Problem was, it was a funeral for an (assassinated?) IRA member.

The car was boxed in by other vehicles. The two agents pulled their guns. People jumped on the roof of the vehicle and started smashing the windows with steel bars. They grabbed the guns and pulled the agents from the car.

They beat them, stripped them naked, and beat them some more. Then they stood them, half-conscious, on top of a stone wall to the cheers of the crowd. Then they pulled them down and executed them with their own guns. Finally, they kicked away a priest who tried to administer last rites.

So don't give me any "Barbarian Arabs" stories. We all have lizard brains. Sometimes they emerge.

	01-04-2004 01:49									#56
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quote: Originally posted by debeest When you destroy the government, by definition you get anarchy. An occupier can't just impose a government and expect anything different, especially when the occupier is as hated as the US is.

On the contrary, there are numerous example in history where an occupier has been able to take advantage of local governing structures.

as for the US being hated, I suggest you read Oerdins thread, or just look at a variety of sources. All evidence suggests that the the Sunni arabs mainly hate us, some mistrust us, and a few like us. Among the Shiites a minority hate us, most mistrust us, and a considerable minority like us. Among the Kurds most like us. All in all not much worse, and probably better, than most occupations.

The number who hate us was reasonably easy to predict. Where the admin got it wrong was in the number who mistrust us, rather than like us, principally among the Shia. They didnt seem to quite realize how much our failure to come to the aid of the Shia in 1991 still rankled.

	01-04-2004 01:54									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc I think that the Arab perspective is that this whole thing in Falluja started with American soldiers killing 3 Iraqi demonstrators sometime in 2003, and then the situation has gradually escalated. The Americans said that some men in the crowd had begun shooting at them. So in reality it might have been started by maybe some ba'athist agents, and then the whole thing naturally evolved from there. I wonder if the American commander of the area needs to be replaced, or something?

the entire unit was replaced. the previous unit was the 82nd airborne, which is being rotated home. Theyre being replaced by the first marines. It seems some of the troubles in Fallujah are an attempt on the part of the baddies to take advantage of the switch.


in any case the 82nd was hardly occupying Falujah at all. From what ive read they made it a point to stay OUT of the city, and leave what little policing happened to the local Iraqi police. As a result of which Fallujah has become essentially a safe haven for Jihadis. It seems that the situation Fallujah is NOT the fruit of occupation and its excesses, but of insufficient control.

	01-04-2004 01:55									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Viking So don't give me any "Barbarian Arabs" stories.

I don't remember having said "Barbarian Arabs". I remember having said "Barbarians". It is not the whole ethnic group I characterized, but the perpetrators of this heinous act. Barbarians them, just like the Irish you're talking about

	01-04-2004 01:58									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I don't remember having said "Barbarian Arabs". I remember having said "Barbarians". It is not the whole ethnic group I characterized, but the perpetrators of this heinous act. Barbarians them, just like the Irish you're talking about

I agree with Spiffor.

	01-04-2004 01:59									#60
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Yeah, civlized people only kill! They don't take dead bodies and mutilate them, cause....well, cause while the killing part is fine, the mutilating bodies is just right out!